Yep, he's got probably another 4-5 day's worth of work to do.

i also like the sea hair for maintenance of the tank along with a tang and that combination seem to help once you get it under control .

I hear many hobbyists have luck with seahares. One caution is when the seahare runs out of algae to eat. Many will starve at that point & die, unless you subsidize their diet. Some hobbyists trade their seahare back to the lfs after the algae is gone. :)

Will be adding my 3rd dose tomorrow. I'm not sure if it's working, but I see some HA floating in the water that I never saw before. Doing a water change tomorrow before the 3rd dose to see if anything comes loose.

newsalt,

Hopefully AF works for you. I would remove as much algae as you can now. If you allow the algae to die & brakedown this will allow more nutrients back into your water column which continues to provide more food source for the algae. ;)

EDIT: One needs to keep in mind that decaying algae can also increase ammonia levels in your system (This is my understanding). Also the decaying algae can lead to lack of oxygen in your water and cause fish kills if too much decaying algae is present.

I dose Seachem Flourish Excel in a freshwater tank and it kills hair algae very well. It is also a source of organic carbon for plants. The chemistry is polycycloglutaracetal.

Has this ever been dosed in saltwater? Would it kill marine hair algae and could it be used as an alternative to other carbon dosing additives?

I would defer to Randy regarding this product. The only information I could find was from this freshwater planted aquarium site (I don't know how accurate this post was):

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ge...xcel-fish.html

From it:

"That's an understatement. Gluteraldehyde is a strong BIOCIDE, related to formaldehyde. At sufficient concentration, it kills darn near anything, which makes it useful for sterilizing medical instruments, labware that has been exposed to infectious agents, etc. I know someone who uses it at their job. They affectionately refer to it as "Ethyl Methyl Death".

At lower concentrations, it's still not pleasant stuff. Gluteraldehyde crosslinks proteins, is a mutagen and carcinogen, is known to cause allergic chemical sensitization, and exposure is a known occupational hazard:

"The 1999 Code of Practice for Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (Chemical Agents) Regulations, 1994, reduces the occupational exposure limit for glutaraldehyde from 0.2ppm to 0.1ppm."

Dosing 1ml gluteraldehyde per 100g water exceeds this limit by a factor of 26.

From the MSDS:

---
Acute Effects:
May be fatal if inhaled.
Toxic if swallowed.
Harmful if absorbed through skin.
Causes severe eye irratation.
Causes skin irritation.
Material may be irritating to mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract.
May cause allergic skin reaction.

Chronic Effects:
Laboratory experiments have shown mutagenic effects.
Target organs: central nervous system, heart.
---

If Flourish Excel really contains this, I will never use it. "

FWIW, if the above post is true, it would be banned as a pesticide by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). :lol:

GLUTARALDEHYDE
CASRN: 111-30-8


See Occupational Exposure Standards
Human Health Effects:
http://www.gasdetection.com/TECH/glutaraldehyde.html

Apparently EPA is still allowing the use of GLUTARALDEHYDE as a pesticide (as of 2007), but further documentation will needed to be provided by the manufacturer to allow reregistration. We will see how that goes. ;)

Reregistration Eligibility Decision
for GLUTARALDEHYDE
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/glutaraldehyde-red.pdf

From my reading as of this date most registrants containing Glutaraldehyde have been banned by EPA. Glutaraldehyde was banned completely in Great Britain several years ago.

whats another way to combat the hair algae? should i go back to carbon dosing daily? the algae seems like its a healthy green now

One other possibility that comes to mind would be to try elevating your magnesium level 300-400 ppm using Tech M. Some hobbyists have reported success with various species of algae using this method.

i have been dosing this product for a month and a half now. no ill happenins' and no algea. good sh*t.

Nadzchris,

Glad to hear AF worked for you. ;)

How long did you dose AF at the every three day interval rate?

Are you dosing once per week now?

How many doses did it take to get good control of your algae?

is this product toxic?

Everything is toxic at some level. Are you asking how toxic it is to humans or how toxic it is to tank inhabitants?

For a discussion regarding the AlgaeFix toxicity for reef inhabitants see the thread below.

Chemical Control of Algae?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1596521

For the toxicity of AlgaeFix to humans see this MSDS sheet:

http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/ms...aefix_2456.pdf

how much should I dose of algeafix freshwater for my 90g softy/shroom/reef tank. It has a 15g sump and roughly 60lbs LR. Will this product harm shrimp?snails?urchin? I noticed on its label it warns against use with crustaceans.

