Ha! That's what I figured - you're hanging around LED forums now. I'd love to see an update on your tank! How about a current FTS? Thanks for the damsel recommendation. Gorgeous fish! Does he get along with the clowns?

I frequent the 4Runner boards to gather ideas for future projects. Haha
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f9eb329dc.jpg

The clown picks on the damsel somewhat, but it doesn’t keep the damsel from swimming where it wants. The bi-color blenny hangs out in its shell in the upper back corner and swims around up front. It doesn’t get picked on or pick on anything, but the glass. Lol
Waiting for the lfs to get another Pygmy cherub angel though. They haven’t gotten any in a while now.
Cleaned up the 2.5g and found a little purple crab in the back! Going to the beach in 2 weeks and plan to make it a beach only tank. Currently has a hermit and little conch in it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3fd6b354d9.jpg

That actually was the most recent FTS, from June. Haha I’ll have to take another today.

Ok, I promised pics of the new fake wall progress and here it is. Note that I didn't say GOOD pics…

http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79882


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79883

This project has proved difficult. It took me all day yesterday to get this done. PITA! I may need another sheet of egg crate, to get better transitions.

I've been trying to figure out how best to get what I want, with the new fake wall. What I want is a wall that contains and hides the wave box and flow-through vents, and also looks natural and flows into the back wall, and tapers naturally down to the bottom, as well as towards the front glass. This could be achieved easily enough with lots of foam, but then you have buoyancy issues. And going back and removing foam would be difficult, with the egg crate. So ideally the foam is a fairly thin skin. I'm finding using the egg crate alone to be difficult work into natural, flowing shapes.

I think a better solution would be to sculpt the shape I want with a filler material, and then foam over it. Then I'd need to remove the filler and attach the foam skin to the egg crate structure. Using a removable filler would allow me to play around with it to get a good look, before I commit to foam.

I have had success with a filler material in the past, with the fake mangrove root. Anyone remember what I used? Tin foil! Could that work? I think so. Fortunately, I could try this out without destroying the progress I've made, so I think I'll give it a try.

So I'll first sculpt the shape I want in foil. Then I'll cover that with a plastic garbage bag. Then I'll foam over that. Next I'll remove the foam skin, remove the foil, then attach the foam skin to the egg crate structure. For attachment points, I'll just need make it so there is no foil in some places, so I can adhere the foam directly to the framework here and there.

Thoughts? Does this sound plausible?

It sounds plausible, especially since you used a similiar process for the fake mangrove root. I am speaking from absoluting no experience in this area whatsoever so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Cool about the goby, but a bummer that it took the place of a barnacle blenny. Any chance Liveaquaria will send you another blenny?

That damsel is beautiful! Sweet! Sounds like the project is coming along too. Have you considered using PVC is a support for your egg crate, since the foam will be away from the tank edge, maybe it will help prevent the foam from changing shape due to buoyancy? You can use a heat gun to bend the shapes to get better contours and get rid of straight lines. Maybe that would work on the egg crate too? I haven't tried using a heat gun on egg crate. No matter what you wind up using, I'm sure it will look great. I like your idea about the filler material and using the plastic bag to keep foam from sticking to it. As frustrated as you might get, when it's done, your creative juices will be rewarded when you get to sit back and admire your work...as will we ;)

Thanks Dawn, I appreciate the support!

Thanks Kevin! I didn't bother about the goby, and now it's been months, so no worries.

I'm not sure what you mean on the PVC. Like a sheet of plastic backing on the egg crate? I was thinking I would need to do something like that, before I came up with the filler idea. I think my idea will work. I'll need to get the plastic bag material adhered to the foil, maybe with a spray glue.

It's funny, I was writing about the project and I just sort of stumbled on the idea, as I went. That has happened several times when I've posted about challenging situations. Just talking about a problem can lead right to the solution! I tend to do things in a linear fashion, rather than planning it all out in advance. "I'll start with this and see what should come next" is pretty much how I do stuff.

