Chads, I had that red capet all over my tank and I found red hermits absolutely love to eat it.

A few posts back, someone was upgrading from an 85 to a 150 and was going to bleach or boil his rock to kill the algae so he wouldn't have it in the 150. Isn't hair algae always present when conditions are ripe for it? I don't know how it gets in there, but it seems like a fools errand if you think you can keep it out by quarantine.

I had looked into getting a sea cucumber, but had decided that from the results other hobbyists seem to have with them (usually they end up dieing due to starvation), I would not.

This is a good article regarding Sea Cucumbers:

AQUARIUM INVERTEBRATES by ROB TOONEN, Ph.D.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...003/invert.htm

From this article:

"In general, the chemicals which appear to protect the sea cucumbers from being eaten are saponins (soap-like compounds) which are derived from triterpenoids (Ponomarenko et al. 2001; Stonik and Elyakov 1988). These chemicals usually work well to discourage many generalist predators, and unfortunately are also likely to seriously impact, and potentially even wipe out all their tankmates in a reef aquarium (the so-called ‘cuke-nuke’)."

Sorry to hear about your disaster R.D.M. :( I just finished my 11th dose of AlgaeFix. I'm doing one more dose tomorrow, then switch to a weekly maintenance dose. It had absolutely no negative effects on my fish, Coral, CUC,
Clam, or my large Sabae Anemone. I put in my first SPS frag, a Setosa, and I was hoping that it wouldn't affect that frag, and it hasn't. Good PE on the Setosa. The rest of my corals are LPS with a couple zoos. It has definitely made a big dent in my GHA, but for the first time ever, I have some Cyano. It's not bad, but I decided to do a 3 days lights out this weekend before it gets worse. I still have a good amount of GHA, but definitely a lot less than before using AlgaeFix. I'm overdue replacing my Phosban, but I was waiting to change it out until I finished the dosing of AlgaeFix. I'm going to change it out tomorrow or Tuesday, so hopefully the GHA will continue to decline. AlgaeFix obviously does something to battle Algae, because my glass was getting pretty bad if I didn't clean it every other day. Now, while dosing the Algae fix, the glass is just barely getting dirty by the 5th day after cleaning.

Pammy,

Great to hear your results. :)

It is not uncommon that cyano appears after using AlgaeFix. One possible reason may be the increased amount of dead and dieing algae which serves to feed the cyano.

Can you use AF in conjunction with Vodka and MB7?

I can't think of any reason as to why not. :)

highlander, its probably in your post somewhere, just wondering what kind of sps you have, Im thinking about using the AF but afraid of loosing expensive corals. I see others post horror stories, I wonder why it works good for some and bad for others. I see you have a high number of post, so your not new to this, some that post bad results have low number of post, (are they working with a new tank) are they new to RC or new to the hobby???? Not trying to discredit anyone, just trying to make an informed desision.

On a local site I posted about AF, and one reply was that AF takes the oxygen out of the water, that's how it kills the algae, any idea if this is correct? It doesn't seem possible cause that would kill fish and corals.

thanks jeremy

Jeremy,

I believe that AlgaeFix should be used as a last resort to control algae, especially if you have a lot of expensive organisms in your tank. I do not have expensive sps in my tank. ;)

There have been some hobbyists who have posted in this thread that have lost some coral and other organisms while dosing AlgaeFix. I dosed AlgaeFix for quite an extended period of time without loosing any coral. AlgaeFix does not work well on all algal species.

From my readings AlgaeFix kills algae in simple terms by causing a hole in their cell membrane allowing the contents of the cell to leak out. Many algae such as the siphoning algae, have superior methods of repairing their cell membrane and are not effected as much. The chemical ingredient in AlgaeFix, at least at higher concentrations, will indiscriminately kill all micro-organisms. Some of my concerns while using AlgaeFix, would be any effects that it may have on the symbiotic algae within coral tissues. These symbiotic algae within the coral tissues are somewhat protected. AlgaeFix does brake down quickly, with in 24 hrs. I would assume that AlgaeFix may have effects on bacteria and other micro-organisms in a reef system. The issues at hand while using AlgaeFix are very complex and many unknown possibilities exist. In conclusion, AlgaeFix is a product that is potentially dangerous in a reef system.

