How fast can you go through the "cycle"

oli5 · 01/19/2007, 09:38 PM

I'm setting up a 77g Saltwater FOWLR tank. I've heard stories that it takes 6 weeks, others where it takes 2 weeks. But apparently the fact that if you take live rock out of the water to transport it to your tank, many of the algae die, thus the longer period of time. But are there things that can speed up the cycle so that you can put your fish in earlier? How long does it ACTUALLY take? Thanks

bertoni · 01/19/2007, 09:44 PM

The time it takes is variable, and there's nothing to add that will help, as far as I can tell. Some water changes might help if the ammonia gets high.

Myka · 01/19/2007, 09:58 PM

It just takes time. Those who told you 2 weeks were probably using established LR and LS. Locally bought fully cured LR and LS is the fastest way to go. My 33g has been cycling since Dec 10, and it's not fully cycled as of last Saturday when I tested last. I'll be testing tomorrow again, and I am expecting it to be cycled now. The rock I used was uncured though...so it takes longer than locally bought cured rock. So to answer your question...I have found 5-6 weeks to be pretty normal.

scrmbld33 · 01/19/2007, 10:16 PM

i got tonga rock which took about 4 weeks to cure, i also got some indonesia rock which barely had a trace of amonia or anything after about a week or so (i still waited 4 weeks to add it waiting for the cycle) really it depends on the quality of live rock and dieoff, theres no faster way really to get through it
patience and reefkeeping go hand in hand

RedEyeElf · 01/19/2007, 10:34 PM

I've added a large load of established (3-4 year) Reef rock to a tank and added 2 chromis 2 days later with no ill effects, they are still chill'n

Not saying Ideal, just a situation that happened, I did not test the water at the time, so I do not know my Amo, nitri, nitra levels

uncured rock is like a pile of dead decaying organisms, with afew survivors, it will crash a system or take atleast 4-6 weeks to properly cure IME so taking 5 weeks to cycle would be a regular curing of some LR

Myka · 01/19/2007, 10:51 PM

Curing of LR and cycling of your tank is two different processes. Usually live rock is cured in a vat of saltwater outside of the aquarium. Curing and cycling can be achieved in one step by just placing uncured rock into the tank, and allowing it all to happen in one go. It will take longer this way.

zma21 · 01/19/2007, 10:52 PM

Mine has been cycling since Jan 6th and i think i'm about halfway done.

ionredline0260 · 01/19/2007, 10:52 PM

MY LFS is gonna be helping me set up my 29 gallon FOWLR in a week or two and told me that if I start with thier water, live sand and 30lbs of live rock and added a damsel 2 days latter and let it sit for a week I would be find ot add 1 fish at a time after that, Asuming I bring water in each time for testing before I bought any thing.

zma21 · 01/19/2007, 10:56 PM

Awesome car. I drive a 2003 Ion Redline cobalt blue pearl

Anyways, sorry for that. It's is best for your tanks health to just be patient and let everything balance out before adding to the bioload.

ionredline0260 · 01/19/2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zma21
Awesome car. I drive a 2003 Ion Redline cobalt blue pearl

Really? thats nice, I frickin hate you...

Just kidding, but It's my dream car, I will probably have to settle for a striped down used coupe and trick it out my self. Maybe a used redline?

Back on-topic,
My LFS reccomends the whole, ad a damsel and let it suffer to prevent further fish loss I don't know if you agree with this oli5 but you could try it, but then again you're tank is probably almost finished cycling.

zma21 · 01/19/2007, 11:36 PM

Do not add a damsel; it is cruel.

ThaNgBOm321 · 01/19/2007, 11:42 PM

ion is your lfs water trustworthy?? fish stores have many things going in and out of there tanks so who knows what you can taint your tank with...

back to the subject on hand.... as stared about there a a few things that vary the time it take to cycle a tank.. the main factor is how much 'dead' stuff there is in the tank.. more dead stuff = more bacteria needed to break it down.. only thing is that with too little dead stuff you wont have enouf bacteria even after you to keep up with a instant 'dead/ wast ' introduction .. like if you cycle with 1 flake and afther a cycle you add a 12'' fish... there is like no way that 1 flake worth of bacteria gonna handle that fish poo.....

on the other hand.. you c an somewhat get pass the adding 'dead stuff' to grow bacteria to break it down by adding pre-established bacteria.... as in lr/ls from a established tank.. ( this is what ion's lfs is talking about using there water to help the cycle ... agin is it trustworthy water ??)

last thing i have to say about this cycling ordeal is somethign i read and not have personal exp. but sound very plausible.. it has to do with dosing sugar or vodka to cause a large bacteria bloom ... the bacteria 'eat' the ethonal (sp?.... or something like that) and grow like mad...maybe ask the good oolll doc?..

