advise on a sump-less tank setup

John27 · 03/26/2007, 04:36 PM

Hey everyone,
I've been out of the hobby for a bit and wanna get back in. Anyone have any experience with a sump-less tank setup, I mean, a 50gallon or so tank with a hangon skimmer, and maybe a hangon refugium. I would think using the berlin method this would work just fine, just wanted to get some opinions first.
John

Scottkelly911 · 03/26/2007, 05:52 PM

John, wow hang-on skimmer and hang-on refugium? Berlin method? You really have been out of the hobby for a long time. If you do some research you'll notice that almost everyone has now gone to the tried and true Pulyerleg method of reef keeping. It consists of an open topped skimmer that has utilized a crankbob pulley system with a return belt instead of your traditional venturi or needlewheels. As for Refugiums, they are now a thing of the past and most people are using Aquahouses to cultivate their pod populations. You simply put a Stage 3 or larger Makindisup and put some macro algae into it and the photosenthetic properties of the Imjhokin bulb will have the macro growing quickly and the pods will multiply almost beyond control!

...or you can do it your way hahaha. Welcome back, you'll be just fine with your hang-on skimmer and refugium

Some things have changed in the last few years, but not too many. But get rid of any bio-balls, that's about the biggest change in the last few years as far as filteration.

PrangeWay · 03/27/2007, 01:25 PM

Pretty light on respsones so I'll chip in.

I've run a few sumpless tanks (including my LPS tank), while it's not for SPS in the Softie/LPS world it rocks. If I was going to setup a new sumpless systems for my Softie/LPS I'd get...

- 50gall AGA tank/stand
- t5 lighting (current? whatever, don't need alot of par).
- Tunze nano-pak (skimmer, surface filter, intneral but small, comes with magnet holder).
- CPR hang-on refuge w/light
- 4" Sandbed and as much Rock was you want.
- Somesortof auto-topoff you can hide in a corner (skimmer, surface skimmer work better w/constant water level).

My current LPS, sumpless tank.

John27 · 03/27/2007, 07:17 PM

Thats kinda the setup I'm thinking about, a cube shaped tank, 2'x2'x2' or so with a Remora skimmer and a hangon refuge, I have some 150W metal halides around so I'd use one of them with with some VHO hights or CF's because I also have an icecap 430 around somewhere's also

PrangeWay · 03/27/2007, 07:30 PM

If you don't mind the internal thing I'd think more about the tunze skimmers. I owned 2 remoras and 3 different Tunze internals, the tunzes skims more in a day than the remoras do in a week. Hang-On refuges do rock though

PW

John27 · 03/27/2007, 07:51 PM

thanks for the suggestion, checking out the tunze site right now, if I remember correctly these sit at the top of the water line hanging below the surface just a few inch's, correct? This may even be better because then I will only have the refug along the back, outside the tank giving me more space to get a larger one

Zestay · 03/27/2007, 08:10 PM

might want to incorpate a false back.. just an idea.

Pharmboy · 03/27/2007, 08:20 PM

LOL! That's a good one! I have a 48 gallon cube with a hang-on refugium and skimmer. Only put cheato in the refugium and upgradedthe skimmer/venturi. It rocked, no problems or worries about overflow or much noise too. Cheaper because the tank wasn't RR.

One thing I'd say is that I hated the visable powerhead feeding my skimmer in the cube. If it was a rectangular tank with more surface area, this wouldn't be a problem, but in my cube I thought it looked ugly. I'd strongly recommend looking at Deltec MCE HOB skimmer. It contains a needle wheel skimmer, space to hide a heater, slim profile, and very quiet. The needlewheel powerhead is actually located inside the hang-on part, so less junk in the tank. In this case, you get what you pay for. Prior to that, I had a aqua C remora pro with a huge Mag3 stuck/surface skimmer in my tank. Talk about noise! Though it was a good skimmer.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottkelly911
John, wow hang-on skimmer and hang-on refugium? Berlin method? You really have been out of the hobby for a long time. If you do some research you'll notice that almost everyone has now gone to the tried and true Pulyerleg method of reef keeping. It consists of an open topped skimmer that has utilized a crankbob pulley system with a return belt instead of your traditional venturi or needlewheels. As for Refugiums, they are now a thing of the past and most people are using Aquahouses to cultivate their pod populations. You simply put a Stage 3 or larger Makindisup and put some macro algae into it and the photosenthetic properties of the Imjhokin bulb will have the macro growing quickly and the pods will multiply almost beyond control!

...or you can do it your way hahaha. Welcome back, you'll be just fine with your hang-on skimmer and refugium Some things have changed in the last few years, but not too many. But get rid of any bio-balls, that's about the biggest change in the last few years as far as filteration.

Ocean In A Box · 03/27/2007, 08:46 PM

Maybe my setup will help you decide.

I am just about to start an Oceanic 30g cube, very similar to what it sounds like you're thinking of.

