Acro eating flat worms... or not.

StrikerKratos · 12/03/2016, 06:20 PM

I used to have a lot of acro, a lot of acro, until about 4-5 months ago. I noticed one of my colonies had RTN. In an effort to stop it I first checked water parameters (don't ask me what they were, this was months ago) but nothing was out of the norm, the tank was stable and hadn't changed in months. I did more frequent water changes and added some carbon. Tissue kept receding and began to on other acro colonies as well. I examined them closely and found very small, dark flatworms. I believed they were AEFW and I was screwed. Long story short, EVERY colony died, no other corals even flinched. Then something very unusual happened, several weeks later one of my enormous (over 400 polyp) chalice colonies died overnight with RTN. Again, water parameters remained stable, nothing changed, every single other coral (including other chalices, montiporas, softies, etc...) were totally fine and happy and have been ever since.

Heres the problem/question
I have been acropora-free for 2-3 months (sounds like an addiction if you ask me) and every single little AEFW should be dead by now, but there are still flatworms. Are they not AEFW? They remain small, I can try to get a picture with my macro lens but that's still pushing it. What on earth do I do?

Piper27 · 12/03/2016, 07:56 PM

Probably red planaria covering your corals and killing them from stress?

StrikerKratos · 12/03/2016, 10:20 PM

They seem to be a brown/grey color, incredibly small, and not in a high enough population to smother corals. They don't seem to be "on" any of my corals, however, they were indeed "on" my acros. They completely leave montis, zoas, chalices, open brains, favias, etc.... alone (the only living coral tissue I've seen them on is acro, however, I've never seen any eggs on the acros). Not a single one was on my chalice that RTN'ed. Currently, I can only find them on the algae on the sides of my tank which makes me think they are feeding on the algae.

This makes me feel like I have a super-breed of AEFW that can survive on algae in times of no acro. I may get a "cheap" acro frag, put it in there, and see what happens.

organism · 12/03/2016, 10:31 PM

Have you looked up red planaria? With as long as your tank's been Acro-free that's mostly likely what you have. I've had those hang out on Acros and mushrooms a lot... If you don't trust it you can dip a rock with them in Flatworm Exit, if they die then they're not AEFW.

StrikerKratos · 12/03/2016, 11:33 PM

Thanks Organism for the input, from what I can find on google, red planaria seem significantly larger than what I have in my tank and I've never seen any on my mushrooms (rhodactis). I will try to snap a photo tomorrow, maybe I'll dig out my microscope if the macro lens doesn't cut it.

organism · 12/04/2016, 12:49 PM

I've never seen any on Rhodactis either, they sure love Discosomas though. They can be pretty small, especially under higher light.

Piper27 · 12/04/2016, 02:31 PM

Get a picture of them otherwise everything is speculation. I second organisms experience too.

StrikerKratos · 12/04/2016, 02:45 PM

Here is one on a dime for reference (over the R in TRUST), this seems to be the average size. If a better photo is needed I can get the microscope out.

StrikerKratos · 12/04/2016, 02:49 PM

*zoom* *enhance*

Note: This is the underside of the flatworm, it is on the surface of the water and slightly smaller than it appears.

organism · 12/04/2016, 02:57 PM

Looks like a red planaria to me.

Piper27 · 12/04/2016, 05:39 PM

Agreed, get some flatworm exit, a way to pull them out when they die and run a good bag of carbon. They release toxins when they die. If you see a good amount your infested, they hide in places where they are camouflaged and you may think the rock is clear of them but they are actually covering it. Do two treatments if needed a few weeks apart. They may always be in your system and I think they feed on bacteria or something. Once what they feed on ballances out they could stay high in numbers. Some fish can help keep them in check til that happens.

jda · 12/04/2016, 09:40 PM

They are no joke when you start to kill them... they can crash a tank if you have enough. I would recommend that you siphon out every one that you can see every day for a few weeks. Even then, you will have thousands more that you cannot see. Put a mesh bag over the end of your siphon line and you can put the water back in the tank.

Once you treat and you see them detach and start to get stringy, shut your pumps off - they will come off of the rocks pool up on the bottom. Vigorously siphon these out as well, but the water has to go this time. Be prepared to change a lot of water and run some carbon.

You can buy Prohibit 52G online for like $25 that will make hundreds of doses of Flatworm Exit. Mix one level tsp in a 500ml bottle of water. Dose 1 ml per gallon - you can go easy at first if you want. The prohibit is harmless to your tank - they dying flatworms are not.

Most importantly, you will need to keep on dosing a week at a time for few more weeks or the eggs and some stragglers can survive. These subsequent doses should just need carbon since you got nearly all of the nasty worms the first time and there should not be enough toxin to hurt anything.

Piper27 · 12/05/2016, 10:13 AM

These lay eggs?

StrikerKratos · 01/18/2017, 10:12 AM

I have not seen any eggs. I have been doing flatworm exit and can report incredible success, the flatworm exit treatment will continue for a few more weeks to make sure there are absolutely none left whatsoever.