This project has been a catch-22 for me. Since I've kind of dreaded it, little gets done. So I inch along in small, tolerable steps. If this new idea works, things should pick up. And it should look really good if all goes well…

When it begins to come together for you, does it ignite you and get you on the jazz? When I catch a glimpse (in my mind) of the finished product I turn into a maniac about getting it finished.

Yes it does Dawn! When I'm struggling and I get a glimpse of the way forward, that's when I get jazzed. Now I'm looking forward to making some real progress.

I've been doing a lot of damsel watching these days. I'm still marveling at how mellow these guys are. Especially the tuxedo. Despite his superior size, he doesn't bother anyone. I've read they're less sociable than the humbugs. So I'll only keep a few, say four of them.

The neon is still kind of nervous and shy. It looks like a schooling fish without a school. I may try seven or so of them. The thought of keeping a group of these fish has me very excited!

The talbot died after a few weeks. It was a model citizen as well. I like the yellow color too. I may try adding another one to the QT. I see this one as another larger school candidate of seven or so.

The springer's has done well too. Being the oldest resident, he seems the most comfortable. A good looking fish, but I'll probably only do one blue variety, and the neon wins that contest. Looks similar to a blue devil, but angel suits it better. Plus it eats flatworms. Maybe I'll just keep the one for flat worm control.

The yellowtail and the azure are two other damsels with chill reputations. I haven't tried them yet, but I may. Right now they're my alternates.

I've been trying to determine a pecking order of the three that I have. But no one picks on anyone, so it's hard to say. I'll give it more time.

I have kept blue tail damsels in groups of 3 when I had my 90 gallon reef. They are a laid back quiet specie of damsel from my experience. My reef was more agressive in those days however with a small snowflake eel, a puffer and small lionfish.

I was thinking that maybe a sturdy frame of PVC pipe might help to anchor the wall and assist the egg crate with keeping the foam's flotation from being an issue. If the structure isn't very thick, there might be a risk from the force of the foam trying to float, causing it to split or crack. Maybe a frame would prevent that? I guess that these materials are cheap enough that after you try building your structure and test it underwater, you'll have an idea if you need to do anything further or not. You know what you're doing though, having experience with these things. And maybe egg crate is sturdy enough.

I'm the same way. It's like a DIY aquarist's version writer's block...LOL

Oh, I see what you mean - additional structural support, using pic pipe. I'll keep that in my back pocket. My egg crate structure is pretty sturdy, so hopefully I won't need it. We'll see how my plan works. I think my biggest concern will be attachment points, between the foam and the structure. I can also attach the foam skin to the light diffuser on the bottom of the tank that the back wall is attached to. Once I get to work, I should be able to see any other issues I haven't thought of. Wish me luck!

Dawn, I haven't heard of a blue tail damsel. A quick google search didn't help. Did you mean yellow tail?

Wow, what a change, from a Rambo reef to a peaceful seahorse garden!

Oops, yes I did mean yellow tail. Sometimes I think my fingers have dementia!

I know, I seem to gravitate to the extremes.

Yeah, your plan sounds good, not that much foam used to be a problem. I don't know if you have a heat gun or not, but they are pretty cool with shaping plastics and PVC. Also, they help stuff dry faster. Just keep them away from the foam unless you are trying to get a texture effect or look. If you use them on foam, be careful not to heat the foam too much because it will catch fire and leave a nasty smell in the room...Now, how would I know that? :worried:

If you are interested, I can do a test to try and see if I can shape some egg crate with mine. I'm curious how it would turn out. I was thinking that might help reduce the amount of foam that you'd need to get those curved shapes and edges.

Thanks for the offer, Kevin! Let me see how my plan goes first. Since I think I'll be able attach the foam to the structure in multiple places, I shouldn't need to mess with the egg crate. Plus I need that underlying structure to stay the way it is.

