I need something to clean my sand

lakwriter · 03/08/2007, 05:20 PM

I currently have astreas, nassarius, and hermits. But nothing really does a good job of eating the diatoms/algea on the surface of the sand. What else can I add to my clean-up crew?

damac20 · 03/08/2007, 08:29 PM

how about a sea cucumber or some kind of sand sifting goby to stir things up

btkrausen · 03/08/2007, 08:58 PM

You could do a sand sifting star. I have one medium sized star, 5-6 of the super nassarius, around 8 dwarf hermits, and a few larger hermits that i'm getting rid of.

My sand stays pretty darn white.

RedEyeElf · 03/08/2007, 09:29 PM

my cucumber was my favorite addition to my cleaning crew

ahullsb · 03/08/2007, 09:50 PM

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1055307

My friend recommended this...

bbehring · 03/08/2007, 10:21 PM

what's the best sand sifting sea cucumber?

Fcataudo · 03/08/2007, 10:22 PM

sand sifting star, sea cuke, or conch

graveyardworm · 03/08/2007, 10:30 PM

I would stay away from the sand sifting star, it will eat all of the life out of your sand bed, and in a 29g tank will starve. The sand bed in a 29g is nowhere near large enough to support the star. A sand sifting cuke may do okay, the best would be a tiger tail research these and try to get one that will remain small. Again a 29g just doesnt have enough sand to sustain one long term.

Fighting conch would be good, and cerith snails.

lakwriter · 03/09/2007, 05:34 PM

Thanks...is there a concern with the tiger tail that it could release toxins into the tank?

lakwriter · 03/09/2007, 05:39 PM

Srs. Foster&Smith.com says bumble bee snails are sand sifters...are these good, bad, indifferent?

boxfishpooalot · 03/09/2007, 05:45 PM

not great at doing a sand sifting job. I recommend the cucumber. Thats their job in nature sifting through leftovers.

bbehring · 03/09/2007, 06:12 PM

how long should the sand bed be established before you add a sea cuke such as the tigertail?

graveyardworm · 03/09/2007, 07:12 PM

For the tiger tail the sand bed just needs to be able to produce enough algae and detritus. Once some fish have been in there a little while ( a month or two ) you should be okay to add the tiger tail. Remember to research which one you are getting, some get very large.

I would stay away from the bumble bee snails they eat sand bed infauna and will destroy your sand bed, just like the sand sifting star.

RWillieK · 03/09/2007, 07:19 PM

graveyardworm - I have to disagree - mine has been in a 20 gallon tan kwith approximatly and inch and a half of sand for over a year now, doing just fine.

Robbie

lakwriter · 03/09/2007, 07:45 PM

is there a concern with the tiger tail that it could release toxins into the tank?

MikeD · 03/09/2007, 09:03 PM

So sand sifting stars will eat stuff OTHER than the diatoms and algae on the sand? I know the burrow in, come out, move around, burrow again. Does their diet consist of all the worms etc in the sandbed?

RWillieK · 03/09/2007, 09:12 PM

I'm not sure what he eats, but I've had hime about four years or so now.....at one time he started to dissolve for some unknown reason, but he recovered well.

I've always had relativly shallow sand beds.....he's be in three different tanks now....soon to be a fourth.

Robbie

MikeD · 03/09/2007, 09:15 PM

I have a sand sifting star fish in my 40 breeder at the high school I teach at and the sand is pristine - no fish in there just corals - pods everywhere and all sorts of 'bugs' on the glass! But I don't know about what's in the sand bed...

Mike

boxfishpooalot · 03/09/2007, 09:21 PM

your sand is prisine because you have no fish in there

You can add a cucumber as soon as fish start pooping. Thats what its going to eat.

MikeD · 03/09/2007, 09:37 PM

But before the sand sifting starfish, it was coated in nasty brown diatoms and other random hairy algae ickyness. Added the starfish and a sea hare, all the algae probs went away - sea hare is now making it's rounds eating hair algae from various tanks in the chicagoland area!

graveyardworm · 03/09/2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RWillieK
I'm not sure what he eats, but I've had hime about four years or so now.....at one time he started to dissolve for some unknown reason, but he recovered well.

I've always had relativly shallow sand beds.....he's be in three different tanks now....soon to be a fourth.

Robbie

There are exceptions to every rule, and having kept one for four years you are it. Most dont make it a year, some longer, but not much. Perhaps switching it from tank to tank has kept it in an environment with enough food.

Based on the experts opinions/writings, and having read enough of " why are my starfish's legs falling off " threads I have come to the conclusion that they are not suitable for most reef tanks, and therefore have no personal experience.

petoonia · 03/09/2007, 09:46 PM

With the sand sifting starfish it can take up to 18 months for it to show any signs of starvation. It seems some people have success with them and some dont.