hth
YzGyz

bertoni · 01/20/2007, 12:08 AM

The damsel won't do anything except possibly bring along fish diseases. I wouldn't add one unless I wanted to keep one, and the I'd wait until the curing was complete.

oli5 · 01/20/2007, 12:33 AM

what about that cocktail shrimp idea?

bertoni · 01/20/2007, 01:02 AM

The cocktail shrimp idea is not useful for tanks with live rock. The idea of the cocktail shrimp is to add some food to the tank for bacteria when setting up an artificial filter. Live rock comes with bacteria and food. The rotting shrimp can only kill animals in the live rock and add pollution to the system.

oli5 · 01/20/2007, 01:17 AM

ok thanks

Sk8r · 01/20/2007, 01:30 AM

I started with local rock, well-corallined, and had even a bit of bubble coral live through a) a January transport in an open truck b) installation in ice-cold raw salt water, and c) the brief cycle. I had over 20 separate species ranging from asterina starfish to strombus grazer and stomatella snails to bubble coral to [curses!] caulerpa come through fine, within about 2 weeks. I was delighted---but the caulerpa has been a pain.

reefnetworth · 01/20/2007, 02:33 AM

Sk8r, a small FoxFace Lo will devour all your calurpa.
John M

ive had full cycles in as few as four days. (best one in 17 years!) one inch of my used sand, mixed with 60# of LS. 120# of Fiji, and Kaelini LR. running 50X's turnover with 24 hours lighting, protein skimmer running, filter running, and using a PH to remove detritus every 7-8 minutes. (it was a weekend! i was bored!)

John M

oli5 · 01/20/2007, 05:16 PM

That's so fast...Ya I was thinking somewhere along the lines of that too, having some LS mixed with really fine sand, some Tonga LR, and having my filter, protein skimmer, lights, and both powerheads on.

01/19/2007, 09:38 PM	#1
oli5 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 369	How fast can you go through the "cycle" I'm setting up a 77g Saltwater FOWLR tank. I've heard stories that it takes 6 weeks, others where it takes 2 weeks. But apparently the fact that if you take live rock out of the water to transport it to your tank, many of the algae die, thus the longer period of time. But are there things that can speed up the cycle so that you can put your fish in earlier? How long does it ACTUALLY take? Thanks

01/19/2007, 09:44 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The time it takes is variable, and there's nothing to add that will help, as far as I can tell. Some water changes might help if the ammonia gets high. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/19/2007, 09:58 PM	#3
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	It just takes time. Those who told you 2 weeks were probably using established LR and LS. Locally bought fully cured LR and LS is the fastest way to go. My 33g has been cycling since Dec 10, and it's not fully cycled as of last Saturday when I tested last. I'll be testing tomorrow again, and I am expecting it to be cycled now. The rock I used was uncured though...so it takes longer than locally bought cured rock. So to answer your question...I have found 5-6 weeks to be pretty normal. __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

01/19/2007, 10:16 PM	#4
scrmbld33 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: south jersey 08050 Posts: 2,394	i got tonga rock which took about 4 weeks to cure, i also got some indonesia rock which barely had a trace of amonia or anything after about a week or so (i still waited 4 weeks to add it waiting for the cycle) really it depends on the quality of live rock and dieoff, theres no faster way really to get through it patience and reefkeeping go hand in hand __________________ a left over shrimp shedding is not "a sicilian message meaning luca brasi sleeps with the fishes" fish are friends, not food Current Tank Info: 90gal salt, 2 250mh 14k hamiltons 2 110 actinic, 127lbs LR,50lbs tonga 70lbs indonesia 7lbs tonga branch asm g3

01/19/2007, 10:51 PM	#6
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	Curing of LR and cycling of your tank is two different processes. Usually live rock is cured in a vat of saltwater outside of the aquarium. Curing and cycling can be achieved in one step by just placing uncured rock into the tank, and allowing it all to happen in one go. It will take longer this way. __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

01/19/2007, 10:34 PM	#5
RedEyeElf Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 462	I've added a large load of established (3-4 year) Reef rock to a tank and added 2 chromis 2 days later with no ill effects, they are still chill'n Not saying Ideal, just a situation that happened, I did not test the water at the time, so I do not know my Amo, nitri, nitra levels uncured rock is like a pile of dead decaying organisms, with afew survivors, it will crash a system or take atleast 4-6 weeks to properly cure IME so taking 5 weeks to cycle would be a regular curing of some LR

01/19/2007, 10:52 PM	#7
zma21 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 1,453	Mine has been cycling since Jan 6th and i think i'm about halfway done. __________________ SCA 50 Starfire: In Progress Current Tank Info: 20 High -> 40 Cube -> Nanocube 12 DX -> 25 Gallon Rimless -> 10 Gallon AGA Temporary Tank -> JBJ 24 LED -> SCA Starfire 50 Cube

01/19/2007, 10:52 PM	#8
ionredline0260 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Box Around the Corner Posts: 747	MY LFS is gonna be helping me set up my 29 gallon FOWLR in a week or two and told me that if I start with thier water, live sand and 30lbs of live rock and added a damsel 2 days latter and let it sit for a week I would be find ot add 1 fish at a time after that, Asuming I bring water in each time for testing before I bought any thing.

