Getting back into the hobby and need some advice!

Azizza · 02/25/2007, 12:34 PM

Due to numerous reasons including the plans of moving, a major tank Crash, and a Wedding, I have been out of the hobby for about 2 years. The only fish I have had is a single clownfish in a 16 Gallon Bowfront. No Coral, and just a cleaner shrimp for company.

The poor guy has been quite lonely.

Anyway, My wife and I have moved into a new house and i have the chance to do things right from the beginning this time.

I currently have a 65 Gallon Tank with built in overflow, and a nice 42W x 27D Recess in a corner to put the tank into. I would like some advice on how to build this tank.

Let me give you all a list of what I have and what my goal is, then you can have a better idea on how to help.

The above mentioned tank and overflow kit
Electronic VH) ballast Rated up to 400 Watt.
2X 250 Watt Icecap Electronic MH Ballast
Mag 5 Punk.
Cap 1800 Pump
2X Auqa C Remora Skimmers.
A LOT of sand. And I do mean a LOT. Probably around 100-120 lbs. of the stuff.
A bunch of Powerheads
Heater (Can't remember the brand of rating but it was a Metal one for my old 75)
100+ Pounds of "dead" Rock about 15lbs of Live rock.

So here is what I want.
A tank that won't make my electric bill go through the roof or make my greatroom feel like a sauna.
I used to run 4 powerheads in a tank and the overflow was an over the back type. I know this is a pard of the reason for the higher bill. I am willing to sell my old stuff and buy new stuff if I can have a more efficient tank.

I plan on having a DSB. I know the debate still lives over this Vs. BB but I know what I like. I will of course have a Sump. I was thinking os using a 38 Gallon tank for this due to space constraints but al open to other options as well.

I will be keeping fish and soft corals. I may get some hard ones in the future but right now I am worried about the basics.

Well there you go. I miss my reef, I miss my beautiful fish. Help me get started again.

P.S. I almost forgot. The builder only put a 15 AMP Breaker in the Greatroom. I am thinking I should go ahead and upgrade this to a 20. Any opinions?

boxfishpooalot · 02/25/2007, 01:05 PM

Wow you hit us with a lot of info. I feel obligated to answer them all. Unfortunately I dont know all those answers, esp the ampage one.

But I will say this: Set the tank up and get going! What exactly is your worry?

You got a lot of sand. Put in minumum 2inches more if you want it. I dont think you need 2 skimmers of the same kind. Since you want to save on electricity just use 1 of them. Sell of the other and all your powerheads if you can and get a vortec pump. They are really expensive but have tons of flow thats controllable down to 100gph all the way to 3000gph. Much like a tunze stream. I think the cost is about 350$. They will cut down on your electricity cost too. and not add heat to the water.

Well thats a good start.

Azizza · 02/25/2007, 01:09 PM

The main thing I need advice on is ways to cut down on power consumption. I was thinking of having 1 very strong return pump and splitting it into 2 or 4 in the display. 1 pump even a larger one should draw less power than multiple small ones.

And of course the lights are my biggest worry. What is going to give me good output with lower actual draw and heat production?

boxfishpooalot · 02/25/2007, 01:11 PM

I would go with a slow pump for the return and a vortec in the main tank for super effeiceint flow.

Azizza · 02/25/2007, 01:14 PM

Oh yeah. And can anyone help me out on sectioning off my sump. I will be honest that is a science that has eluded me. THe labor part isnt' a big deal. but I would like to know the mechanics of how it should be set up.

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 01:22 PM

Changing a 15A breaker to a 20A is not all that easy. You need to know the wire size and length to know if it will handle the extra load. Normally they are different gauges of wire.

Myka · 02/25/2007, 01:48 PM

T5 lighting is the most efficient way to light a tank. VHO isn't very good, and MH is expensive on electricity and heat. I have T5s, and can keep softies, most LPS, and I am told I can likely keep Montipora (a SPS).

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 02:47 PM

I would disagree on the lighting, nothing compares to MH for growth and intensity and nothing compares to VHO super actinics for coloration. T5 just does not have the colors yet and it will never provide the shimmer effect MH does. T5 is 100% dependent on the individual reflectors and does not have the spread of either MH or VHO. They may be the wave of the future but they are not there yet, maybe some day though.