RWillieK-my guess is the reason your sand star is doing so well is because it was moved to different tanks before it could starve. You might actually be onto something with that. For people who really want to keep one, they could alternate the star between tanks. That way it wouldnt starve, and the sandbed could repopulate then you could switch the star back to the original tank. I wonder how often you would have to switch tanks?

MikeD · 03/09/2007, 09:51 PM

maybe start a network of a few people to rotate the starfish in your local area reef club!

RWillieK · 03/09/2007, 10:02 PM

Lol MikeD...

Salamander · 03/09/2007, 10:48 PM

Why do people get so stubborn about keeping sand sifting stars. Do enough research and you'll see they are not the best option for a reef tank. They must be easy to catch in large quantities and that could explain why every LFS sells them. They'll just long enough that you don't know why it died. But starvation is a cruel way to go.

True...maybe rotating them through a reef club can kep one alive but is it really worth the benefits? My understanding is that they don't eat the algae, just stir it up.

03/08/2007, 05:20 PM	#1
lakwriter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 562	I need something to clean my sand I currently have astreas, nassarius, and hermits. But nothing really does a good job of eating the diatoms/algea on the surface of the sand. What else can I add to my clean-up crew? __________________ And this, too, shall pass... 29 g FOWLR 37# LR, 35# LS 2 green chromis 2 ocellaris clowns a very social peppermint shrimp and various snails and hermits

03/08/2007, 08:29 PM	#2
damac20 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 838	how about a sea cucumber or some kind of sand sifting goby to stir things up __________________ "Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand."

03/08/2007, 08:58 PM	#3
btkrausen Fish Hoarder Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 1,033	You could do a sand sifting star. I have one medium sized star, 5-6 of the super nassarius, around 8 dwarf hermits, and a few larger hermits that i'm getting rid of. My sand stays pretty darn white. __________________ Marineland 220 Build in Progress

03/08/2007, 09:50 PM	#5
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1055307 My friend recommended this... __________________ Andy Sacramento, CA Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef w/20 gallon sump/ER135/ 75 pounds of live rock, 4 in sandbed, 2 b&w ocellaris clowns, yellow watchman/pistol, rosy scaled wrasse, Mystery wrasse, Copperbanded Butterfly, Lighting 48" outer orbit 2 150 mh/ 4 t5 actinics

03/08/2007, 10:30 PM	#8
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	I would stay away from the sand sifting star, it will eat all of the life out of your sand bed, and in a 29g tank will starve. The sand bed in a 29g is nowhere near large enough to support the star. A sand sifting cuke may do okay, the best would be a tiger tail research these and try to get one that will remain small. Again a 29g just doesnt have enough sand to sustain one long term. Fighting conch would be good, and cerith snails. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/08/2007, 09:29 PM	#4
RedEyeElf Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 462	my cucumber was my favorite addition to my cleaning crew

03/08/2007, 10:21 PM	#6
bbehring Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hemet, California Posts: 917	what's the best sand sifting sea cucumber?

03/08/2007, 10:22 PM	#7
Fcataudo Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CT Posts: 467	sand sifting star, sea cuke, or conch

03/09/2007, 05:34 PM	#9
lakwriter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 562	Thanks...is there a concern with the tiger tail that it could release toxins into the tank? __________________ And this, too, shall pass... 29 g FOWLR 37# LR, 35# LS 2 green chromis 2 ocellaris clowns a very social peppermint shrimp and various snails and hermits

03/09/2007, 05:39 PM	#10
lakwriter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 562	Srs. Foster&Smith.com says bumble bee snails are sand sifters...are these good, bad, indifferent? __________________ And this, too, shall pass... 29 g FOWLR 37# LR, 35# LS 2 green chromis 2 ocellaris clowns a very social peppermint shrimp and various snails and hermits

03/09/2007, 05:45 PM	#11
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	not great at doing a sand sifting job. I recommend the cucumber. Thats their job in nature sifting through leftovers. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

03/09/2007, 06:12 PM	#12
bbehring Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hemet, California Posts: 917	how long should the sand bed be established before you add a sea cuke such as the tigertail?