For those hobbyists who do decide to try AlgaeFix, there is a concern regarding the dead and dieing algae once AlgaeFix kills algae in a reef system. These dead and dieing algae will be broken down by other organisms (bacteria & cyano) and their contents will be released into the water column, which may cause blooms and lack of oxygen. Is is important to remove the dead & dieing algae as well as the living algae.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FWIW, this is what I normally post regarding fighting algae:

There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest. Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a catagory correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these catagories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______


If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...8#post16056708

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.

thank you very much for the info, most of the things on your list Ive already done, there are a few things I can try before using the AF.
This is my SPS tank, so that why I'm so leery about using something like this, I do have a lighted fuge, that might be were the algae is getting feed from. Thanks again, a lot of great info.
jeremy

Your welcome.

Good luck ;)

I had a bad hair algae outbreak that was consuming my zoo frags. I dosed this stuff and it was entirely gone in less than a week. This stuff worked great. Did not affect skimmer or chaeto. Will definitely use again. Probably not a solution to the problem, but certainly an effective treatment

Hi Jeremystotts, I am one of the few that used AF and lost alot of corals, especially sps and zoos. If you dose, check your corals as often as you can. Good luck!

thanks, If you don't mind me asking how old was your tank when you dosed, just trying to get as much info as possible before I decide to use it. Ive only been doing reef for a couple years, I'm still asking a lot of questions.
jeremy

I upgraded 1 1/2 year ago from 55g to 100g, but the sand and the rock were in my 55g for about 3 - 4 years. Follow Highlandreefer advise and dont take things for granted! If you a lot of corals, try other methods before AF. AF should be use as "last resource". Good luck!

my pops tank has a serious HA problem and we've tried everything. The lights out for 3 days trick works but eventually it comes back. He mainly has softies with a few lps. Ive been thinking that maybe going lights out and having all of the algea clear off the rocks and then starting to dose AF might be a good solution to his problem.

from all of the efforts to combat this HA prob ive concluded the rock was the main culprit of the HA.

what do you think of my plan?

There are several advantages to your plan. Eliminating the algae to start with, will reduce the amount of dieing algae produced by the treatment, which will mean less nutrients entering back into your water column. The extra nutrients added can induce further algae growth.

Less algae to kill, may mean the AlgaeFix will be more effective.

Having your system sort to speak good to go ahead of time, will provide a less conducive environment for algae growth. This would include no algae in your system (at least minimal amounts), low phosphate, low nitrate, low dissolved organic matter in your water column, low suspended organic material, clean rock of bacteria other debris, Clean sand surface & reduced lighting. ;)

Im still trying other things, I have started using AF on a smaller tank I have that has my cheaper stuff in it to see how it acts.
thanks for the response

Let us know your results. Always interested in postive or negative results. ;)

I did 12 doses of AlgaeFix every 3 days as recommended, and Sunday was my first weekly maintenance dose. I'd say about 70% of the GHA in my tank is gone, and most of what remains, is dying. I did also have a small patch of red bubble algae (small patch, of large red bubbles) and just found a bubble stuck to a powerhead, and siphoned out another bubble I found floating around when I did my last water change, so it seems that the AlgaeFix is working on the red bubble algae as well. I did get a little Cyano for the first time ever in my tank after using the AlgaeFix for about 11 doses, so I shut off my lights for 3 days, about 9 days ago, and don't see a trace of the Cyano now. I didn't see any negative effects at all on any of my fish, coral or inverts. Below is a list of what I have in my tank for livestock. I took the first 4 pictures below of my tank, right before I started dosing AlgaeFix, and I took the last 5 pictures last night, after 12 doses of AlgaeFix (every 3 days) and my first weekly maintenance dose.
I'm not sure why some people have had losses with AlgaeFix, and others like myself saw absolutely no effects. I wonder what is different?? I do still have some GHA in my tank, which you can see if you compare the 4th and 5th pictures taken of the same spot, but you can see I'm well on my way to eradicating it all. I think this product could save a lot of people from quitting the hobby. Obviously, you have to take steps to permanently fix the problem and lower nutrients, nitrates, phosphates etc in your tank, but some people do everything they can think of to do that, and still can't get rid of problem algae, so for me, this was a way to get ahead of the problem. One more thing to note, the new Setosa SPS frag I got, was added while dosing AlgaeFix, and 3weeks later, the frag is still doing well, has good PE and is growing. :)

Current livestock in my tank, no effects at all from AlgaeFix:

Large Sabae Anemone
Crocea Clam
Sandsifting Starfish
Tuxedo Urchin
Pistol Shrimp
Fighting Conch
2 Scarlett Crabs
Nacarrius, Bumblebee, Astrea and Cerith Snails
Fish (Splendid Goby, Flame Hawkfish, 2 Occellaris clowns, Royal Gramma, Bartletts Anthias, Six Line Wrasse)
Coral (mostly LPS including a Dendro, Duncan, Sun Coral, Frogspawn and Hammer, a couple of zoos and 1 new SPS Setosa frag).


