What kind of seahorse is this?

[FutureBoyGenius]

I have him in a 20gallon tall tank. I am not running a skimmer. I am running a biowheel hang-on filter that is made for a 60 gallon. I just replaced an mj1200 with a koralia #1 for more dispersed flow. He lives with a pistol shrimp and a clown fish. I feed him 1/4 of a frozen block of mysis shrimp every day. The nitrates are at about 20ppm, but he seems to be pretty hardy and doing ok. I am desperately trying to get the nitrates down to 0. It seems that water changes hardly affet it. I keep the temperature at about 80F.

I would like to move him to at least to a 29gallon and maybe introduce another horse or two. I would also like to grow some macro in there for him to hang on to.

Do yall have any suggestions? Or information? Or warnings?

[JennyL]

If you keep this horse at 80 the horse will die. Get the temp down to at most 74F. No seahorse can survive in temps that high in an enclosed system.

[FutureBoyGenius]

Thank you, I just lowered the temp. Do you have any idea what kind of horse I have? Or any other suggestions about my setup?

[mollymonticello]

Looks like a pretty yellow male Hippocampus reidi, one of the larger species.

I wouldn't recommend the Koralia with seahorses. There have been reports of seahorses getting their tails mangled by the propeller. Some have died. I also wouldn't recommend the clownfish. It's feeding habits are too aggressive for the seahorse.

A 29 gallon aquarium would be the bare minimum size for a pair of Reidis. I would recommend a canister filter and some more live rock to help with your nitrates.

[philter4]

IME, I wouldn't worry too much about the temp, especially if you have been keeping it for a while. While the "norm" for seahorse keepers is to keep them low, I have never seen them in the ocean in low temps. In the grass flats where I collect reidi the temps regularly go above 85 and are normally over 83 year round. While captive seahorses seem to stress out and be more prone to bacterial infections I have never had trouble with the native horses at higher temps. All of mine are wild caught by me and they were in a spot where twice a day the area is flushed with fresh water in the intercoastal. If it is captive raised I would find out what conditions the fish was kept at and try to match it.

As far as tank size and tank mates, Mollymonticello is correct, it is a larger sp so a bigger tank is better, and they don't compete for food very well so pay attention to it and make sure it is getting food, or remove the clown.

[mollymonticello]

Philter, it's great that you are able to keep WC seahorses. I never liked the argument that "if it is like that in the wild, we should be able to do it in captivity."

In my opinion, keeping seahorses at a high temperature is taking a risk, especially if you don't know the origin, history, or condition of the seahorse.

Vibrio infections are common in captive seahorses. Different species and populations of seahorses carry different strains of Vibrio that they may be resistant to. Vibrio is persistent and can even be carried by copepods. When seahorses are mixed (in your LFS or your aquarium) they are exposed to strains of Vibrio they may not be resistant to.

It has been shown that keeping the temperature at 74* or below will help prevent aggressive Vibrio infections. If your seahorse does indeed develop a Vibrio infection, lower the temperature to 68*.

[philter4]

Mollymonticello, my point is mostly aimed at earlier posts, just because a seahorse is in a tank that is 80* doesn't mean it will die as stated earlier. While I agree that captive or store bought seahorses are at great risk to infections, I got from the post that it is a native seahorse and I have never had trouble with wild natives. Also as I stated in my earlier post, I said if he bought it he should find out and keep it in the same conditions as the previous owners had it.

I have lots of experience, and it is just one of my pet peves when someone says flat out you can't do something, expecially when it isn't true, and while I agree with you on most of your posts, seahorses that have never been exposed to foreign conditions IME have no trouble at trop temps.

[drewber]

In my opionion 80 is a little on the higer side. The reason I prefer to keep my tank in the low 70's is this:

Seahorses are prone to infection.
Infections are caused by bacteria, and its a proven fact that bacteria grows faster at warmer temps.

As far as the nitrates, adding some macro for her to hitch to, will help lower them. As well as trying to clean up food that is not eaten.

I dont see much coraline algea in there, so the tank probably recently finished cycling. If you dont keep the nitrates under control, you may get a unwanted nusiance algea problem on your hands.

I do not want to post links to stores out of fear of breaking forum rules, but I found some neat algeas you might like for your tank. Send me a pm, and I will link you to them.

some of the ones you may want to check out are the differnt colors of kelp, Seamaidens hair, and seagrass.

I personally love the seamaides hair, the one I have is a anthipod heaven.. Gives the horses a snack while im at work

[mollymonticello]

PHilter, I agree that saying the seahores WILL DIE at high temps is a little extreme.

I think the reason your WC seahorses do so well for you is because the transport time is lessened, and you take better care of them during transport. Your seahorses are strong and healthy and have not gone through much stress in their lives. Many seahorses in LFS today come from Asia where they are raising poor-quality seahorses and then shipping them halfway across the world. And since LFS don't segregate their seahorses by species or origin, while the seahorses are there, they are exposed to different strains of Vibrio than they are used to. For example, hardy Erectus seahorses are known for carrying particularly virulent strains of Vibrio that affect other species much worse.

