Wow, that's pretty interesting stuff. I never knew that there was so much stuff in food.

I did my third dose last night. I have noticed some improvement in the regrowth of my GHA from the initial dose which is positive. I don't see any falling off the rock however. I am now sure it has killed all 8 of my large mexican turbo snails, The rest of my CUC and all other inhabitants remain unfased by the dosing.

There's GOT to be a better way to strain your frozen food than using a lid on your cup...what a hassle. Now i know why i never did it.

There is. But like I said, I don't use much, nor do I feed frozen stuff often.

My fish "like it", they don't go nuts for it like others report. They go nuts for the pellet food though.

I contacted Technical Service and Research Mars Fishcare to ask what the difference is between Algaefix and Algaefix Marine here is the response.

Nick there is no difference between the Algaefix and Marine Algaefix. The products are the same the Marine simply tells you what algae can be treated.

If you have any other questions or wish to discuss this further, please email back or give us a call at 1-800-847-0659.

Best Regards,

Nathan Fekula
Technical Service and Research
Mars Fishcare

50 EAST HAMILTON ST
PO BOX 218
CHALFONT , PA 18914-0218

Thanks for the info. That settles a lot of questions. ;)

A quick update
 

OK, here's an update:

For those who have lost track, I have a 75g (90g total volume) reef tank with no detectable nutrients and severe hair algae issues, and after fighting with this pest for 2 years, AlgaeFix was my last resort for this tank. My initial assumption was that the algae was derbesia, and this has now been confirmed. Of the 3 tanks I presently have, only this tank was affected.

I went through an initial round of 17 doses (every 3 days), during which time I was running all but exhausted GFO, GAC, and polyfilter. All were due to be changed at the time I began treatment, and I simply left them alone. The night before each treatment, I siphoned out as much of the derbesia as I could, along with 5-10g of water. After the first 3 doses, I thought I began to see some improvement. By the 10th dose, I realized that the improvement, if any, was very slight, and probably was more a result of my siphoning every three days than anything else. By dose 16, my pocillopora had bleached, but no other corals, urchins, shrimp, crabs, or fish were noticeably affected. I did lose quite a few snails along the way, but snails keel over pretty regularly anyway, and I could not pin this on the AlgaeFix.

After dose 17, and the derbesia mostly unaffected, I decided to take a break for a couple of weeks, do a couple of regular water changes, and start again with no chemical filtration whatsoever.

Three weeks and two 25% water changes later, I started treatment Round Two. 24 hours after the first treatment most of my snails acted disoriented. I was constantly turning the Astreas right side up after they fell from wherever. After dose 3, one of the big turbos in my fuge began spinning around in a circle, which continued for 4 days. I lost 4 astreas, 2 huge turbos, a peppermint shrimp, and an 8 year old bumble bee snail. And that was that.

I give up. Algaefix has no useful or meaningful affect on derbesia, which is almost certainly the most common form of nuisance green hair algae (GHA) in marine tanks. If the product worked on your GHA, then you almost certainly had a cladophora species. The two look very similar.

My point would be this: As others have noted, even when dosed conservatively, this product is not harmless to inverts, most notably snails. It most definitely has a narrow range of target alga. And it will not work on derbesia, bryopsis, nor, it appears, bubble alga, arguably the three most prominent pest algae types in marine aquaria. If you're considering beginning this treatment, please do everything you can to first confirm the species of algae you are dealing with. I would advise caution and strongly urge responsibility. It should not be used in an attempt to eliminate a couple of small tufts of unidentified green stuff. We have all been the guinea pigs, and by now it seems rather clear that if you have an algal pest other than one of the species listed on the container (or on AP's www site), it is almost certainly not going to be effective.

I did manage to make one other possibly useful observation during this trial, but I'll save that for another post. For those still reading, I apologize for the length.

PhreeBYrd,

Thanks for the informative post. I agree with your findings as this is what I have found in my own tank. I have Derbesia mixed with a blue green cyano, probably an Oscillatoria sp. I was not able to identify my pests until recently after a purchase of a microscope.

Interestingly Derbesia and Bryopsis are both very closely related. They are both siphoning algae, which makes them much more resistant to damages by the AlgaeFix. The Oscillatoria cyanobacteria are very tough also, since they are able to derive nutrients in the same manor as the true bacteria. Some research has demonstrated that there is a distinct possibility that the cyanobacteria (in this case Oscillatoria) will provide needed nutrients for the Derbesia and bryopsis when closely interwoven together. This would account for the Derbesia and bryopsis being able to survive in extremely low N:P environments.

If high levels of magnesium work on Bryopsis, perhaps this will work with Derbesia also, since they are so closely related.