Pictures of my tank right before I started dosing AlgaeFix on November 5, 2009:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...eFix11-5-1.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...eFix11-5-2.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...eFix11-5-4.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...Fix11-5-20.jpg


Pictures of my tank after 12 doses of AlgaeFix and 1st weekly maintenance dose - December 21, 2009.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...1-12-21-09.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...3-12-21-09.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...4-12-21-09.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-12-21-09.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...-Dec212009.jpg

Yeah. :thumbsup:

:dance::dance::dance:

Pam,

Great pictures and documentation for other hobbyists that may be interested in trying AlgaeFix. :D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few things I have noticed regarding some negative effects from using AlgaeFix:

1) Low salinity (lower than 1.024) and AlgaeFix do not mix and will result in problems. For this reason, I would recommend that any hobbyist that decides to try AlgaeFix use an accurate method of measuring salinity (not hydrometers) like a properly calibrate refractometer. In addition, I would recommend that any hobbyist who decides to try AlgaeFix has a good understanding of all the other water parameters before trying it and uses good quality test kits. For example, a very low alk (below 7.0 dKH and perhaps a very high alk above 12.0 dKH), may result in negative effects. Low phosphate levels and low nitrate levels will no doubt be important too. ;)

2) If a hobbyist is going to try AlgaeFix, I would recommend removing any sea cucumbers from the tank first. There have been several hobbyists who have had negative results with this combination. :(

3) Any hobbyist who decides to try AlgaeFix should avoid dosing it per the instructions for more than 10-12 doses, as some hobbyists have noticed problems after dosing it every three days for that long.

4) Finally, before using AlgaeFix make sure of your water volume so that it is not overdosed. Follow and understand the directions completely before dosing it.

Interesting info Cliff. My salinity is always between 1.025 and 1.026 (calibrate refractometer using pinpoint salinity calibration solution).
Glad to help other hobbyists in some small way. Your contributions to this thread were an enormous help to me, and I'm sure a lot of others. I read this thread for a long time before trying AlgaeFix, while the GHA in my tank gradually got worse and worse. I wanted to use it only as a last resort and try traditional methods of getting rid of the GHA first, but as you can see by my overflow, it was getting out of control. I really didn't want to resort to chemicals. I'm amazed at how such a small dose every 3 days, could work so well. I figured with rock and sand displacement, my 60 gallon total volume was closer to 50 gallons, so I went with 5ml/1tsp every 3 days based on 50 gallons.

I have read thru most of this thread tonight and really appreciate all the time that has went into the post so far. I have tried everything to get rid of HA. I am palnning on pulling most of my rock out this weekend and scrubbing it. My question is did anyone try the AlgeaFix FW? The reason I ask is my local Petsmart sells the freshwater version and I would like to start dosing after cleaning the rock. I think Cliff had said earlier the active ingrediants werw the same. Would the FW version be safe? Thanks

My recommendation would be to use the AlgaeFix for Marine to be absolutely safe. The manufacturer may have other ingredients in it that we are not aware of, like Boomer had mentioned for perhaps buffering for example. You can buy it online. ;)

I spoke to the manufacture about 6 months ago, they said they are exactly the same. The only difference is the freshwater does not have the list of marine algae it will kill.

"Nick there is no difference between the Algaefix and Marine Algaefix. The products are the same the Marine simply tells you what algae can be treated.

If you have any other questions or wish to discuss this further, please email back or give us a call at 1-800-847-0659.

Best Regards,

Nathan Fekula
Technical Service and Research
Mars Fishcare"

Thanks for the information Nathan. :)

It's nice to hear this from the manufacturer's representative. ;)

Any other information regarding your product that you may be able to provide is certainly welcome on my part. IMHO, AlgaeFix is a nice tool to have in the never ending battle of algae control in the reef aquarium. The more one understands exactly how this product works in the reef aquarium, the more beneficial it is in making decisions on how to best utilize it. Hats off to Mars for having this product approved by EPA. :thumbsup: