thanks, Keaton...



I was up to my 10th dose and only saw minimal results..I don't know if i want to try dosing it anymore...but I am seeing the small patches of HA beginning to grow larger again...I dose sugar to keep my nitrates at "0", but I am now looking into dosing vodka...I know I just want this stuff GONE!

On a side note, my 10 year old son's name is KEATON too!!!!!! I have only known 1 other Keaton since naming ours 10 years ago...how old is yours?

keatons momma too :)

Pictures of the tank? Are you dosing with GFO/carbon at the same time?

No, I am not dosing with GFO/carbon but I do dose with sugar a few times a week to keep nitrates at 0...

I don't have a picture of this algae currently, but will try to take one.

There have been hobbyists who have reached around the 10th dose mark report problems to start to occur in some coral.

For this reason, I would not recommend dosing much more than 10 doses on the every three day basis, without watching your tank inhabitants closely. Once you start to see any negative signs with your coral I would stop dosing. Make sure you have a good estimate on your total water volume in your tank. One way to check this would be to use the Reef Chemistry calculator and add what you think will raise it given what you believe is the proper water volume, using baking soda. After you add the appropriate amount to raise the alk up a bit, re-check what your true increase is. You can then make changes in the total tank volume water to reflect what your true increase was.

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

IMHO, if the AF is going to work on your particular algal pest it should be appearant by the 5th or so dose. AF does not work on all algae unfortunately, particularly the siphoning algae which includes algae like Derbesia. :(

Cliff, even though I've been around since about half way through here (first one to use/report on the "FW" version), is there "another" product out there designed to rid unwanted algae? For instance we know the API stuff works here and there, what I'm really asking, is if there's another product or any competition to this stuff? Another avenue for those that use this product and are unsuccessful, want to get a leg up on their unwanted algae, and try and find the source.

Am I making any sense? lol

Yes, I have asked this same question. I have been looking for other products that would be reef safe to use to get rid of algal type pests.

Unfortunately my search has not been successful in finding something even as safe as AlgaeFix, which anyone who has read through this thread realizes it is not completely reef safe according to statements made by some of the hobbyists.

It's all Boomer's fault. Every time I come up with a possible product, he keeps shooting me down. :p

I have read through countless scientific books and articles. The best killing agents for algal type pests are copper compounds, which are not reef safe.

Do to the facts given above, I have become a firm believer in not using live rock or live sand. Using dead rock and soaking it in bleach is a much better way to go IMHO. Many hobbyists are fortunate enough to not bring in these problem algae into their system. Quarantining anything to be put into your tank, including fish, coral or anything else will help from bringing these pests into your system. Quarantining should include proper lighting and a long enough time to see if these type pests are growing in your Quarantine tank first. A little prevention can go a long way to prevent many headaches later on.

In some of the articles I have recently read, it has been found that many of the algae can derive their P needs directly from organic phosphate, like fish foods. Consequently, it is my belief and I am open to any criticism, that lowering your inorganic phospates level (PO4) will not prevent these type of algal pests from growing in your system. It will slow their growth considerably. This is one reason to watch the P being introduced as fish food, properly skim and do water changes and anything else you can do to remove this organic phosphate from your system. This will include mechanical removal using siphoning and hand removal and possibly a good filter to collect it out of the water (this filter would need to be changed frequently).

Cliff, I have read from PaulB, that if one has an algae problem, it's possible your making the algae worse by doing WC's, since the problem may be feeding on iron, or trace elements as well. I don't remember all if it, but he is "soft" to recommend just letting it run it's course. But often, as I see pictures here, that some people need something to rid the problem, quickly.

Aside from nuking the tank and starting over.

Of course he is very successful, the most successful reefkeeper I know, but run's an extremely low tech tank. While I respect his opinions often, sometimes I wonder why no one has said anything about some of his practices - with the new technology, practices and husbandry we do now.

What's your view on this? I'm sure Boomer will have something to say about this - since he has an abundance of knowledge of reef chemistry.

PaulB's success for so many years speaks for itself and deserves worthy attention. ;)

I have found in my own experience, that many algae will run their course and hobbyists can get control of them by using proper husbandry.