One method I know of to help determine the accuracy of your tank water volume is to use the reef chemical calculator, estimate the amount of water volume and then increase your alk by about 2 dKH using baking soda. After you do this you can check your results after re-testing to make adjustments in your total water volume. You will have to be patient with this technique as it may take some time to do this safely.

Reef chemicals calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

Regarding the Algaefix for freshwater vs for saltwater, we have been told by a rep. who works for the same company that they are identical. The difference is the labeling on the container. You will need to use the freshwater version per the label for AlgaeFix Marine.

This is the label for AlgaeFix Marine:

I typed the information from the label as best as I can. I am not responsible if I did not type it correctly.

"Benefits: AlgaeFix marine effectively controls these types of saltwater algae: Green algae (Cladaphora), "Red Loine" (Oscillatoria/Spirulina major), "Brown algae" (Cyclotela) in marine aquarium containing live corals, invertebrates and fish. When used in salt water will not harm snails, clams,scallops, shrimp, anemones, sea cucumbers, feather dusters, coralline algae, soft corals, hard corals and other invertebrates. Does not discolor the water or cause foaming.

Directions for use: It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Add 1 ml (1/5 tsp. for each 10 US gallons (38 L) or 5 ml (1 tsp.) for each 50 US gallons (190 L) or 50 ml. (10 tsp.) for each 500 US gallons (1,890 L) of aquarium water. Repeat dose every 3 days until algae is controlled. Siphon or scrape any dead algae from aquarium. Once algae growth is under control, add one dose per week. Weekly doses of AlgaeFix Marine will control Algae growth and reduce aquarium maintenance.

Precautionary Statement
Hazards to humans & domestic animals.

Caution: Harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with skin, eyes or clothing. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Note: This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer.

First Aid: If on skin, thoroughly wash with soap and water and remove contaminated clothing. If in eyes, hold eye open and gently flush with water for 15 minutes. If Swallowed, call a Poison Control Center or doctor immediately for treatment advice.

Storage and Disposal: Do not contaminate water or feed. Do not reuse empty bottle. Rinse throughly before discarding in trash."

FWIW, I am not going to personally state that the marine version and frewater version are identical. I am just passing on information. :lol:

has anyone had issue with shrimp dying from dosing this product? Im just worried about 120 bucks of ornamental shrimp dying.

There have been a couple of hobbyists who have reported loss of shrimp, which they could not directly attribute to AF, but were highly suspicious for lack of other possibilities. ;)

FWIW, I would not recommend trying to increase your mag level using Tech M to control your algae due to some reports of dead shrimp & other invertebrates.

ive trieed elevated mag...didnt work very well for my type of algea

Perhaps someone can hold your shrimp while you try the AlgaeFix. AlgaeFix will brake down within 24 hrs. So there should not be any risk after you have tried. :)

to humans, do you think we need to avoid hands in water when using this product?

well a cleaner just kicked the bucket but the others are still fine. he was old and not as healthy as the others...prolly the push over the edge.

The EPA considers this product safe and you should follow the safety guideline stated on the above label. The precautions apply to the concentrated product in the original bottle. So according to these directions you should where gloves and protection when handling the concentrate in the bottle. I don't see much of a problem personally, once the product is diluted into tank water. ;)

Your guess would be as good as mine as to why that old shrimp kicked the bucket. Certainly shrimp are sensitive to heavy metals which were elevated during your mag. increase. It is possibly that is why he kicked the bucket. :(

i raised mag over a year ago. its been 1350 for well over 9mths. im not complaining just simply conveying my experience. If I lose my pr of fires Ill be complaining though

Personally, I would not take the risk with any expensive coral, shrimp or other marine organisms and use AF. I would follow my Dad's advice, "Never gamble more than you can afford to loose." :lol:

In my experience: In higher concentrations, AF will adversely affect coral.

Of course, i had a brain fart and dosed 5x the recommended amount. However, all my surviving corals are very sensitive to AF Marine now.

A 5x dose would push the levels of the active ingredient closer to what it is used for as a biocide sterilant (which if I recall correctly is around 10X). :(

so only use if you have nothing of worth to lose. pardon me but who here has nothing to lose? everyone has something slightly expensive...thats a part of the hobby.

i have had mag at 1500 for a few months and used the AF for approx. eight doses and all HA is gone and there was one different type of algae that was much more resilient but it has been beat .i must add that i also installed a good quality RO/DI unit and that took a month but put the kabosh on all the algae . IMO i think all along it was my first RO unit as i tested the TDS and it was quite high (16) then i installed the new unit TDS(00) and it took a few water changes but then the po4 suddenly dropped .in retrospect the AF never hurt any of my fish or corals and it did in fact demolish the hair algae .there was a different type that was resilient but then the low po4 took care of the rest .also i do have many cleaner and blood shrimp along with hundreds of snails and crabs and didn't lose any except the usual amount to my wrasses .