Myka · 02/25/2007, 03:07 PM

I only suggested the T5s because he is worried about electricity consumption and is only wanting to keep softies. VHO on their own aren't very good lights. As actinics, sure, they are great. MH and VHO together can't be beat, I agree. But for electricity consumption there's no point in running the MH for softies, IMO. Maybe just for softies the VHO would be fine...not sure. What do you think about that view DesertRat?

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 03:18 PM

Some of the most sucessful SPS tanks I have ever seen have been VHO only. I know thats not the norm but it is entirely possible.
2x250w MH in a 14k would not need any actinic suplementation. To cover the tank evenly how many T5s would it take, I am thinking 6 or 8 depending on the front to back depth of the 65. T5 bulbs are than the 2x250 MH on electronic ballasts.

Peter Eichler · 02/25/2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
Some of the most sucessful SPS tanks I have ever seen have been VHO only. I know thats not the norm but it is entirely possible.
2x250w MH in a 14k would not need any actinic suplementation. To cover the tank evenly how many T5s would it take, I am thinking 6 or 8 depending on the front to back depth of the 65. T5 bulbs are than the 2x250 MH on electronic ballasts.

4x39w T5s would be plenty for soft corals over a 65g tank and would save nicely on the electric bill. 6x39w T5s with individual reflectors over a 65 will allow him to keep any coral he wants. I don't know why you're disputing it, but for his needs T5s would be a much better choice than his current MH setup.

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 03:44 PM

If you like the looks of T5s I suppose. Personally I don't.

Peter Eichler · 02/25/2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
If you like the looks of T5s I suppose. Personally I don't.

That's a strange statement to me. Besides having less shimmer (they can have some) it's rather easy to get just about any color spectrum you want depending on what bulb combination you go with.

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 04:10 PM

all that talk about MH i have 3x250 and 4x96 . MH are not on yet tank is 3 weeks old only actinic are on .how much eletric are we talking about? may i will switch to t5's

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 04:21 PM

Watts equals watts so 3x250 will be close to 750 watts depending on the efficiency of the ballasts.
I have been waiting for a T5 that will replace the URI/UV Lighting VHO SuperActinic R and have not seen it yet, they just don't have the same fluorescence as VHO does and the shimmer is minimal compared to MH. Personal preference I guess.

Myka · 02/25/2007, 04:24 PM

I do have to agree with you (as I said previously) that MH with VHO actinic just can't be beat as far as how it looks. That's how you get the best looking lighting for sure! But when it comes to the electricity bill...that's another story.

Peter Eichler · 02/25/2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adam1969
all that talk about MH i have 3x250 and 4x96 . MH are not on yet tank is 3 weeks old only actinic are on .how much eletric are we talking about? may i will switch to t5's

Lets say you yse 2x250 MH over the tank vs. 6x39 W T5s. You will effectiovely be using less than half as much electricity withe the T5s and you're not really limiting yourself with what you can keep. You'll probably also be able to sell off your old lighting for more than what you'll have to pay for 3 2x39w SLS retrofits with bulbs. You'll also save some money on bulbs as time goes on 6xT5s will be $15-25 a bulb so you're looking at around $120+ vs. $150+ for 2x 250w MH bulbs.

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 04:53 PM

If you go T5 make sure you get individual reflectors for each bulb. They are the key to their intensity.

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 04:54 PM

ok light cost me $1200 it is coraline so should consider selling it and buying t5's my tank is build in in the wall so no problem hiding lights. have 7 foot closet on another side what u guy suggest. i would like save little money since i already spend $5000 plus.any savings is great.what kind of lighting i would need for my 215gal. reef tank.

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 04:59 PM

If you plan on keeping SPS or LPS hard corals you will be much happier with the light you have. It will take a bunch of T5s and reflectors to cover a 215G tank efficiently

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 05:00 PM

and bulbs i got fro ebay for 4.99 plus shipping 250 10000k i don't know how long they will last . i tried one and is not too bed little yellow.

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 05:05 PM

now u have 100 gal tank and 17 year of of reefin' . an how much more electric are we talkin about $50 $80more a month.

AZDesertRat · 02/25/2007, 05:09 PM

On the main page there is an electrical calculator that can be used to figure how much it costs to run a system. Plug in different lighting scenarios and equipment you wil be using and you can get a pretty good idea.