The scientific facts are everywhere on the Internet relating to other type of algae pests which take over natural reef systems with pristine water conditions, including very low phosphate, iron, nitrate and other Micronutrient levels. This is something to be considered IMHO. Scientists are continuing to work on finding natural control measures like sea slugs, fish....etc that will help control these algae pests and keep them from overrunning natural reefs.

It is true that the salt mixes that we use provide a far cry from natural marine water as far as the micro-nutrients and toxins. Our artificial salt mixes have extremely higher levels of all the chemicals. To complicate the matter, our tanks contain much higher TOM (total organic matter) then do natural reefs. The studies relating to TOM and its effects are a hot topic in the scientific world now and I expect a lot to come out about its negative effects in the future.

When talking about TOM in our reef tanks, it is important to point out that the best skimmers out there do a poor job in reducing it. Water changes help reduce it as does GAC. But the articles I have read, when testing good skimmers show that the TOM is still a big problem, even with the best technology out there. Something to be said about the importance of not over feeding our tanks. ;)

Is GAC + WC's, more effective than a skimmer, at removing TOM? Is there anything - tests/theories/etc. that talks about this?

TOM is a very complicated subject. Skimmers work well in reducing certain types of TOM, while GAC works better on other types. Water changes remove all TOM in what you replace, but it is not recommended to do larger water changes than 30%. So, to answer your question, using all three methods is the best choice.

These are a few articles relating to the subject that you may find interesting:

Feature Article: Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and the Reef Aquarium: an Initial Survey, Part I
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

Organic Compounds in the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.htm


Nutrient control of algal growth in estuarine
waters. Nutrient limitation and the importance of
nitrogen requirements and nitrogen storage among
phytoplankton and species of macroalgae
http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/142/m142p261.pdf

Excess carbon in aquatic organisms and ecosystems: Physiological, ecological, and
evolutionary implications
Dag O. Hessen1
University of Oslo, Department of Biology, CEES, P.O. Box 1066 Blindern, 0316 Oslo, Norway
http://www.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_53/issue_4/1685.pdf

Plant Management in Florida Waters:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3D198%26um%3D1

Thanks Cliff. :)

Do you have all this stuff bookmarked on your computer? I thought mine was bad when Firefox told me my bookmarks were full, and I had to create another folder.. Yours and Boomer's computers got to be full of links. :D

My lists are to the point now where it may be less time consuming to run a search to find the article I want to post the link for. :D

Unfortunately, I can not post easily from the text books I have acquired. Boomer has me beat by far, he has a library out of this world on all the different aspects of our hobby and he continues to add to it on a regular basis. :lol:

iFisch,

Since you are a student you probably have free access to a lot of articles on the Internet. I would take advantage of this and down load as many as you can for future reference. ;)

Well I have access to tons of books. The internet at school is no different than what it is here at home.

And unless I am taking "that" class, they usually don't give out certain "packages" of links. For instance if I was in the Marine Biology class, there's a package they give, with all sorts of books, and links for reference.

However I am not currently taking Marine Biology/Chemistry, so I'm learning on the fly.



Also sent you a PM.

The books I have purchased may not interest you other than a few basic Reefing books when I first started. Mostly books relating to algae and micro-organisms.

Your specific interests regarding this hobby will lead to subjects that can't be easily found on the Internet as far as books go. Usually these books will be sited as references in the latest Scientific Articles found on the Internet.

One book I have enjoyed regarding coral is this book:

Corals of the World, Vol. 1, 2, 3 (in Slip Cover) (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/Corals-World-V...5740480&sr=8-1

FWIW, the articles that Randy has written are all a must read as far as I am concerned and you will find many references in these articles that you may find interesting:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605

I see. So you're the "agae guy" when I, or anyone has a question then.

Thanks for the link.

I'm actually looking for "basic" books to a lot of subjects, including biology, chemistry (Boomer), algae, corals, and fish. I just want to broaden my knowledge of this beautiful hobby - that we call it.

I've heard it (reefs) called the most complex "things" in the world. And it's pretty cool that a lot of us have the knowledge and are fortunate for members like you.