The best article I have read regarding controlling bubble algae is this article:

Bubble Algae: Selected Description, controls and Comments
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-0...ture/index.php

I've found Algafix Marine to be a great tool in controlling various algae. I've had no negative reactions from my fish, cleaners, clams, hard and soft corals. I did have two clumps of algae that resisted and taking Mg up to 1650 with Tech M (different result from my usual Mg supplement), took down this stubborn pest.

I did have a few bouts with cyano which I have treated with a cyano specific med.

I agree that AlgaeFix is a useful tool for many of your green algae. One big problem that has been noted is the proper ID of your particular pest.

In my case, possibly using Erythromycin to control the cyano and elevating my mag. levels for the Derbesia may help in gaining control. This will be my next attempt down the road. What effect AlgaeFix may have on this recipe is also a possibility. I am contemplating setting up a small aquarium to experiment with. ;)

It would be nice to come up with proper control measures for all the pests we run into in our reef systems. :)

It does.

What was the number you called, if you don't mind me asking?

I just want to call again and see if I get the same answer. Not for any other reason than to confirm this. Not to debunk it.

I emailed them but there is a number in the post if you would like to call them.

Sure. Just for kicks. I want to see if the person I speak with corroborates what has been already said.

And, here we go! (Part 2) ;)

Cliff, this is just exactly where I was heading. I had the same thought as you regarding the elevated Mg level to treat derbesia. I had used the method before and it did work for me to eliminate bryopsis, and since both are siphonous algaes, I too thought it might be effective on derbesia. I had started elevating my Mg a week prior to beginning the AlgaeFix, and it was at 1900-2000 ppm throughout. I seriously believe that the Mg began to work on the algae before I ever dosed A-F. Adding the A-F kicked it in the head for a few days, but didn't knock it out. However, I do believe the Mg (Tech M) was more effective than A-F against derbesia, because it began to fall apart in spots before I ever started the A-F. I tested the Mg treatment by squirting the necessary Tech-M dosage (2x per day) directly onto the algae. Those spots are still mostly bare (kind of looks like a friar's head). I think you need to just hit it really hard with the Tech M.

And the other thing I noted was this: In areas of very high flow, the derbesia is held to the rockwork very firmly - nearly impossible to pull it off the rock. But in low flow areas, it is barely attached, and it can be pulled off entirely (or seemingly so) very easily. In low flow areas it will even grow from the loose substrate and reach lengths of 6" or more. In high flow areas, 2" is about the max length. It likes the high flow.

So I may yet have a couple more tests in me with this tank.

1-800-847-0659

After spending 2 days reading every post and looking at every picture and clicking every link.. I'm sick of Algae talk but here goes.

I want to see if anyone can identify my algae..
I've tried lights out for 3 days, water changes, Phophate Remover media, and siphoning and this stuff continues to grow..

2 or 3 months ago before I started siphoning
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL367.../362694189.jpg

After lots of water changes, siphoning, and changing the phosphate removal media every 4 days I still have this. It has been a week since I siphoned any out.
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL367.../368259033.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL367.../368259017.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL367.../368258458.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL367.../368258423.jpg


I ordered 2 Two Little Fishies reactors Friday. I use RO/DI water that is tested and perfect, I rinse all frozen food, I have a HOB Rogue Wave Skimmer that pulls out some nasty stuff everyday, yet I only have 2 clowns and a goby in a 90 gallon. Is it time for me to try AlgaeFix?

If this pest is cyanobacteria, AlgaeFix will not work on it. Cyanobacteria is a blue green color in many cases, where as green algae is a mid green color. It is difficult to ID without extreme close-ups if not micro pictures. Color is not the best way to ID these type of pests.

If it is a cyanobacteria, then Erythromycin may be a better way to go.

Like everyone else that's trying this product I've tried all the natural remedies. RO/DI water changes, Phosphate removers, reduced lighting, reduced feedings and manual removal. None of this is working.

I'm on my second dose of this product and so far no visible results of algae die off. The only thing that I've noticed is that my toadstool leather has not opened in 2 days. I'm hoping that it is not because of this product. I will continue to dose.

Most hobbyists have started to see results at around the 4th or 5th dose when using Algaefix.

My LFS suggested this

I am not sure what is in the product you listed. I would recommend Boyd's ChemiClean. It has the Erythromycin in it.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11...te=google_base

I've used this product on cyanobacteria in the past. I works great. Be sure to follow the directions concerning you skimmer and adding extra oxygen to your tank.

Just to clarify, Boyd's Chemiclean does not contain erythromycin. This is stated on the package, and Boyd Enterprises has always been quite proud of the fact. As a product that is antibiotic-free, it will not kill innocent bystanding bacteria such as nitrifying bacteria and other organisms as will a product containing erythromycin. Boyd's states that their product is an oxidizing agent, and their directions specify that you must supplement oxygenation in the tank with airstones during treatment, which would make sense.