OK, no problem. I think that I misunderstood the role of the egg crate. I can't wait to see what you come up with :beer:

Yeah, with my plans changing on the fly, the role of the egg crate has evolved. I don't even think I understand it!

It's interesting how we modify our methods and techniques. Experience is so valuable. I wish that I knew today what I learned while creating my structures. I may have done a few things differently. Also, the overall process would be much faster now that I know how to overcome the obstacles that stumped me along the way. I let the obstacles get to me and slow me down, for weeks even, but usually they are critical steps in the process that determine whether or not I'll be happy with the final product. I'm glad that I took the time and came up with solutions to the road blocks, because the final product satisfies me. So, to recreate what I've done, those time gaps would be eliminated. That said, with revised methods and techniques, there could be new road blocks. It's an obsession with perfection, I guess.

Agreed! I'd add that the harder it is to get through, the more satisfying the final results. While I know I'm not the best fake wall builder, I feel like I can get it done to a level where I'll be satisfied with it. And getting it done will be a huge relief, and one of the last hurdles to get over before I can fill my aquarium with life again.

That is the goal. Don't sell yourself short. Your wall looked just like your plan and turned out great IMHO. Between the wall and your mangrove root, that's what got me hooked on your thread to begin with ;)

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate the support! I'm so glad to hear the root and the wall were inspiring.

Me too, I loved the idea of a harem of royal grammas living in holes in the wall and the mangrove root was brilliant. The look it gave your tank is so unique.

Thanks Dawn! Can't wait to get it up and running again!

:bigeyes:The weekend is almost here Michael, no pressure but we will all be waiting on Monday morning to see the progress on the tank.:bigeyes:

I can't wait to see it when it is finished, with the gramma harem, all those beautiful damsels, and the barnacle blennies (...and the goby), with those beautiful macros and grasses swaying in the current with the fish. Pics won't do it justice, we will need a video :D

You two!

Ok, so here's my first shot at using the foil as a filler for the fake wall. Not too bad. That top left transition is too straight, but I think I can fix it. I'd like to get it close to perfect but it doesn't have to be. The foam should fix most parts that aren't. Getting there!


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79884

Where's the like button?

I get what you are trying to do now. This will be cool.

Like!

You two are like my own psychiatric team! You're pushing me make a big breakthrough!

Looks like your about to cook a bunch of potatoes. Haha :D

I know it looks nuts right? To really push it over the edge, I need to incorporate some duct tape! Whatever it takes…

The funny thing is that internet forums and social media have pushed me as an aquarist to boundaries and accomplishments that I never thought that I could do. If you can envision it, you can do it, is the message. I see that in your past and current builds, as well as the builds of others, and that is also inspiring to us, to keep us motivated in our ventures. I like to think that perhaps I do the same for others as well in return. I've learned so much from my internet friends/colleagues sharing their experiences. Never in my dreams would I have imagined building the fake wall in a tank like I did (although it isn't finished, it's almost there) and my dream oyster reef biotope tank (even though it's a mini version of my dream). If these resources weren't available to me, I might have a tank with a stack of rocks for my river tank, or a Chesapeake Bay tank with shell rubble piled on the bottom with perhaps some dead coral rock supporting them (not that there is anything wrong with that). This is quite a hobby now, much more so than when I was a kid.

:lmao:

Ha ha, I thought you were going to say that we are pushing you 'over the edge!'

Right on Kevin! I've used this forum to raise my game for sure. I figure that once I put it out there, I'm committed to follow through. I'd be embarrassed to bail! So I keep attempting stuff I wouldn't normally do. I read a lot of different threads too. You never know where you'll get inspiration. So we all inspire each other to be better aquarists.

Now I better go check on my potatoes…

Over the edge, ha! I'm not even sure where the edge is anymore!

Besides the great encouragement I get here, the thing that's pushing me the most is my empty, lifeless tank. I really hate seeing it like this. It's embarrassing!

Boy, what a difference location makes. It looked fine, sitting on the floor.

