cheato is disintegrating

kelrn98 · 12/28/2006, 12:51 AM

I have cheato in my sump with fluorescent lighting opposite my tank. I recently noticed it is disintegrating. It just falls apart when I touch it. Also, it seems to have shrunk. Could this be because I top off FW into the sump? Other than that I cannot think of any other reason.

drillsar · 12/28/2006, 04:25 AM

Try taking some of it apart..

mattc183 · 12/28/2006, 09:47 AM

Mine did that when I first put it in, caused a cycle and then my conch found it and went to town eating the algae. Now, it's been colonized with enough microfauna to keep it clean. Maybe, there isn't enough flow in your sump?

papagimp · 12/28/2006, 09:51 AM

I have minimal flow in my sump, and top off about a gallon and a half of FW on top of the cheato. Mine does not fall apart.

Exactly what kind of lighting do you have over it and how intense is it? All I can think is possibly not receiving enough light. Cheato doesn't go assexual like caulapra does, doesn't mean it can't happen, but usually not. Any dying or melting chunks you'll want to remove as you see them, rotting plant matter will definatly cause a big spike in Phosphates which in turn will fuel algae growth. Especially if the cheato isn't exporting nurtients like it should.

N8ster · 12/28/2006, 11:33 AM

I am having the same problem. It doubled in size fairly quickly, and then just started disintegrating. Everything else in the tank is doing great. I am running a 5500 kelvin bulb like the one on Melev's site.

I posted a similar question a while back, and the response I got was that it sometimes just does that.

Shooter7 · 12/28/2006, 11:52 AM

Mine has been doing the same thing for a few months now, coinciding with the maintained zero nitrates/zero phosphates I'm testing in it at the moment. Also with the addition of phosphate remover to the system. I trimmed it way back in an effort to make less to maintain and hoping it might just grow slowly with the lower nutrients in the system, but it has continued to deteriorate. I have had it suggested to me to add iron which would help the chaeto growth, however, this could also help nuisance algae in your display grow as well. I have currently taken my refugium offline as the chaeto breaking down is simply releasing all the nutrients it had taken up before back into the system. Still debating on how to proceed.

kelrn98 · 12/29/2006, 01:21 AM

As far as taking some of it apart....if I touch it, it falls apart.

I had dosed iron once a week.

I too am using bulb suggested by Melev.

I see that others are having the same problems. Should I just throw it out and buy some more, start over or what?

rppvt · 12/29/2006, 01:36 AM

Are you making sure it gets some "down" time (without light)?

kelrn98 · 12/29/2006, 10:17 AM

Yes, light cycle is opposite of the tank. runs from 9pm to 7am.

Spuds725 · 12/29/2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kelrn98
Could this be because I top off FW into the sump? Other than that I cannot think of any other reason.

IMO yes it is possible-- its pretty hard to kill chaeto other then messing with localized chemistry--- I read a similar problem from someone dripping kalk to their fuge...

If the chaeto is far gone then I'd ditch it and star over

papagimp · 12/29/2006, 12:53 PM

Iron is primarily used to help plants produce chlorophyll, you'llknow when it's getting iron deficiencies cause it'll turn yellowish or clearish. If you don't have any nitrate or phosphate in the water that can definatly cause it to die off some, they need there nutrients too. When I kept a planted freshwater tank, I would purposly have to dose phosphates and nitrates to keep the plants healthy. If you are doing too good of a job keeping nitrates down and phosphates down, then that may the problem.

You say you have a 5500k bulb, which size did you pick up? it could still be not getting enough light if you stuck a small bulb over it. I run the 26w sylvania bulb, packaging says it rated to replace a 100w standard bulb, and my cheato grows pretty steadily and never seen it die off at all.

Shooter7 · 12/29/2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by papagimp
Iron is primarily used to help plants produce chlorophyll, you'llknow when it's getting iron deficiencies cause it'll turn yellowish or clearish. If you don't have any nitrate or phosphate in the water that can definatly cause it to die off some, they need there nutrients too. When I kept a planted freshwater tank, I would purposly have to dose phosphates and nitrates to keep the plants healthy. If you are doing too good of a job keeping nitrates down and phosphates down, then that may the problem.