:beer:

Our hobby covers many subjects of interest. Keep on reading and go where your interests take you and most of all have fun with it. :thumbsup:

i almost bought some of this today, but I talked myself out of it...

i'm going to try every available solution beforehand, including "the waiting game"

TheBanker,

You have a good quality pic of your pest? :)

I didn't see this as being an active thread anymore...
 

I will be making my 4th dose tomorrow of the algae fix, right now everything seems status quo, still there and does seem to be growing. I have been dosing 5 ml to be conservative with rock displacement. Anyway here are the pics... I may go to a Phosban reacter her pretty soon. They didn't test too high but with algae present I guess they wouldn't...

Main Shot
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...6/DSC00694.jpg

Left Side
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...6/DSC00700.jpg

Center
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...6/DSC00701.jpg

And the Right Side
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...6/DSC00702.jpg

Will it be safe to dose marine algaefix while vodka dosing? I have some algae that will simply not budge. In the past the algaefix helped a lot but did not knock it out completely.

My tank has always tested zero nitrates, even before vodka dosing. I have run plenty of GFO and I feed my tank extremely lightly.

I think this combo could potentially knock it out but will it be safe?

Logzor,

There have been hobbyists in this thread who have dosed the AF while dosing vodka and achieved good results.



64Texan,

I would try to remove as much of your pest as possible before each dose of AF. Keep us posted. ;)

I haven't read all of this thread but I used Algae fix marine as per the dosage label religiously but had basically zero response. It turned it white for a while but it never really died. Tried removing it by hand but that became a real mission. Then I added my Yellow Tang. It cleaned it up in about 1 week and now the tank is spotless. After 4 bottles of algae fix (@ $35 a bottle) I decided a yellow tang for $150 was a great addition and the green hair algae has been gone ever since. I doubt I would use it again.

Wow. $35/bottle and $150 for a yellow tang... :(

Thats Australian dollars by the way...thats cheap for the tang in Western Australia. They are up to 180 for a small one and up to $250 for a large one. Algae fix probably not so cheap.

Holy ****!

Yellow tangs here are $40.

jasonmg,

Great to hear you achieved control of your algae problem. :)

There have been some hobbyists who posted that their algae pest was damaged by the AF and fish that would not touch it before dosing, started eating it after the AF set it back. Perhaps coincidence. The AlgaeFix does effect the cell wall of algae and perhaps braking the cell wall down makes the algae more palatable?

Loading pics soon. I haven't gone through the whole photobucket thing yet. Just got back from a week of camping and fishing in the Sierras (yes, kiling and eating fish! mauahahaha).

After entrusting my pride and joy to the roomie for a week, I come back to find an algae horror scene. GHA has gone nuts, and I have a bad red cyano outbreak on my sand. Water change time... and i'm sick of it... i'm buying Algaefix. My nitrates are @ 15, phosphates at near 0.

I feel your pain. :(

Hope the algaefix works for you. :)

Keep us posted.

Here are some crappy "before" shots I took from my iPhone. Sorry about the quality, but I don't feel like messing with my digital camera at the moment. (bigger fish to fry... err... algae to fry I suppose)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a.../fts082909.jpg
The disaster area.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...onliverock.jpg
Green hair algae on my live rock (everywhere like this)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...tomsonsand.jpg
Green hair algae & diatoms on sand

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...o/redslime.jpg
Cyano outbreak!

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a.../sadgramma.jpg
My royal gramma is embarassed of his home's poor condition.

Dose #1 in the tank as we speak... stay tuned.

I just got some alaefix last night added it to my tank
now this morning my skimmer is going nuts and my clams look to be dieing i hope that they are just in shock or something
if my clams do end up dead then the algaefix will have done its job cause i will just drain the tank and be done with it

Cliff

I get allot of free stuff from trade shows and yesterday, believe it or not, I found a bottle of AlgeaFix Marine, by API, that I never knew I even had :lol: You made this comment long ago here on this thread.