01/19/2007, 10:56 PM	#9
zma21 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 1,453	Awesome car. I drive a 2003 Ion Redline cobalt blue pearl Anyways, sorry for that. It's is best for your tanks health to just be patient and let everything balance out before adding to the bioload.

01/19/2007, 11:36 PM	#11
zma21 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 1,453	Do not add a damsel; it is cruel. __________________ SCA 50 Starfire: In Progress Current Tank Info: 20 High -> 40 Cube -> Nanocube 12 DX -> 25 Gallon Rimless -> 10 Gallon AGA Temporary Tank -> JBJ 24 LED -> SCA Starfire 50 Cube

01/19/2007, 11:42 PM	#12
ThaNgBOm321 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tx, houston Posts: 792	ion is your lfs water trustworthy?? fish stores have many things going in and out of there tanks so who knows what you can taint your tank with... back to the subject on hand.... as stared about there a a few things that vary the time it take to cycle a tank.. the main factor is how much 'dead' stuff there is in the tank.. more dead stuff = more bacteria needed to break it down.. only thing is that with too little dead stuff you wont have enouf bacteria even after you to keep up with a instant 'dead/ wast ' introduction .. like if you cycle with 1 flake and afther a cycle you add a 12'' fish... there is like no way that 1 flake worth of bacteria gonna handle that fish poo..... on the other hand.. you c an somewhat get pass the adding 'dead stuff' to grow bacteria to break it down by adding pre-established bacteria.... as in lr/ls from a established tank.. ( this is what ion's lfs is talking about using there water to help the cycle ... agin is it trustworthy water ??) last thing i have to say about this cycling ordeal is somethign i read and not have personal exp. but sound very plausible.. it has to do with dosing sugar or vodka to cause a large bacteria bloom ... the bacteria 'eat' the ethonal (sp?.... or something like that) and grow like mad...maybe ask the good oolll doc?.. hth YzGyz __________________ YzGyz = Wise Guys ohhh and cows go MOOO!!! 2nd best way is to learn from ones own mistakes but the best way to learn is from others... thx to Randy and so many other for making reefing that much easier

01/20/2007, 12:08 AM	#13
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The damsel won't do anything except possibly bring along fish diseases. I wouldn't add one unless I wanted to keep one, and the I'd wait until the curing was complete. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/20/2007, 12:33 AM	#14
oli5 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 369	what about that cocktail shrimp idea? __________________ I think therefor I am Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 20g FW, 5g QT

01/20/2007, 01:02 AM	#15
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The cocktail shrimp idea is not useful for tanks with live rock. The idea of the cocktail shrimp is to add some food to the tank for bacteria when setting up an artificial filter. Live rock comes with bacteria and food. The rotting shrimp can only kill animals in the live rock and add pollution to the system. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/20/2007, 01:17 AM	#16
oli5 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 369	ok thanks __________________ I think therefor I am Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 20g FW, 5g QT

01/20/2007, 01:30 AM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I started with local rock, well-corallined, and had even a bit of bubble coral live through a) a January transport in an open truck b) installation in ice-cold raw salt water, and c) the brief cycle. I had over 20 separate species ranging from asterina starfish to strombus grazer and stomatella snails to bubble coral to [curses!] caulerpa come through fine, within about 2 weeks. I was delighted---but the caulerpa has been a pain. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/20/2007, 02:33 AM	#18
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,810	Sk8r, a small FoxFace Lo will devour all your calurpa. John M ive had full cycles in as few as four days. (best one in 17 years!) one inch of my used sand, mixed with 60# of LS. 120# of Fiji, and Kaelini LR. running 50X's turnover with 24 hours lighting, protein skimmer running, filter running, and using a PH to remove detritus every 7-8 minutes. (it was a weekend! i was bored!) John M __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

01/20/2007, 05:16 PM	#19
oli5 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 369	That's so fast...Ya I was thinking somewhere along the lines of that too, having some LS mixed with really fine sand, some Tonga LR, and having my filter, protein skimmer, lights, and both powerheads on. __________________ I think therefor I am Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 20g FW, 5g QT