Yeah, this is what I was saying before. I used to grow mine just fine in the early months of my tank, but now with zero nitrates, light bioload and feeding, along with a phosphate remover running, it has gone steadily downhill. I have gone ahead and taken my refugium offline from my system and am running it separately while I watch the main display. I don't think it was doing much for my pod population, and if there aren't any nitrate increases or other negative impacts as a result of not having it, I'll likely shut it down completely and just put the rock that's in there in my sump.

supertech3 · 12/29/2006, 02:11 PM

maybe like shooter7 stated you are low on nitrates to feed the algae, maybe you are lower in nitrates than measuring with test, I have my lights on less and mine is doing great, but my nitrates are also much higher

N8ster · 01/28/2007, 10:36 PM

Any updates on this?

I have started dosing iron, and the cheato seemed to green up a bit, but still appears to be shrinking. Did anyone else figure out a solution?

Aquarist007 · 12/29/2007, 10:10 AM

I'm wondering if you just through a bit of flake food in the fuge, if that will solve the problem of low phosphates and nitrates.

Sk8r · 12/29/2007, 10:31 AM

UP the flow---it likes to tumble---and light it 24/7. I use a 13w HO light.

Aquarist007 · 12/29/2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
UP the flow---it likes to tumble---and light it 24/7. I use a 13w HO light.

First of all I have to thank you Sk8r--for the tip of turning the lights off in the fuge to get rid of the cyano--I actully had to leave them off for two days.
With the lights on 15 hrs instead of 24/7 it is starting to come back

I have always get the flow very low to a trickle through the fuge--if I increase the flow through it it will probably get rid of the cyano--but will it effect the size of the copopod colony etc in it that I am trying to feed my tank with?
The other problem could be that the cheato has filled the 30 gal sump to the point where it couldn't tumble if it wanted to---I rotate it by hand once a week.

sjm817 · 12/29/2007, 01:02 PM

Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. My 30G fuge was doing great for almost 1 year. I regularly removed large amounts and tossed it. Then, the chaeto started withering away, cyano and HA started growing. The chaeto started falling apart and became very limp. My fuge light was ~ 1 year old and I have changed it. I tossed what was left of my chaeto and had to BUY some from the LFS to get a new start (that almost killed me with the amount I have thrown away). I'm not sure why it died off maybe I wasn't pruning it back enough, maybe the old bulb, maybe something else. I dont know. I just put the new chaeto in and will see how it goes.

leoslizards · 01/02/2008, 10:08 AM

What's Melev's website? I would like to take a look.

Drag Racer · 01/02/2008, 01:44 PM

i recently put some cheato in my sump about a month back and using the CP light from HD and seeing some groth, I turn it about once to twice a week. The Hair algea problem has stopped spreading and is startling to reside but now im getting a light colored algea all over the sand? The lights I know i need to change there almost a year old this month. Could this be normal algea growth of sighs of another problem? The tank is about 1.5 years up and running. I top off and make my own salt water with a Filter Guys unit.

NCguy · 01/02/2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leoslizards
What's Melev's website? I would like to take a look.

http://www.melevsreef.com/index.html

Aquarist007 · 01/02/2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drag Racer
i recently put some cheato in my sump about a month back and using the CP light from HD and seeing some groth, I turn it about once to twice a week. The Hair algea problem has stopped spreading and is startling to reside but now im getting a light colored algea all over the sand? The lights I know i need to change there almost a year old this month. Could this be normal algea growth of sighs of another problem? The tank is about 1.5 years up and running. I top off and make my own salt water with a Filter Guys unit.

it indicates there is still a source of phosphates and nitrates in your water column

make sure you have circulation directed across the substrate and in corners ect.
the circulation in your tank is good at 20-40 times your tank volume

on the other hand make sure the circulation through the sump matches the gph of your protein skimmmer

feed less and rinse all frozen foods with r/o water

consider running phosban in a phosban reactor

once a week lightly baste the rock and substrate with a turkey baster--get the extra dissolved organics back into the water column where they can be filtered off