AlgaeFix Fresh Water: dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate 31512-74-0 4.5%

AlgaeFix Marine: dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate 31512-74-0 4.5%

It may be exactaly the same but what some do for marine product liquids, in some cases, is add a buffer to boost up the pH.

so far i have lost 4 fish and snails are droping off the glass in less than 24 hours i dont think this is a good idea any more

Must be dosing wrong or something. No one here has lost 4 fish and tons of snails.

An invert or two, sure, but lots of snails + 4 fish... I don't know.

i must have but i dont think i did any thing wrong other than adding that stuff

How big of a tank? How much did you dose? How often did you dose?

Maybe you lost one fish - then got an ammonia spike, which acted like a chain reaction, unless you got the ammonia out right away.

main tank is 224 i have 1 55 gallon rock tank and 1 55 gallon ref a 40g skimmer tank and a 55 gallon sump
i added 2 1/2 caps full witch should be 250 gallons wourth mabey i am wrong on my math i dont know but i think i would have more than that much water
i just doesed it in my sump
that was the first time i did it

Boomer,

I agree. You never know what the difference may be. I would stay with the AlgaeFix Marine to be sure.

cj hill,

Sorry to hear about your losses. :(

The amount you dosed adds cup correctly for me.

As stated above, this is the first fish kill I have read about in this thread. There have been other problems with the larger systems in this thread. Possibly due to the amount of AF being applied at one time. If the AF does not get dispersed quickly it could contact organisms in a much more concentrated form. Perhaps braking the dosing amount for larger systems into two doses spread out over a half hour or so may be safer.

Another possibility would be if you had a lot of vegetative algae growth in your tank and it suddenly died, it could spur a bacterial population that could rob the oxygen from the water column, particularly at night. This is one reason why the manufacturer recommends that you remove as much algae growth as possible, before dosing the AF.

FWIW, I dosed AF Marine at the three day interval for 1 1/2 bottles worth without any problems except that my chaeto died.

I tried to read most of this thread but ran out of gas...

On Drs Foster and Smith it says, "NOTE: Do NOT use AlgaeFix with crustaceans, including crabs, shrimp, freshwater shrimp and freshwater lobsters. "

I've got several scarlett hermits in my 40, should I take them out and put them in a QT before dosing?

General consensus is you may loose a CUC member or two. Won't wipe out your CUC though.

You are reading the label for the freshwater version called, AlgaeFix.

I would recommend using the marine version called, AlgaeFix Marine.

The label for AlgaeFix Marine:

Algaefix® Marine
http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Pr...?ProductID=127

Marine

Reef –safe aquarium algaecide. Controls many types of algae in marine and reef aquariums. Will not harm marine fish, corals and other invertebrates. Will not harm coralline algae. Effectively controls Green algae, “Red Slime,” and “Brown algae” in marine aquariums containing live corals, invertebrates and fish. Use weekly to control algal growth and reduce aquarium maintenance. Does not discolor water or cause foaming.

I'm glad to see that this thread is still alive. A few pages back (I can't believe its gotten to 28 pages! Highland, you must be proud :) ) I posted my own experiences with Marinefix and Algaefix. What I noticed, to sum up, was that in all, Marinefix killed off all the algae I had, leaving me with a single strain remaining. Whatever type this one was/is was not matter to me. Iwas still stuck with a stuborn HA that would mock me every time I passed the tank. I could swear it flipped me the bird one day. Sulking in my green tank misery, I stopped by my LFS and lamented my sorrows to the owner. Verily he said unto me, "Have you heard of Zeovit?" "Alas, no," I replied. I did some research. Thought about it a little. And finally, one Saturday while I was shoulder deep in my tank, giving my HA covered rocks a perm, I finally decided it was time to try Zeovit. All I bought were the Zeoliths. No additives, no bacteria. Just gravel. I put them into a spare cannister filter I had and ran it for 3 hours on, 3 off, and gave my tank one last Sinéad O'Connor. Its taken about a month of waiting and one more trim between then and now, but my HA battle is almost over. I'm due to change my liths soon and imagine this will be the final nail it my HA's coffin. I'll get some pix up here in a day or two, but for anyone interested, give the Zeovit system a look. I've been told that once the tank is "converted" fully that the corals look amazing. I have noticed that mine are getting a little more color than usual. And the damage they suffered during the war of 2009 is healing quite well.
Happy reefing all!

