Keeping fish healthy

Paul B · 12/23/2006, 12:14 PM

I believe the most important thing there is about keeping fish healthy is their diet. Second only to water conditions. I very rarely see people or for that matter stores, feed fish a healthy diet. Most people just feed either mysis, pellets, krill or some other commercially prepared foods. Those foods are of course fine but fish in the sea never see mysis, pellets flakes etc. We have at our disposal for practically free better foods that are more available and healthier for the fish. I myself also feed prepared frozen food because it is easy but it is not all I feed. If you want to get fish into breeding condition, which they rarely are in our tanks, you must feed them other things. IMO the best food for fish is shellfish and whole fish. The reason I think this is first of all they love it but besides that, when we feed shellfish like clams, mussels and oysters we feed the internal organs of these animals to our fish which is where most of the nutrition is. There is very little usable nutrition in a fish fillet although it is better than flakes but fillets is only fish muscle. In the sea fish eat the entire fish including bones, liver guts, everything, and they depend on this. Fish get almost all of their calcium from eating fish bones, they get most of their vitamin A from fish livers.
If you do much diving you woulds instantly see that fish in the sea almost always look better than fish in a tank. Stress has a lot to do with it as our fish are always stressed but I think diet also plays a role. In my own tank fish almost never die of anything except old age or an accident. I am working on the accidents but I think I have the food thing down pat. I also would never just put food in my tank, it is always fed with a rubber bulb with an acrylic tube on it. All of the food is eaten and I can target different fish different foods.
Shellfish are the easiest, cheapest thing to feed. Just buy a couple of clams, oysters etc, you can even buy them shelled. Freeze them and with a sharp knife, I use an Exacto knife, slice small portions off. By doing this, we are giving the fish the entire clam with all the internal organs. You can feed shellfish fresh but they are messy and hard to cut. They also do not last more than a couple of days.
If you don't see your fish exhibiting breeding behavior, they may not be as healthy as you think. Most fish (except schooling fish) should be cleaning a nesting spot, chasing other fish away or just looking great. Of course if you have a pair, most fish will breed. You may not be able to raise the fry but they should spawn or at least attempt to. Healthy fish are always spawning, they rarely if ever get sick and they live many years.
Have a great holiday.
Paul
Pregnant pipefish

ten year old clown always cleaning his nest even though there has not been another clownfish in there in years.

GregEMT · 12/23/2006, 12:30 PM

I agree, a healthy diet with a wide verity of foods in important. I would also add that giving fish human foods is an odd idea. I've never seen a tang diving in HI eating romaine lettuce. Food made for us is not meant for them. Especially when no one knows if they can even processes it.

Paul B · 12/23/2006, 12:43 PM

I have to admit that I use some bananna for fish food but this is not a large part of their diet and is an experiment for the moorish Idol. In addition I collect sponge and amphipods locally in New York. I know not everyone can do that but shellfish should be available to most people.
Greg you are correct that romaine lettuce should not be fed to anything. I feed nori if I feel the need to give greens.
Another mistake people do is feed Beef Heart. Fish are cold blooded and can not utilize warm blooded animal fat. You need high internal temperature to melt the fat. You see the fat coming out of the fish just as it went in. Fish have no fat, only oil.
Paul

DMK · 12/23/2006, 01:09 PM

paul b what do u think is best to feed tangs?...they're the 1 fish i can't seem to keep healthy for more than a year. they always end up w/ LLD, eventually going MIA... i feed fullspectrum pellets, flakes, mysis, cycop eeze. nori offered for tangs. alittle algae in tank to be picked on, whatever cleanup crew leaves behind.i've never fed clams, oysters, etc. i will try it. do u chop up all together in chopper and then freeze?
- as a matter in fact i'm gonna go get a few clams, muscles and oysters right now.

Paul B · 12/23/2006, 01:17 PM

DMK I don't chop it all together, I freeze it whole and slice off pieces after it's frozen or you end up with a slimy mess with a lot of juice.
If you feed full spectrum pellets, a few times a week soak it in Selcon which has some vitamin A in it. I also like to soak either flakes or pellets in some straight vitamin A and feed to fish. As I said fish eat whole fish which include the livers. The liver is almost all vitamin A. IMO this vitamin is missing in almost all the food we give our fish. I do it for my moorish Idol once a week.
If you watch tangs on a reef they eat algae but there is so little algae there that they scrape the rock surface and I am sure grab whatever else is there. Tangs like almost all other fish also eat baby fish which are very plentiful on a reef.
Tangs have other problems because they are all schooling fish and are never seen alone, I think that is the biggest problem with these fish and may be a contributing factor in HLLE disease.
I have cured it with vitamin A and it is the reason I feed it.
Good luck.
Paul

DMK · 12/23/2006, 01:42 PM

what source do u use for straight vit A?
when u just slice little pieces off, the fish don't have a problem eating pieces rather than tiny chopped pieces, which would be smaller? i was thinking of chopping very small all together and filing ice cube trays w/ the mix and freezing. then slice a piece from these cubes...i don't know though... i never tried this...i noticed when i used to feed an anenome silver sides, i would slice pieces off it and offer to fish. the clowns, royal gramma, blenny and tang would not eat it. they would sometimes snatch it up, chew alittle and spit out. the only 1 that really ate it all was a bangai cardinal.