Regarding the temperature situation, I will quote Pledosophy, who is one of the greatest seahorse keepers I know

"It's not just the population of the bacteria that increases with the temperature. The strains of bacteria that are most common to affect seahorses (Vibrio) actually change there protein structure at these higher temperatures. So while the bacteria is producing at a much greater rate (up to duplicating itself every twenty minutes) it is also becoming more virulent (aggressive) at the same time. The seahorses will often be asymptomatic carriers of these bacterias themselves but at the higher temperature with the altered structure they now have no or little resistance to the bacteria. Larger populations of the bacteria are known to cause problems. "

[JennyL]

PHitler ,I do not appreciate being called a liar and just so you know where I am coming from, let me give you a little info about my experience.

I have been keeping and breeding seahorses since 1999.
I have kept and bred 7th gen H erectus,4th gen H zosterae,2nd gen H barbouri plus H reidi, H tuberculatus. I share my experience so you will know I am not just making some wild claim, as you seem to think.

I have seen and heard of too many seahorses that have suffered and died because of high temps. High temps in an enclosed system has been proven over and over that begins with stress and stress leads to disease because the immune system is weakened.

Comparing the ocean to a small enclosed system is a rediculous arguement for obvious reasons.
I am also an experienced scuba diver and have observed seahorses in the wild.
They have the option of going deeper to escape the heat but in an enclosed system they have no options so we must provide the protection they need.

I strongly disagree with your statement that one doesn't need to be concerned with high temps in an enclosed system because that is what is not accurate and imo very harmful advice to give anyone.

I am only concerned that members have success with their charges and when a problem jumps out at me that they can change for the benefit of their stock, I will speak up and try to help from my experience.

I will not post anymore in this thread but I hope people will do their research and realize that high temps will have serious negative affects on their seahorses.

[philter4]

JennyL, I didn't call you a liar, and I never questioned your experience, but I have been keeping seahorses for about 12 years and I keep them in my tropical tanks, I collect them and I have never found them in water in the mid to low seventies. When collected the average temp is in the low to mid 80's. I also said that captive seahorses are different then wild caught. You said that any sea horse kept in the 80's will die. This is not true. It isn't a lie, it is a mistake. As far as wild sea horses being able to go deeper when they are in the grass flats they have no choice, and when out in the sargassum weed it is unreasonable to think they leave that and dive 80 to 100 ft down just to avoid high temps. I fish and when catching dolphin (mahi mahi) some times in there stomachs they are packed full with seahorses, for them to try to leave the protection is suicide. I have been diving when the surface temp was 88 degs and the seahorses were in the weed at the surface and were active and feeding, not stressed or looking for a way to cool off.

I don't want to argue about the experience of any hobbyiest, but what makes your experience ok to give out, but not mine. If you read what I said, I never claimed that keeping a seahorse at lower temps isn't necessary, just that because a seahorse is kept warmer doesn't mean it will die, and I never claimed it is better to keep it warm either, especially if the horse is captive raised. As far as other posts and experience you should read mine before you post the opposite, I say in all of my posts that captive seahorses are not the same as wild caught and that these are my experiences.

[mhltcob]

Originally posted by JennyL
PHitler ,I do not appreciate being called a liar and just so you know where I am coming from, let me give you a little info about my experience.

I have been keeping and breeding seahorses since 1999.
I have kept and bred 7th gen H erectus,4th gen H zosterae,2nd gen H barbouri plus H reidi, H tuberculatus. I share my experience so you will know I am not just making some wild claim, as you seem to think.

I have seen and heard of too many seahorses that have suffered and died because of high temps. High temps in an enclosed system has been proven over and over that begins with stress and stress leads to disease because the immune system is weakened.

Comparing the ocean to a small enclosed system is a rediculous arguement for obvious reasons.
I am also an experienced scuba diver and have observed seahorses in the wild.
They have the option of going deeper to escape the heat but in an enclosed system they have no options so we must provide the protection they need.

I strongly disagree with your statement that one doesn't need to be concerned with high temps in an enclosed system because that is what is not accurate and imo very harmful advice to give anyone.

I am only concerned that members have success with their charges and when a problem jumps out at me that they can change for the benefit of their stock, I will speak up and try to help from my experience.

I will not post anymore in this thread but I hope people will do their research and realize that high temps will have serious negative affects on their seahorses.

Seahorses can move from location to location to escape heat to a certain degree, but not to the extent you are thinking. I have seen a wild erectus population in 84 degree water at 15 feet in macroalgae. If they would have left this area for deeper water they would have been traveling over sand flats. They would need to travel hundreds if not thousands of yards to reach just a couple degrees of temperature "relief". In order to do this they would have been subject to heavy predation. Some seahorse species do live naturally at temps over 80 degrees and up to about 90 degrees.

[mollymonticello]

No one's experience is being discredited. The point is that it's not wise for a new seahorse keeper to attempt to keep them at higher than "normal" aquarium temperatures. If someone has to ask "What temperature should I keep my new seahorse at?" it's a good indication that they should not attempt to keep the temp above 74*F IMVHO. If you hang out on the seahorse emergency forums enough, you'll begin to notice a cause and effect relationship between high temps and Vibrio infections.

[AC11337]

He looks sweet, lower the temp some, 76 ought to do it. Taking the biowheels off that filter might lower your trates. Also try and break the feeding up into multiple ones through out the day.

Eventually you might want to get him a bigger tank and a friend. A 37 tall or some similar sized hex tank would be nice. Interactions between a pair of horses is fascinating to watch.

I must say I'm surprised in the way all of the "seahorse experts" are behaving.

Anyway best of luck and congrats FutureBoy!