This is the initial tank before Marinefix treatment. (cringe)

Constant pruning and the treatment cleared away the greater portion of the algae, but like I said, a monoculture of one HA came to rule and returned it to its HA dominated state. Even though I could remove a good portion of it, I still had green, stubbly rocks and corals.
Now, after almost a month and a half of Zeolith treatment with no water changes, no GFO/Carbon, no ozone; I have this:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05103.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05104.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05105.jpg

I still have places where its entrenched, but its lighter and thinner. I believe after another month or two the battle will be over. And the best part is I can finally use all my T5's. With both banks the algae Exploded, and I was reduced to using only one bank If I ever wanted to see anything other than algae.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05112.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05113.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/DSC05114.jpg

Update: my fourth dose is going in tomorrow, and my tank is already looking better. I siphoned out a lot of the GHA, and the algaefix seems to have knocked down the rest considerably. I have noticed some side effects. My chaeto is not doing as well, and my mushrooms are noticeably downtrodden. The frogspawn is not as "out" as it normally is, and the same for my goniopora. Zoas don't look as good either.

Green star polyps are unaffected. Actually they look better. Fish are fine, and my crustaceans seem to be unaffected as well.

The cyano has come back, and seems to be doing quite well for its disgusting self. I'm thinking it has a lot of tasty dead algae to feed on, and if it keeps getting worse, i'll nuke it with blue life red slime remover... but only after my AF marine dosing has gone into "maintenance mode".

also, my anemone looks like crap.

oh wait, it always does.

bshumake,

You do have skills in writing and expressing your thoughts. It's a pleasure reading your post. ;)

Thank you for the nice comments.

The only way I can equate a successful reef system, is that it is like a symphony playing a wonderful suite. All the individual instruments chime in at the appropriate moments to complete the symphony and make it into a master piece. It can take a lot of work, trial and error and studying the known facts to make your reef system (master piece) come together. Once it does, it is a wonderful thing to look at and enjoy. :)

In a reef system you are working to bring your water parameters, lighting, feeding & tank occupants selected to a harmony where all your occupants are happy and flourish, yet exclude the weeds & pests you do not want. Easier said then done. :lol:

The subject of weeds in a reef system is similar to weeds in a garden. Most successful gardeners start with good soil and carefully prepare the soil to eliminate pests and weeds. This can be done in many ways.

In a reef system, this can be accomplished by carefully quarantining all your items to be placed in your reef system. This includes everything. Introducing live rock, live sand & possibly natural seawater without proper quarantining is asking for problems.

As in gardening there are many weeds that are easily controlled, buy pulling them by hand. However, there are always weeds that lead to major problems. Trying to control these type of weeds can be difficult if they are introduced into your system. Usually there is no one easy method for removing them. Instead, you may be faced with using many procedures to gain control and sometimes chemicals may help.

Carefully observing your reef system on a regular basis will allow one to detect these weeds when they first start growing. Acting as quickly as possible when you first notice them is of great importance. It is much easier to control these type of pests when they first start then to wait until they have taken over your reef system.

If the weeds are allowed to get out of hand, then you are faced with other problems such as the increased organic matter these weeds create in your water column. When you remove them, parts of them end up in the water column. Most of these weeds in the reef system will create other toxic substances (built in defenses) into your water column. All of this increased DOM takes a while to remove from your water column. Many of these toxins have adverse effects on your coral and possibly fish, which is not taken into consideration as you kill them off. It is possible that this is an underling effect that causes problems with many coral and possibly fish that hobbyists attribute to other things.

To sum everything up, I feel that particular attention to the increased DOM from weed infestations is one of the critical aspects commonly overlooked in any weed pest control program used in a reef system. Your use of the Zeoliths to help accomplish this is certainly one approach to removing DOM along with other known methods such as proper skimming, running GAC, proper water changes & running other filter methods that grab the DOM from the water column (using fine filter bags, sand filters & diatomaceous earth filters may be included here). ;)