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 05:10 PM

since i'm learning what u think about power heads tunze 6025 6055 or echo-vortech . i have two seido's 800and 1100 gph in the back but i need some in the front.

adam1969 · 02/25/2007, 05:14 PM

is the brown algae normal for 3 week old tank. pet store told me too use cilica remover and i have hair like algae too. do i need to do somethig.

02/25/2007, 12:34 PM	#1
Azizza Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Henryville, Indiana Posts: 167	Getting back into the hobby and need some advice! Due to numerous reasons including the plans of moving, a major tank Crash, and a Wedding, I have been out of the hobby for about 2 years. The only fish I have had is a single clownfish in a 16 Gallon Bowfront. No Coral, and just a cleaner shrimp for company. The poor guy has been quite lonely. Anyway, My wife and I have moved into a new house and i have the chance to do things right from the beginning this time. I currently have a 65 Gallon Tank with built in overflow, and a nice 42W x 27D Recess in a corner to put the tank into. I would like some advice on how to build this tank. Let me give you all a list of what I have and what my goal is, then you can have a better idea on how to help. The above mentioned tank and overflow kit Electronic VH) ballast Rated up to 400 Watt. 2X 250 Watt Icecap Electronic MH Ballast Mag 5 Punk. Cap 1800 Pump 2X Auqa C Remora Skimmers. A LOT of sand. And I do mean a LOT. Probably around 100-120 lbs. of the stuff. A bunch of Powerheads Heater (Can't remember the brand of rating but it was a Metal one for my old 75) 100+ Pounds of "dead" Rock about 15lbs of Live rock. So here is what I want. A tank that won't make my electric bill go through the roof or make my greatroom feel like a sauna. I used to run 4 powerheads in a tank and the overflow was an over the back type. I know this is a pard of the reason for the higher bill. I am willing to sell my old stuff and buy new stuff if I can have a more efficient tank. I plan on having a DSB. I know the debate still lives over this Vs. BB but I know what I like. I will of course have a Sump. I was thinking os using a 38 Gallon tank for this due to space constraints but al open to other options as well. I will be keeping fish and soft corals. I may get some hard ones in the future but right now I am worried about the basics. Well there you go. I miss my reef, I miss my beautiful fish. Help me get started again. P.S. I almost forgot. The builder only put a 15 AMP Breaker in the Greatroom. I am thinking I should go ahead and upgrade this to a 20. Any opinions? Last edited by Azizza; 02/25/2007 at 12:52 PM.

02/25/2007, 01:05 PM	#2
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	Wow you hit us with a lot of info. I feel obligated to answer them all. Unfortunately I dont know all those answers, esp the ampage one. But I will say this: Set the tank up and get going! What exactly is your worry? You got a lot of sand. Put in minumum 2inches more if you want it. I dont think you need 2 skimmers of the same kind. Since you want to save on electricity just use 1 of them. Sell of the other and all your powerheads if you can and get a vortec pump. They are really expensive but have tons of flow thats controllable down to 100gph all the way to 3000gph. Much like a tunze stream. I think the cost is about 350$. They will cut down on your electricity cost too. and not add heat to the water. Well thats a good start. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

02/25/2007, 01:11 PM	#4
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	I would go with a slow pump for the return and a vortec in the main tank for super effeiceint flow. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

02/25/2007, 01:48 PM	#7
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	T5 lighting is the most efficient way to light a tank. VHO isn't very good, and MH is expensive on electricity and heat. I have T5s, and can keep softies, most LPS, and I am told I can likely keep Montipora (a SPS). __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

02/25/2007, 03:07 PM	#9
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	I only suggested the T5s because he is worried about electricity consumption and is only wanting to keep softies. VHO on their own aren't very good lights. As actinics, sure, they are great. MH and VHO together can't be beat, I agree. But for electricity consumption there's no point in running the MH for softies, IMO. Maybe just for softies the VHO would be fine...not sure. What do you think about that view DesertRat? __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

02/25/2007, 01:09 PM	#3
Azizza Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Henryville, Indiana Posts: 167	The main thing I need advice on is ways to cut down on power consumption. I was thinking of having 1 very strong return pump and splitting it into 2 or 4 in the display. 1 pump even a larger one should draw less power than multiple small ones. And of course the lights are my biggest worry. What is going to give me good output with lower actual draw and heat production?