I don't know what is in the UltraLife Red Slime Remover. I had a little go-round with UltraLife a couple of years ago (I believe I posted this experience in another thread here on RC), trying to get the company to either confirm or deny that their product contained erythromycin or another antibiotic. They refused to do so, saying that this was a trade secret. Now, a couple of years later, they clearly state that their product does not contain erythromycin or agaecides, and that it is an oxidizer. Their description of the product has changed completely since my little run-in with them. Maybe they have changed the product. Or maybe they just decided that they should come clean if they want to stay in this business. And just for the record, I did use the UltraLife Red Slime Remover product just prior to my go-round with UltraLife. My rabbit fish, who had been struggling for several weeks with fin and tail rot, was suddenly cured after the treatment. Draw your own conclusion, but my view is that if the current product truly is antibiotic-free, then they have changed the product since I used it.

Both products work on slime algae. I would most certainly use Boyd's Chemiclean first. I have little respect for and no trust in UltraLife after receiving their responses (attitude included) to my questions.

+1

This is a post that Randy made regarding ChemiClean:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=chemiclean

"Yes, I believe it has been identified as erythromycin by certain spectroscopic methods with a different counterion than other forms of erythromycin that it has claimed to not be.

Boyd says:

"Contains no phosphates, algacides or Erythromycin succinate"

but evidence points to it simply being a different erythromycin salt.


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley
Club 65535"

So what's true? I just picked up this stuff (Elite) for a trade in on a fish, so I can pick up a pair of ORA Picasso's.

Mind sharing a little more about the Elite stuff?

Boyd's Chemi-Pure Elite:

http://www.petdiscounters.com/c569/B...ite-p7112.html

From this:

"Chemi-Pure Elite is a precise formula for use with either fresh, reef, and marine aquariums as a chemical absorption filter, ion generator and exchange unit, which positively keeps the pH at a constant level. Ammonia and nitrate scavenging formula removes cooper metal, phosphates, ions, odors, all pollution, gasses, carbon dioxide, and color from aquarium water.

Chemi-Pure quickly buffers pH harmlessly and without any shock to the fish.

Newly collected marines or fishes from old water may be transferred to Chemi-Pure filtered water without harm as this remarkable formula neutralizes the fright and shock systems of fishes.

Chemi-Pure Elite formula now contains Ferric oxide, which helps remove red slime and PO4 (phosphates from the water, giving your coral and fish a healthy environment to grow and live. Packaged in a sealed nylon filter bag."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is not the same product as ChemiClean. This product contains a GFO to help reduce phosphate levels.

Regarding the ChemiClean, Boomer knows more information about the Erythromycin in it and the type of independent tests that were done on it. ;)

OK, I found a thread where Boomer indicated what was in ChemiClean:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...n&pagenumber=2

From this thread:

"2thdeekay

It is Erthyromycin cetyl suflate

A chem grad student had looked at it an thought it was Polyacrylamide with no testing. I thought may be so as it is well known in the water world as a flocculating agent. He was going to get it tested but never did. However, it was tested out side of the USA. We also had thoughts it was Alum but we got no sulfate levels. Since the sulafte is acttached to the cetyl you will not me able to measure free sulfate levels in Erthyromycin cetyl, like you could in Alum suflate. So, we did not know what it was.


__________________
If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be."

Marine SAT?
 

Has anyone tried TLC's Marine SAT? It claims to address hair algae by using bateria that out compete the hair algae for nutrients thus killing it. Since it is live bacteria they claim no negative effects on the tank.

Sorry if already mentioned. I read this entire thread a week ago and don't recall seeing it.

Re: Marine SAT?
 

Elaborate please. More info, something. :)

here is a link
 

Sorry, I don't know much more than I posted. I came across a reference to it searching the net and haven't seen much else. People here have a lot of knowledge/experience and thought maybe someone here had some experience with it.

Here is a link

http://www.aquariumpros.com/p-SAT32SW.html

BTW, I'm currently trying Algafix and am on my second dose. No news to report yet.

Re: here is a link
 

Give it a few more doses. :)

can anyone tell what are the nuisance algae in this picture?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70...6tankright.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70...26tankleft.jpg


What about to the left in this picture? Is it some kind of macroalgae?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70...rplebonsai.jpg

Are these strandy algae a pest?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70...leargreens.jpg

Lastly, the ugly clumps of red hairy algae in the middle in the back of this picture

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70...leftcorner.jpg

Thank you for your help

wmatt140,

I would assume that the product you are talking about works on the same principle as carbon dosing (vodka) except possibly this product contains bacteria. If you drive bacteria with a carbon source they will take up nitrate and phosphate and skimming will remove the actual bacteria which exports the nitrate and phosphate. Whether their bacteria work better at exporting than the ones already in your system would be up to debate. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels will help in controlling algae, but in many cases will not eradicate it. What are your current nitrate and phosphate levels?

thirst,

The red color pest belongs to the Rhodophta, which is a true red algae. This is a large group of algae and many look very similar.