12/03/2016, 06:20 PM	#1
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	Acro eating flat worms... or not. I used to have a lot of acro, a lot of acro, until about 4-5 months ago. I noticed one of my colonies had RTN. In an effort to stop it I first checked water parameters (don't ask me what they were, this was months ago) but nothing was out of the norm, the tank was stable and hadn't changed in months. I did more frequent water changes and added some carbon. Tissue kept receding and began to on other acro colonies as well. I examined them closely and found very small, dark flatworms. I believed they were AEFW and I was screwed. Long story short, EVERY colony died, no other corals even flinched. Then something very unusual happened, several weeks later one of my enormous (over 400 polyp) chalice colonies died overnight with RTN. Again, water parameters remained stable, nothing changed, every single other coral (including other chalices, montiporas, softies, etc...) were totally fine and happy and have been ever since. Heres the problem/question I have been acropora-free for 2-3 months (sounds like an addiction if you ask me) and every single little AEFW should be dead by now, but there are still flatworms. Are they not AEFW? They remain small, I can try to get a picture with my macro lens but that's still pushing it. What on earth do I do?

12/03/2016, 10:31 PM	#4
organism code monkey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: south bay Posts: 6,223	Have you looked up red planaria? With as long as your tank's been Acro-free that's mostly likely what you have. I've had those hang out on Acros and mushrooms a lot... If you don't trust it you can dip a rock with them in Flatworm Exit, if they die then they're not AEFW. __________________ I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros

12/04/2016, 12:49 PM	#6
organism code monkey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: south bay Posts: 6,223	I've never seen any on Rhodactis either, they sure love Discosomas though. They can be pretty small, especially under higher light. __________________ I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros

12/04/2016, 02:57 PM	#10
organism code monkey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: south bay Posts: 6,223	Looks like a red planaria to me. __________________ I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros

12/03/2016, 07:56 PM	#2
Piper27 I love bengals Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Manassas Virginia Posts: 2,512	Probably red planaria covering your corals and killing them from stress?

12/03/2016, 10:20 PM	#3
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	They seem to be a brown/grey color, incredibly small, and not in a high enough population to smother corals. They don't seem to be "on" any of my corals, however, they were indeed "on" my acros. They completely leave montis, zoas, chalices, open brains, favias, etc.... alone (the only living coral tissue I've seen them on is acro, however, I've never seen any eggs on the acros). Not a single one was on my chalice that RTN'ed. Currently, I can only find them on the algae on the sides of my tank which makes me think they are feeding on the algae. This makes me feel like I have a super-breed of AEFW that can survive on algae in times of no acro. I may get a "cheap" acro frag, put it in there, and see what happens.

12/03/2016, 11:33 PM	#5
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	Thanks Organism for the input, from what I can find on google, red planaria seem significantly larger than what I have in my tank and I've never seen any on my mushrooms (rhodactis). I will try to snap a photo tomorrow, maybe I'll dig out my microscope if the macro lens doesn't cut it.

12/04/2016, 02:31 PM	#7
Piper27 I love bengals Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Manassas Virginia Posts: 2,512	Get a picture of them otherwise everything is speculation. I second organisms experience too.

12/04/2016, 02:45 PM	#8
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	Here is one on a dime for reference (over the R in TRUST), this seems to be the average size. If a better photo is needed I can get the microscope out.

12/04/2016, 02:49 PM	#9
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	zoom enhance Note: This is the underside of the flatworm, it is on the surface of the water and slightly smaller than it appears.

12/04/2016, 05:39 PM	#11
Piper27 I love bengals Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Manassas Virginia Posts: 2,512	Agreed, get some flatworm exit, a way to pull them out when they die and run a good bag of carbon. They release toxins when they die. If you see a good amount your infested, they hide in places where they are camouflaged and you may think the rock is clear of them but they are actually covering it. Do two treatments if needed a few weeks apart. They may always be in your system and I think they feed on bacteria or something. Once what they feed on ballances out they could stay high in numbers. Some fish can help keep them in check til that happens.

12/04/2016, 09:40 PM	#12
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	They are no joke when you start to kill them... they can crash a tank if you have enough. I would recommend that you siphon out every one that you can see every day for a few weeks. Even then, you will have thousands more that you cannot see. Put a mesh bag over the end of your siphon line and you can put the water back in the tank. Once you treat and you see them detach and start to get stringy, shut your pumps off - they will come off of the rocks pool up on the bottom. Vigorously siphon these out as well, but the water has to go this time. Be prepared to change a lot of water and run some carbon. You can buy Prohibit 52G online for like $25 that will make hundreds of doses of Flatworm Exit. Mix one level tsp in a 500ml bottle of water. Dose 1 ml per gallon - you can go easy at first if you want. The prohibit is harmless to your tank - they dying flatworms are not. Most importantly, you will need to keep on dosing a week at a time for few more weeks or the eggs and some stragglers can survive. These subsequent doses should just need carbon since you got nearly all of the nasty worms the first time and there should not be enough toxin to hurt anything.

12/05/2016, 10:13 AM	#13
Piper27 I love bengals Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Manassas Virginia Posts: 2,512	These lay eggs?

01/18/2017, 10:12 AM	#14
StrikerKratos Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 40	I have not seen any eggs. I have been doing flatworm exit and can report incredible success, the flatworm exit treatment will continue for a few more weeks to make sure there are absolutely none left whatsoever.