03/09/2007, 07:12 PM	#13
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	For the tiger tail the sand bed just needs to be able to produce enough algae and detritus. Once some fish have been in there a little while ( a month or two ) you should be okay to add the tiger tail. Remember to research which one you are getting, some get very large. I would stay away from the bumble bee snails they eat sand bed infauna and will destroy your sand bed, just like the sand sifting star. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

03/09/2007, 07:19 PM	#14
RWillieK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 594	graveyardworm - I have to disagree - mine has been in a 20 gallon tan kwith approximatly and inch and a half of sand for over a year now, doing just fine. Robbie __________________ Five out of Four People have Trouble with Fractions. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon display, 40 gallon sump, 20 Gallon Fuge, AquaController Jr w/ Serial upgrade, Velocity T2 Return, Modified ASM G2 Skimmer, 2 x 150w 14K MH, Coralife Ca Reactor, DIY Kalk Reactor

03/09/2007, 07:45 PM	#15
lakwriter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 562	is there a concern with the tiger tail that it could release toxins into the tank? __________________ And this, too, shall pass... 29 g FOWLR 37# LR, 35# LS 2 green chromis 2 ocellaris clowns a very social peppermint shrimp and various snails and hermits

03/09/2007, 09:03 PM	#16
MikeD Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,364	So sand sifting stars will eat stuff OTHER than the diatoms and algae on the sand? I know the burrow in, come out, move around, burrow again. Does their diet consist of all the worms etc in the sandbed? __________________ Always working on 'my baby' - There 'was' a little red house icon for the build but now it's gone... :( Current Tank Info: Previous: Elos System 160

03/09/2007, 09:12 PM	#17
RWillieK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 594	I'm not sure what he eats, but I've had hime about four years or so now.....at one time he started to dissolve for some unknown reason, but he recovered well. I've always had relativly shallow sand beds.....he's be in three different tanks now....soon to be a fourth. Robbie __________________ Five out of Four People have Trouble with Fractions. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon display, 40 gallon sump, 20 Gallon Fuge, AquaController Jr w/ Serial upgrade, Velocity T2 Return, Modified ASM G2 Skimmer, 2 x 150w 14K MH, Coralife Ca Reactor, DIY Kalk Reactor

03/09/2007, 09:15 PM	#18
MikeD Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,364	I have a sand sifting star fish in my 40 breeder at the high school I teach at and the sand is pristine - no fish in there just corals - pods everywhere and all sorts of 'bugs' on the glass! But I don't know about what's in the sand bed... Mike __________________ Always working on 'my baby' - There 'was' a little red house icon for the build but now it's gone... :( Current Tank Info: Previous: Elos System 160

03/09/2007, 09:21 PM	#19
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	your sand is prisine because you have no fish in there You can add a cucumber as soon as fish start pooping. Thats what its going to eat. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

03/09/2007, 09:37 PM	#20
MikeD Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,364	But before the sand sifting starfish, it was coated in nasty brown diatoms and other random hairy algae ickyness. Added the starfish and a sea hare, all the algae probs went away - sea hare is now making it's rounds eating hair algae from various tanks in the chicagoland area! __________________ Always working on 'my baby' - There 'was' a little red house icon for the build but now it's gone... :( Current Tank Info: Previous: Elos System 160

03/09/2007, 09:46 PM	#22
petoonia HereWeGoAgain... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,648	With the sand sifting starfish it can take up to 18 months for it to show any signs of starvation. It seems some people have success with them and some dont. RWillieK-my guess is the reason your sand star is doing so well is because it was moved to different tanks before it could starve. You might actually be onto something with that. For people who really want to keep one, they could alternate the star between tanks. That way it wouldnt starve, and the sandbed could repopulate then you could switch the star back to the original tank. I wonder how often you would have to switch tanks? __________________ I've been in the hobby for about 10 years....(so I know a little bit)...(but not all that much).... Current Tank Info: 58G. Oceanic (Starphire). Mixed Reef

03/09/2007, 09:51 PM	#23
MikeD Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,364	maybe start a network of a few people to rotate the starfish in your local area reef club! __________________ Always working on 'my baby' - There 'was' a little red house icon for the build but now it's gone... :( Current Tank Info: Previous: Elos System 160

03/09/2007, 10:02 PM	#24
RWillieK Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 594	Lol MikeD... __________________ Five out of Four People have Trouble with Fractions. Current Tank Info: 90 gallon display, 40 gallon sump, 20 Gallon Fuge, AquaController Jr w/ Serial upgrade, Velocity T2 Return, Modified ASM G2 Skimmer, 2 x 150w 14K MH, Coralife Ca Reactor, DIY Kalk Reactor

03/09/2007, 10:48 PM	#25
Salamander Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 2,103	Why do people get so stubborn about keeping sand sifting stars. Do enough research and you'll see they are not the best option for a reef tank. They must be easy to catch in large quantities and that could explain why every LFS sells them. They'll just long enough that you don't know why it died. But starvation is a cruel way to go. True...maybe rotating them through a reef club can kep one alive but is it really worth the benefits? My understanding is that they don't eat the algae, just stir it up. __________________ I feel more like myself now than I did before. Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef, 2 x 250W DE MH, 2 x 54w T5, MSX 200 SKimmer, 2 Koralia 4's, 40g fuge/sump, QT