Aadler · 01/02/2008, 03:42 PM

Just for an insight into cheato... mine did the same thing after living in my fuge for close to two years. I took it out and threw it in a tank of super high salinity water with no pump and a 16" NO lightstrip (AGA) on all the time or off all the time.. took about a week and it is dark green again. Im thinking my water is simply to 'pure' to support its growth. I cannot fathom any other answer, i used the melev bulb, a 32w PC and even threw a 70w MH 10k over it for a few days at different times while have the 'falling apart' issue. Im not complaining though, just one less thing to do. After awhile I may throw it back in the fuge just to give pods more room to breed, but other than that, there is not always an appreciable benefit from all the standard 'solutions' given in this hobby. jmo.

jamiep · 01/02/2008, 04:43 PM

My chaeto did that, lost it all I though, Then it started growing out from some live rock a small bit had got caught in and I growing quite fast! I think it was maybe problems with the lighting and getting used to it!

12/28/2006, 12:51 AM	#1
kelrn98 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 856	cheato is disintegrating I have cheato in my sump with fluorescent lighting opposite my tank. I recently noticed it is disintegrating. It just falls apart when I touch it. Also, it seems to have shrunk. Could this be because I top off FW into the sump? Other than that I cannot think of any other reason. __________________ ~Kelly~ Current Tank Info: 96x24x30 -300g mixed reef: 75g sump, 35g fuge, 2x MP60, 4x Radion Pros, reef octopus X5000 skimmer, way too much LR and a few fish

12/28/2006, 09:47 AM	#3
mattc183 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: enid Posts: 100	Mine did that when I first put it in, caused a cycle and then my conch found it and went to town eating the algae. Now, it's been colonized with enough microfauna to keep it clean. Maybe, there isn't enough flow in your sump? __________________ An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes, which can be made, in a very narrow field. - Niels Bohr Current Tank Info: 55+

12/28/2006, 09:51 AM	#4
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	I have minimal flow in my sump, and top off about a gallon and a half of FW on top of the cheato. Mine does not fall apart. Exactly what kind of lighting do you have over it and how intense is it? All I can think is possibly not receiving enough light. Cheato doesn't go assexual like caulapra does, doesn't mean it can't happen, but usually not. Any dying or melting chunks you'll want to remove as you see them, rotting plant matter will definatly cause a big spike in Phosphates which in turn will fuel algae growth. Especially if the cheato isn't exporting nurtients like it should. __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

12/28/2006, 11:52 AM	#6
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	Mine has been doing the same thing for a few months now, coinciding with the maintained zero nitrates/zero phosphates I'm testing in it at the moment. Also with the addition of phosphate remover to the system. I trimmed it way back in an effort to make less to maintain and hoping it might just grow slowly with the lower nutrients in the system, but it has continued to deteriorate. I have had it suggested to me to add iron which would help the chaeto growth, however, this could also help nuisance algae in your display grow as well. I have currently taken my refugium offline as the chaeto breaking down is simply releasing all the nutrients it had taken up before back into the system. Still debating on how to proceed. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

12/29/2006, 01:21 AM	#7
kelrn98 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 856	As far as taking some of it apart....if I touch it, it falls apart. I had dosed iron once a week. I too am using bulb suggested by Melev. I see that others are having the same problems. Should I just throw it out and buy some more, start over or what? __________________ ~Kelly~ Current Tank Info: 96x24x30 -300g mixed reef: 75g sump, 35g fuge, 2x MP60, 4x Radion Pros, reef octopus X5000 skimmer, way too much LR and a few fish

12/28/2006, 04:25 AM	#2
drillsar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 2,838	Try taking some of it apart..

12/28/2006, 11:33 AM	#5
N8ster Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 306	I am having the same problem. It doubled in size fairly quickly, and then just started disintegrating. Everything else in the tank is doing great. I am running a 5500 kelvin bulb like the one on Melev's site. I posted a similar question a while back, and the response I got was that it sometimes just does that.

12/29/2006, 01:36 AM	#8
rppvt rppvt Join Date: May 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 484	Are you making sure it gets some "down" time (without light)?