02/25/2007, 01:14 PM	#5
Azizza Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Henryville, Indiana Posts: 167	Oh yeah. And can anyone help me out on sectioning off my sump. I will be honest that is a science that has eluded me. THe labor part isnt' a big deal. but I would like to know the mechanics of how it should be set up.

02/25/2007, 01:22 PM	#6
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Changing a 15A breaker to a 20A is not all that easy. You need to know the wire size and length to know if it will handle the extra load. Normally they are different gauges of wire.

02/25/2007, 02:47 PM	#8
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	I would disagree on the lighting, nothing compares to MH for growth and intensity and nothing compares to VHO super actinics for coloration. T5 just does not have the colors yet and it will never provide the shimmer effect MH does. T5 is 100% dependent on the individual reflectors and does not have the spread of either MH or VHO. They may be the wave of the future but they are not there yet, maybe some day though.

02/25/2007, 03:18 PM	#10
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Some of the most sucessful SPS tanks I have ever seen have been VHO only. I know thats not the norm but it is entirely possible. 2x250w MH in a 14k would not need any actinic suplementation. To cover the tank evenly how many T5s would it take, I am thinking 6 or 8 depending on the front to back depth of the 65. T5 bulbs are than the 2x250 MH on electronic ballasts.

02/25/2007, 03:44 PM	#12
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	If you like the looks of T5s I suppose. Personally I don't.

02/25/2007, 04:10 PM	#14
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	all that talk about MH i have 3x250 and 4x96 . MH are not on yet tank is 3 weeks old only actinic are on .how much eletric are we talking about? may i will switch to t5's

02/25/2007, 04:21 PM	#15
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Watts equals watts so 3x250 will be close to 750 watts depending on the efficiency of the ballasts. I have been waiting for a T5 that will replace the URI/UV Lighting VHO SuperActinic R and have not seen it yet, they just don't have the same fluorescence as VHO does and the shimmer is minimal compared to MH. Personal preference I guess.

02/25/2007, 04:24 PM	#16
Myka Reefing since '93 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 2,436	I do have to agree with you (as I said previously) that MH with VHO actinic just can't be beat as far as how it looks. That's how you get the best looking lighting for sure! But when it comes to the electricity bill...that's another story. __________________ ~ Mindy, SPS addict. Current Tank Info: 69 SPS (73 gal net) established July 1/15. (HBD Canada!) ATB 840, ATI 6-bulb dimmable. Fauna Marin balling lite method.

02/25/2007, 04:53 PM	#18
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	If you go T5 make sure you get individual reflectors for each bulb. They are the key to their intensity.

02/25/2007, 04:54 PM	#19
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	ok light cost me $1200 it is coraline so should consider selling it and buying t5's my tank is build in in the wall so no problem hiding lights. have 7 foot closet on another side what u guy suggest. i would like save little money since i already spend $5000 plus.any savings is great.what kind of lighting i would need for my 215gal. reef tank.

02/25/2007, 04:59 PM	#20
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	If you plan on keeping SPS or LPS hard corals you will be much happier with the light you have. It will take a bunch of T5s and reflectors to cover a 215G tank efficiently

02/25/2007, 05:00 PM	#21
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	and bulbs i got fro ebay for 4.99 plus shipping 250 10000k i don't know how long they will last . i tried one and is not too bed little yellow.

02/25/2007, 05:05 PM	#22
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	now u have 100 gal tank and 17 year of of reefin' . an how much more electric are we talkin about $50 $80more a month.

02/25/2007, 05:09 PM	#23
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	On the main page there is an electrical calculator that can be used to figure how much it costs to run a system. Plug in different lighting scenarios and equipment you wil be using and you can get a pretty good idea.

02/25/2007, 05:10 PM	#24
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	since i'm learning what u think about power heads tunze 6025 6055 or echo-vortech . i have two seido's 800and 1100 gph in the back but i need some in the front.

02/25/2007, 05:14 PM	#25
adam1969 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Douglassville PA Posts: 109	is the brown algae normal for 3 week old tank. pet store told me too use cilica remover and i have hair like algae too. do i need to do somethig.