Paul B · 12/23/2006, 06:43 PM

I use Cod Liver Oil for vitamin A. After you freeze the shellfish you can shave off paper thin pieces which are easy to swallow.
I can almost guarantee most of your fish will eat small pieces of clam.
They like oyster even better.
So do I.
Paul

12/23/2006, 12:14 PM	#1
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	Keeping fish healthy I believe the most important thing there is about keeping fish healthy is their diet. Second only to water conditions. I very rarely see people or for that matter stores, feed fish a healthy diet. Most people just feed either mysis, pellets, krill or some other commercially prepared foods. Those foods are of course fine but fish in the sea never see mysis, pellets flakes etc. We have at our disposal for practically free better foods that are more available and healthier for the fish. I myself also feed prepared frozen food because it is easy but it is not all I feed. If you want to get fish into breeding condition, which they rarely are in our tanks, you must feed them other things. IMO the best food for fish is shellfish and whole fish. The reason I think this is first of all they love it but besides that, when we feed shellfish like clams, mussels and oysters we feed the internal organs of these animals to our fish which is where most of the nutrition is. There is very little usable nutrition in a fish fillet although it is better than flakes but fillets is only fish muscle. In the sea fish eat the entire fish including bones, liver guts, everything, and they depend on this. Fish get almost all of their calcium from eating fish bones, they get most of their vitamin A from fish livers. If you do much diving you woulds instantly see that fish in the sea almost always look better than fish in a tank. Stress has a lot to do with it as our fish are always stressed but I think diet also plays a role. In my own tank fish almost never die of anything except old age or an accident. I am working on the accidents but I think I have the food thing down pat. I also would never just put food in my tank, it is always fed with a rubber bulb with an acrylic tube on it. All of the food is eaten and I can target different fish different foods. Shellfish are the easiest, cheapest thing to feed. Just buy a couple of clams, oysters etc, you can even buy them shelled. Freeze them and with a sharp knife, I use an Exacto knife, slice small portions off. By doing this, we are giving the fish the entire clam with all the internal organs. You can feed shellfish fresh but they are messy and hard to cut. They also do not last more than a couple of days. If you don't see your fish exhibiting breeding behavior, they may not be as healthy as you think. Most fish (except schooling fish) should be cleaning a nesting spot, chasing other fish away or just looking great. Of course if you have a pair, most fish will breed. You may not be able to raise the fry but they should spawn or at least attempt to. Healthy fish are always spawning, they rarely if ever get sick and they live many years. Have a great holiday. Paul Pregnant pipefish ten year old clown always cleaning his nest even though there has not been another clownfish in there in years.

12/23/2006, 12:43 PM	#3
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	I have to admit that I use some bananna for fish food but this is not a large part of their diet and is an experiment for the moorish Idol. In addition I collect sponge and amphipods locally in New York. I know not everyone can do that but shellfish should be available to most people. Greg you are correct that romaine lettuce should not be fed to anything. I feed nori if I feel the need to give greens. Another mistake people do is feed Beef Heart. Fish are cold blooded and can not utilize warm blooded animal fat. You need high internal temperature to melt the fat. You see the fat coming out of the fish just as it went in. Fish have no fat, only oil. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

12/23/2006, 01:17 PM	#5
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	DMK I don't chop it all together, I freeze it whole and slice off pieces after it's frozen or you end up with a slimy mess with a lot of juice. If you feed full spectrum pellets, a few times a week soak it in Selcon which has some vitamin A in it. I also like to soak either flakes or pellets in some straight vitamin A and feed to fish. As I said fish eat whole fish which include the livers. The liver is almost all vitamin A. IMO this vitamin is missing in almost all the food we give our fish. I do it for my moorish Idol once a week. If you watch tangs on a reef they eat algae but there is so little algae there that they scrape the rock surface and I am sure grab whatever else is there. Tangs like almost all other fish also eat baby fish which are very plentiful on a reef. Tangs have other problems because they are all schooling fish and are never seen alone, I think that is the biggest problem with these fish and may be a contributing factor in HLLE disease. I have cured it with vitamin A and it is the reason I feed it. Good luck. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

12/23/2006, 06:43 PM	#7
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	I use Cod Liver Oil for vitamin A. After you freeze the shellfish you can shave off paper thin pieces which are easy to swallow. I can almost guarantee most of your fish will eat small pieces of clam. They like oyster even better. So do I. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

12/23/2006, 12:30 PM	#2
GregEMT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 134	I agree, a healthy diet with a wide verity of foods in important. I would also add that giving fish human foods is an odd idea. I've never seen a tang diving in HI eating romaine lettuce. Food made for us is not meant for them. Especially when no one knows if they can even processes it.

12/23/2006, 01:09 PM	#4
DMK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: central NJ Posts: 2,494	paul b what do u think is best to feed tangs?...they're the 1 fish i can't seem to keep healthy for more than a year. they always end up w/ LLD, eventually going MIA... i feed fullspectrum pellets, flakes, mysis, cycop eeze. nori offered for tangs. alittle algae in tank to be picked on, whatever cleanup crew leaves behind.i've never fed clams, oysters, etc. i will try it. do u chop up all together in chopper and then freeze? - as a matter in fact i'm gonna go get a few clams, muscles and oysters right now.

12/23/2006, 01:42 PM	#6
DMK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: central NJ Posts: 2,494	what source do u use for straight vit A? when u just slice little pieces off, the fish don't have a problem eating pieces rather than tiny chopped pieces, which would be smaller? i was thinking of chopping very small all together and filing ice cube trays w/ the mix and freezing. then slice a piece from these cubes...i don't know though... i never tried this...i noticed when i used to feed an anenome silver sides, i would slice pieces off it and offer to fish. the clowns, royal gramma, blenny and tang would not eat it. they would sometimes snatch it up, chew alittle and spit out. the only 1 that really ate it all was a bangai cardinal.