12/29/2006, 10:17 AM	#9
kelrn98 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 856	Yes, light cycle is opposite of the tank. runs from 9pm to 7am. __________________ ~Kelly~ Current Tank Info: 96x24x30 -300g mixed reef: 75g sump, 35g fuge, 2x MP60, 4x Radion Pros, reef octopus X5000 skimmer, way too much LR and a few fish

12/29/2006, 12:53 PM	#11
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	Iron is primarily used to help plants produce chlorophyll, you'llknow when it's getting iron deficiencies cause it'll turn yellowish or clearish. If you don't have any nitrate or phosphate in the water that can definatly cause it to die off some, they need there nutrients too. When I kept a planted freshwater tank, I would purposly have to dose phosphates and nitrates to keep the plants healthy. If you are doing too good of a job keeping nitrates down and phosphates down, then that may the problem. You say you have a 5500k bulb, which size did you pick up? it could still be not getting enough light if you stuck a small bulb over it. I run the 26w sylvania bulb, packaging says it rated to replace a 100w standard bulb, and my cheato grows pretty steadily and never seen it die off at all. __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

12/29/2006, 02:11 PM	#13
supertech3 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: El Paso Posts: 1,206	maybe like shooter7 stated you are low on nitrates to feed the algae, maybe you are lower in nitrates than measuring with test, I have my lights on less and mine is doing great, but my nitrates are also much higher

01/28/2007, 10:36 PM	#14
N8ster Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 306	Any updates on this? I have started dosing iron, and the cheato seemed to green up a bit, but still appears to be shrinking. Did anyone else figure out a solution?

12/29/2007, 10:10 AM	#15
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	I'm wondering if you just through a bit of flake food in the fuge, if that will solve the problem of low phosphates and nitrates. __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

12/29/2007, 10:31 AM	#16
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	UP the flow---it likes to tumble---and light it 24/7. I use a 13w HO light. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

12/29/2007, 01:02 PM	#18
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue. My 30G fuge was doing great for almost 1 year. I regularly removed large amounts and tossed it. Then, the chaeto started withering away, cyano and HA started growing. The chaeto started falling apart and became very limp. My fuge light was ~ 1 year old and I have changed it. I tossed what was left of my chaeto and had to BUY some from the LFS to get a new start (that almost killed me with the amount I have thrown away). I'm not sure why it died off maybe I wasn't pruning it back enough, maybe the old bulb, maybe something else. I dont know. I just put the new chaeto in and will see how it goes. __________________ - Scott

01/02/2008, 10:08 AM	#19
leoslizards Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 394	What's Melev's website? I would like to take a look.

01/02/2008, 01:44 PM	#20
Drag Racer Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Bend, Wi Posts: 1,280	i recently put some cheato in my sump about a month back and using the CP light from HD and seeing some groth, I turn it about once to twice a week. The Hair algea problem has stopped spreading and is startling to reside but now im getting a light colored algea all over the sand? The lights I know i need to change there almost a year old this month. Could this be normal algea growth of sighs of another problem? The tank is about 1.5 years up and running. I top off and make my own salt water with a Filter Guys unit. __________________ Why did I start this addictive hobby???????? Its not like I didn't have anything better to do. Link to my DIY HOB Fuge for 4 gallon tank http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1971283 Current Tank Info: 75gal fresh 4 Gallon Pico

01/02/2008, 03:42 PM	#23
Aadler Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,336	Just for an insight into cheato... mine did the same thing after living in my fuge for close to two years. I took it out and threw it in a tank of super high salinity water with no pump and a 16" NO lightstrip (AGA) on all the time or off all the time.. took about a week and it is dark green again. Im thinking my water is simply to 'pure' to support its growth. I cannot fathom any other answer, i used the melev bulb, a 32w PC and even threw a 70w MH 10k over it for a few days at different times while have the 'falling apart' issue. Im not complaining though, just one less thing to do. After awhile I may throw it back in the fuge just to give pods more room to breed, but other than that, there is not always an appreciable benefit from all the standard 'solutions' given in this hobby. jmo. __________________ MiniBow 7 - WooHoo

01/02/2008, 04:43 PM	#24
jamiep Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 458	My chaeto did that, lost it all I though, Then it started growing out from some live rock a small bit had got caught in and I growing quite fast! I think it was maybe problems with the lighting and getting used to it!