I put my new fake wall assembly, with the foil in place, in my tank. It's too much! Way too intrusive. So glad I looked at it first. I'm going to have to modify the structure and I think I'll go back to foaming right on/in the egg crate. I snapped a few pics.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79888
So now I'm modeling an abandoned silver mine that's been flooded by rising sea levels…

http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79887
I think I can go thinner with just the foam.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79885
Looking at this is giving me ideas on how to refine the structure. It's got to be curvier - no straight lines. I also need to account for the wave box output and the main return. I'm thinking irregularly shaped holes would look more natural than round ones. I plan to add some overhang to the back wall, at the top left, that will transition to the new wall. This will help, but I'm also just going to have to adjust to the extent of the intrusion.

OK, so I did some more staring and thinking. How to make the new fake wall less intrusive?

If I could move the wave box back, the bulky enclosure would be smaller, and I'd have a longer distance to transition down towards the front glass. That would do it. But I can't move it back because that would put the outside magnets on the wet side, in the overflow. I thought about shrink wrapping them, and realized they'd need to be held in position together, in one unit. So I fashioned a spacer from egg crate and wrapped the whole thing with packing tape.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79890
This magnet assembly allows me to move the wave box back about four inches. This is very good!


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79889
New placement of the wave box. You can see where the magnets were before the move. I'm not worried about it blocking the overflow because only one, two inch diameter magnet blocks flow. The box is about a quarter inch off the wall - the thickness of the magnets.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79891
This sketch shows the new shape of the fake wall, in yellow. With four more inches of space between the left edge of the wave box and the front glass, I have much more space to transition/taper it towards the front.

Better.

A little revision on the sketch. I wanted to give myself more transition room around the bottom left corner of the wave box, marked in green. The transition is between the green lines.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79892
Moving the wave box really helps the design.

Yay! Design evolution! Better-er.

Thanks for all the great pics of what you are doing. I am beginning to envision what you have in mind and I really like it!

Thanks Dawn! I'm starting to like it too! Got up this morning and got after it.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79897
The sketch, along with the full-sized paper template. This was my guide for cutting the face and back pieces


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79896
New structure, basically in place. I was able to piece together egg crate to bridge the transition, from the face to the back. I think this design is less intrusive and I think it will work. Woohoo!


http://reefcentral.com/forums/pictur...ictureid=79895
From straight on. The blue thing is the propeller blades of the wave box pump. It looks pretty angular here, but I should be able to get some nice, natural looking curves.

It's funny, I never intended to take so many pics through this process. It's just that I was working things out, on the fly, and recording visually what was going on, was helpful. Hopefully, it's helpful to you, to see what I'm doing.

Looks much better!

Do something about the 90 degree transition to the back wall now. Lol

You could also make it cut back under the wave box towards the bottom corner or make a cave out of it.

Thanks Sam! Yes, there will be transition to the back wall, as well as some added overhang. I just need to add some backing and I'll be ready to foam!

I like how you were able to get the curve in there. I would not have thought that was possible with egg crate. That will definitely help it look more natural and authentic. It is really getting exciting now!

And yes, all those pictures were very helpful, otherwise I would not have a clue what your vision is for the tank. You have given excellant step by step instructions in case someone else wants to give it a go.

Nice progress! And thanks for including some pictures so we can see what you are envisioning! Looking forward to the foaming. :0)

Thanks Dawn and McPuff! Thanks everyone, for the encouragement! I'm glad you like it. I am much happier with this design. Now I'm psyched to move forward! FOAM!

Looking good Michael!!! Thanks for the pics and sketches. I like the new design, and your plan to blend in the straight lines and edges. This is going to be really cool.

Thanks Kevin! I think I can work with the new design. Moving the wave box back was a huge factor. Now all I need is an adhesive-backed plastic sheet to put on the back of the egg crate, to limit the foam's penetration, keeping it thinner and less buoyant.