Cliff,

Am I correct in what I read that AF is not doing much against siphonous algaes like bryopsis and derbesia?

Is anyone trying it for these?

redfishsc,

AF does not seem to work well with bryopsis or derbesia. Several hobbyists have tried it against byopsis and did not achieve control. I have a derbesia (siphoning algae) and did not achieve good control after dosing AF for quite an extended period of time.

I thought you had tried the mag elevation method?

I hear what you are saying. Hobbyists take risks when they dose carbon sources, use high pH alk supplements, Add additional micro-nutrients, start to run GAC............etc. :lol:

FWIW, the risk for loosing coral, shrimp, crabs or other occupants while dosing AF, doesn't seem to be any worse. I have seen more hobbyists loose coral and tank occupants from the above then while dosing AF.

I don't have any shrimp or crabs in my system. I do have snails. I dosed AF for quite an extended period of time (several months at the 3 day interval) without losing coral or snails. It did kill my chaeto after extended dosing. ;) I would not recommend that hobbyists do this though, as there seems to be more negative results from prolonged dosing of AF. ;)

Still, if you have occupants that you have a great attachment too, I would take precautions and remove them from your tank while you dose AF. Most advanced hobbyists have a quarantine tank that can be used for the purpose and if you don't have one I would highly recommend one. :)

stevedola,

AlgaeFix does not work on all species of algae. If you have a good quality pic (prefereably some focused close-ups) it may help to determine what algae type you have. :)

I think hobbyists should be aware about the heavy metal concentrations in tanks regarding shrimp & other invertebrates. From what I have read, the heavy metal concentrations found in average tanks normally approach the levels that can kill shrimp (invertebrates). The salt mix concentrations are very high. Some hobbyists unknowing supplement heavy metals in various mixes they add. Food will add heavy metals. Mag & calcium supplements will add more. Kalk & calcium reactors add more yet. One of the newer salt mixes has listed much higher than most salt mix levels of copper. IMHO, shrimp & other similar invertebrates may die due to excessive heavy metals concentrations in their tanks and have no idea this is the reason. FWIW, AlgaeFix could be easily wrongly blamed for the deaths. :)

Is there an identification website somewhere for algae? I have a type that grows in small mounds that is dark green in color. I tried Algaefix over a year ago but it did not work. The algae died off but it is back now in the same spots.

There are various websites that help ID algae. The best one can hope for IMHO, is to differential various macroalgae from microalgae. Identifying algae will take the use of a microscope along with lots of knowledge regarding algae and IDing procedures. I have several mycology text books which help, but you also need the various stages that algae take (ie. spore stages) to begin to properly ID the algae. IMHO most algae have not been properly IDed at this point and the algae we have can come from most places in the world. :)

If AlgaeFix controlled your algae once before, then most likely it did not completely eradicate it from your tank. It only takes a few cells to repopulate over a short period of time. In this case, I would re-treat using AF at the three day interval until your pest is controlled. Perhaps continue dosing weekly for a while and then watch for signs of a comeback. ;)

Pug, I would be interested in any pics you can provide. ;)

My camera will not take close-ups very well. I just went home on lunch and pulled some out and looked at it under a magnifying glass. It grows to be about a half inch long and some strands have forks in them. There also looks to be small black seeds on some of the strands. This is only visible using the 10x magnifying glass. The Algaefix did not work last time. This algae died 6 months after I stopped dosing it. I do not know what made it die. It just started withering one day and breaking apart. I have some regular hair algae that I was going to use the Algaefix on but I had the issue a few days ago with adding too much GAC that you helped me with. I do wish I could get a picture and looking at several websites I have not seen anything that directly resembles it.

Your description fits too many algae types. If AlgaeFix did not work, I assume you achieved control due to better husbandry practices. I would work on this algae using better husbandry practices. It could be one of the siphoning algae, which have very large cells extending into branches of the algae. So one cell may comprise several branches you are seeing. The only way you will be able to see this would be under a microscope. Derbesia is one of these algae and is fairly common. ;)

FWIW, many macroalgae are siphoning algae (Bryopsis & Kelp) and this is one reason why they are so difficult to control.

A picture of Despersia-marinea which seems to be a common pest in reef tanks:


http://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/FPAS/bcs...ia-marinea.jpg

From my experience, AlgaeFix does not work on the derbesia. ;)

You are the man! It looks just like the Derbesia pics on web. So, I should be able to control this by just improving my water quality? Thanks again!