I can not see the green algae in your pictures to tell what group it belongs to.

Whether or not AlgaeFix will work, I don't know. If you decide to try, I would be careful after you reach the 10th dose and watch your other organisms carefully.

Thanks are the rhodophta the strandy ones or the stringy ones in a clump?

The reddish colored algae in your 4th picture down is a Rhodophta.

If you can get a close-up of the green pest it may help.

The only algae I can make out clearly in your photos is the red branching algae in photos #3 and #4.

This appears to be a Gracilaria species, and I have never heard of anybody considering Gracilaria a pest. It is in fact a favorite food of surgeonfish (it is often offered for sale as a nutritious treat for tangs), and most all herbivores love the stuff. It is not aggressive and is rather slow growing; otherwise it would be the perfect refugium algae.

Best photograph I could find on short notice, you might check this link:

http://www.marineflora.com/index.php...products_id=12

It's a good representative photo however, so maybe you can compare to see if this is what you have. If so, no worries. In fact, I can't think of a red algae (aside from cyanobacteria, which aren't truly alga and are definitely not what is pictured) that is generally considered a pest at all.

That looks like it!

so good that algae is good...


but the clumpy stringy algae... that thing is killing all the corals! they grow like cotton balls.

That would be Erythromycin cetyl sulfate.

Not exactly what I would consider an even remotely convincing argument. I had the cleaning lady at the local pharmacy look at the stuff, and she disagreed. And then she left the country, presumably to do more testing.

I live in the city where erythromycin was discovered and first isolated 60 years ago, where it was first processed, compounded, and patented, and the only place it was manufactured in this country for a very long time. I many years ago met Dr. Jim McGuire, who led the team that first isolated and identified it, and I am quite well acquainted with one of his surviving original team members. So for kicks I asked my acquaintance about the Boyd's product and gave him a sample to look at. He did explain to me that positively identifying compounds (esters and salts) of erythromycin is a fairly complex, multistep process, but there were certain indicators one could look for, and he had a (much) younger colleague take a look. The verdict was that if the Boyd's product contained any erythromycin compounds, it was in tiny quantities, and would require some elaborate testing (the details of which went at least several feet over my head) to be certain.

So since my head was spinning a little, I left it at that.
If the Boyd's product does in fact not contain Erythromycin succinate as the company claims, but does contain a different ester or salt of erythromycin, then I would consider that willfully deceptive advertising that would warrant an explanation by the company. But knowing what I know now, I would still use the Boyd's product before any other.

Re: Marine SAT?
 

Sounded pretty intriguing and worth a little investigation. There don't seem to be many online vendors offering it for sale, and none of what I consider the 'Big Ones', so I checked with my local LFS. They used to carry it, but stopped because it did not seem to be a very effective product. Take that with a grain of salt. It also doesn't sound as if there's any danger (except to the wallet) in trying it. My local LFS now instead carries a Marc Weiss product (I didn't get the product name), which they say works slowly but effectively. More grains of salt... just passing along what I found.

And in an attempt to keep on topic, my local LFS does carry AlgaeFix, and reports, much as we have seen in this thread, widely varying results.

so what is the best method to remove this type of alage ?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...4algea5555.jpg

levels
 

My phosphate and nitrate levels show none (API test kits). I figure the kits don't measure a low enough level and/or the algae is taking it up too fast.

My problem isn't too bad at this point but it is spreading. I want to stop it before it get out of control. One thing I noticed is the majority of the hair algae is on old coral skeletons vs the live rock. Is there a reason for this?

OK, i dosed for the seventh time. It seems to have slowed down the GHA growth some. I also have spent HOURS scrubbing EVERY rock with a toothbrush and have completely removed most of the GHA. Hopefully, that'll do it. I got some more Rowa Phos and refilled my phosban reactor with 500ml of the stuff so maybe that'll get rid of whatever phoshates i may have. I've also stepped up water change frequency to 20 gallons every other day.

I think that MAY be too frequent. Maybe 20g every 3 days.. I know you have a lot of water volume. I'll let someone with a little more experience chime in.

I would hold off on the 20g every other day unless someone else with more experience says its ok.

chercm,

It is hard to tell what you have from the picture. Can you get a close-up of it. What color is it, sometimes colors do not come out correctly in pictures?

I'm a little worried about it but i HAVE to get rid of this damn GHA. I figured i'd do maybe 5 wc's then switch back to at least 10% weekly. I can't do a nice big wc because i don't have a mixing container large enough.

Are you trying to reduce nitrates, phosphates or both?

I've never had a nitrate problem since i first cycled the tank, at least not one i can measure. Phosphates, i think, is my problem. my Hanna reads .03, which IMO, is low but the GHA is/ was still growing so...