brine and/or rotifers anyone? I need food! (I think)

[Steve Richardson]

I've been a bit aggressive lately about trying to feed my tank... mostly because 1) its fairly heavily skimmed, and 2) I have some trouble keeping featherdusters (Sabellastarte..) alive for more than 6 months, and I believe some spirobranchus I have are struggling as well. (starving?, not sure)

So, over the past few months, I've been doing the 'cryopaste' thing, as well as those fairly scary 'golden pearls'. (Reef M&M's)

Anyway...my point....

I've recently started hatching brine shrimp (the San Fran Bay strain, supposed to be smaller than Salt Lake variety...they are indeed dinky.) Am I wasting my time here, are these a good source of nutrition or right size? Been feeding them within hours of hatching on the assumption that any eggsack that is there is a plus, and that they are still small enough (100 microns?...guessing) that some animals and filter feeders can take advantage. I put quite a bit of them in the tank, and the flood of madly swimming specs seems to clear after about 10 minutes.... I cant see where they are going. (Porcelin crab is having an absolute ball however )

Would also like to try rotifers, but not sure where to get a culture from. Any tips or thought on the entire issue?

Thanks a bunch.

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve Richardson (edited 02-09-2000).]

[tritontr21]

hmm, good question steve. i would like to know the answer to this myself, what do you think about the paste you are using is it hype or did you see any good from it, i have been using the DT'S phyto for about a month and the corals ans clams do know when it's in the tank but i have know idea if they get any nutrients from it at all.

anyway sorry to to ask a question from a question but i would like to see some replies to this topic.

BTW how do you hatch your brine and how and when do you collect them after they hatch?

thanks'
triton

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http://www.killerreefer.homestead.com/main.html

[JohnL]

Steve, here is an article by Rob Toonen.

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Peace - John

[newkie]

JohnL, wow that's a lot of information on raising rotifers but did it answer the question?

I would also like to know exactly what benefit, if any, raising baby brine does for a reef.

[horge]

Presumably, Steve, you feed at night, when most corals hunt. I've found that my collected corals had to be 'trained' to accept Artemia, and I'm talking about aherms and large-polyped herms. I started off with live shrimp, quickly shelled (hehe) and mashed, and get the flavor in the tank to induce tentacle extension. Over time, I reintroduced and increased the Artemia in relation to the shrimp. Now, some of them go bananas over the Artemia without benefit of shrimp-mash stimulus. Just my isolated experience

[DougL]

Steve;
I have links to both FAF and Inland Aquatics on my plankton page.
Its http://sites.netscape.net/douglxyzzy/phytoplankton.html

I am gearing up for rotifers myself. It seems to be the best choice because of size, nutritional profile and ease of culture.
If well fed, they are high in HUFA .

Baby Brine are high in fat and missing key fatty acids. There is a brine shrimp FAQ in the RC FAQ's However, they are very good for larval culture.

Just my two cents.

DougL



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Email: doug.lockwood@ameritech.com
Home email: douglxyzzy@netscape.net

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[tritontr21]

steve i ran across this, didnt read it yet but could be some help.http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6279/RaiseGrowRotifersArtemia.html

[Steve Richardson]

Thank you for the thoughts everyone, appreciate them.

John - That looks like a good article... I skimmed it and will give it a good read tonight.

Horge - I hadnt been feeding at night, but I think I will try this... you have a good point.

tritontr21 - There is some basic info here about growing, hatching, collecting, enriching, etc... Its really very easy. A 2L soda bottle, some wastewater from your tank, an air pump, light, and 1g of cysts... 24hours later... you have about 250,000 brineshrimp nauplii.
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/tech.htm

Doug - yup. Understand brine are generally used for fry, etc - and frequently enriched for that purpose. I might let some of them get big - and then fatten them up with all sorts of stuff for my fish.

I wonder if I can grow rotifers and brine at the same time. Perhaps make a 'reef stew'.

-Steve

[smpolyp]

From what I take of it using roties,brine,ect.. are just a way to deliver the food in different sizes for different polyp sizes.I know that the Nannochlorapsis is the best size for corals out of the different planktons that are ussually used.I think that rotifers are prob the best to use for corals like SPS.Just making sure you feed the roties before feeding the coral.Rotifers are a little work when you have to use the green water,but with the new cryopastes it is much easier.
Steve Richardson after reading the post you posted on my brine quest. I think if you are doing this rotifers should be about the same amount of work or less when using the cryo.

[badgers]

This may sound stupid but after reading the article Rob Toonen I want to know why you can't uses the cryopaste algae rather then the live algae? The article seemed to indicate that the rotifers were more hardy then the algae cultures.
thank you for your time and have a good day

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I'm so skeptical, I can hardly believe it!
The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

[DougL]

teve;

I think mixing brine and rotifers would yield
good brine and no rotifers. Brine shrimp are very non-specific feeders and I believe that rotifers fall into their size range. At
least the adult size range.

The adult Brine are more nutritionally complete. Especially if well fed. I would be interested in your results.

HTH;

DougL

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Email: doug.lockwood@ameritech.com
Home email: douglxyzzy@netscape.net

Homepage sites.netscape.net/douglxyzzy/homepage

[Mr Hanky-Tanky]

Hi Doug
i was a bit surprised by your last statement so i went to check the nutritional stats of artemia vs rotifers in the Plankton Culture Manual from FAF.
Here are the numbers i found:

Rotifers (fed with nannochl.)
75% protein, 22% lipid

Rotifers (fed with yeast)
71% protein, 17% lipid

Adult artemia
62.8% protein, 7% lipid (this number for pre-adult stage)
Food type not specified

(all numbers before enrichment with Selco)

Also, the reported digestability of rotifer protein is 89-94% vs 83%-89% for artemia (study conducted with carps and rainbow trouts)

Conclusion?: Not very conclusive
Whereas rotifers contain more proteins, i think fishes are happier muching on adult artemia. More meat per bite.

But, i think, Steve you primarily want to feed your filter feeders eg feather dusters, so i think your better off with the rotifers.

(But brine shrimp are cooler to look at!)

[DougL]

Mr Hanky-Tanky;

I wasn't very clear about my statements.
This is from the Brine Shrimp FAQ http://www.rtop.com/features/bs-faq.shtml

quote:

---

Newly hatched artemia are high in fats, about 23% of dry weight. By mid juvenile stage, the fat levels have decreased to about 16
%, and by the time they are pre-adults the fat levels have decreased to about 7%. But, at the same time, the protein content has
risen to replace the fat, from about 45% in a newly hatched artemia to about 63% in an adult. Based on this, you should determine
what is best for your tank, young fish larvae require a high fat intake for growth and health, while older juveniles and adults need
protein for health and reproduction. Also, nauplii are known to be deficient in several essential amino acids, while the adult artemia
are rich in all essential amino acids. Adult artemia therefore supply more biomass than nauplii and are more nutritionally complete.

---

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say that Adult Brine was more nutritionally complete than newly hatched. Thanks for the rotifer data.

DougL



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