I also have a RemoraPro w/ Mag3 pump left over from my last 75g tank that I was going to use. But, I too like a cleaner look w/out PH's all over the place in there, and w/ the Remora you definitely see it in there.

And, I have a 150W MH w/ actinic lights that I'll use to light the tank.

The other route I was thinking of going, that you could do, was to drill a tank like this, although I'm not sure I'm up to this project and looking for help in that area. I believe I'd have to figure out a drain & return setup thru the side glass since the bottom is tempered and could not be drilled.

As far as refugiums, can someone recommend a high-quality one based on your own experiences? Is there something that would fit a cube this size?

For the money, I think you'd love the Oceanic cube tanks and they're high quality IMO.

Shekki · 03/27/2007, 08:49 PM

I had a 56 gallon glass tank built by Lee-Mar with a 5x25 (approx) 2 chamber compartment in the back. Flow enters from one side, into a skimmer, into the next chamber where it's returned from a Mag 5 through a Sea Swirl. Works well but my Finnex skimmer is crap.

Ocean In A Box · 04/14/2007, 10:39 AM

So, anyone have pics of their sumpless setups?
I am interested in experience/suggestions on Hang-On Refug's and pics in action too...if anyone has.

Thanks,

Orm Embar · 04/14/2007, 04:19 PM

My still-in-garage tank concept (to busy and funds are tight at the moment):

Oceanic 37 gallon tank
lighting (halide, can also go T5 with individual reflectors)
skimmer (Tunze nano, Coralife Super Skimmer, skimmerless with macroalgae and light bioload)
refugium (CPR)

You should be fine. The biggest problems you wil encounter is "which lights" and which skimmer?"

You could also add a Lifereef overflow and have a sump, too . . . or drill the tank.

Good luck!

03/26/2007, 04:36 PM	#1
John27 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 15	advise on a sump-less tank setup Hey everyone, I've been out of the hobby for a bit and wanna get back in. Anyone have any experience with a sump-less tank setup, I mean, a 50gallon or so tank with a hangon skimmer, and maybe a hangon refugium. I would think using the berlin method this would work just fine, just wanted to get some opinions first. John

03/26/2007, 05:52 PM	#2
Scottkelly911 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Venice Beach Posts: 426	John, wow hang-on skimmer and hang-on refugium? Berlin method? You really have been out of the hobby for a long time. If you do some research you'll notice that almost everyone has now gone to the tried and true Pulyerleg method of reef keeping. It consists of an open topped skimmer that has utilized a crankbob pulley system with a return belt instead of your traditional venturi or needlewheels. As for Refugiums, they are now a thing of the past and most people are using Aquahouses to cultivate their pod populations. You simply put a Stage 3 or larger Makindisup and put some macro algae into it and the photosenthetic properties of the Imjhokin bulb will have the macro growing quickly and the pods will multiply almost beyond control! ...or you can do it your way hahaha. Welcome back, you'll be just fine with your hang-on skimmer and refugium Some things have changed in the last few years, but not too many. But get rid of any bio-balls, that's about the biggest change in the last few years as far as filteration. __________________ 12 Gallon Nano Cube DX - nano sized gobies, zoos & Shrooms

03/27/2007, 01:25 PM	#3
PrangeWay Duke of Monte Fisto Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 722	sumpless Pretty light on respsones so I'll chip in. I've run a few sumpless tanks (including my LPS tank), while it's not for SPS in the Softie/LPS world it rocks. If I was going to setup a new sumpless systems for my Softie/LPS I'd get... - 50gall AGA tank/stand - t5 lighting (current? whatever, don't need alot of par). - Tunze nano-pak (skimmer, surface filter, intneral but small, comes with magnet holder). - CPR hang-on refuge w/light - 4" Sandbed and as much Rock was you want. - Somesortof auto-topoff you can hide in a corner (skimmer, surface skimmer work better w/constant water level). My current LPS, sumpless tank. __________________ Dumbest Quotes Ever..... "Great color, great growth" closely followed by "all water parameters fine"

03/27/2007, 07:30 PM	#5
PrangeWay Duke of Monte Fisto Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 722	If you don't mind the internal thing I'd think more about the tunze skimmers. I owned 2 remoras and 3 different Tunze internals, the tunzes skims more in a day than the remoras do in a week. Hang-On refuges do rock though PW __________________ Dumbest Quotes Ever..... "Great color, great growth" closely followed by "all water parameters fine"

03/27/2007, 08:46 PM	#9
Ocean In A Box Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: S.E. Wisconsin 53189, USA Posts: 433	Maybe my setup will help you decide. I am just about to start an Oceanic 30g cube, very similar to what it sounds like you're thinking of. I also have a RemoraPro w/ Mag3 pump left over from my last 75g tank that I was going to use. But, I too like a cleaner look w/out PH's all over the place in there, and w/ the Remora you definitely see it in there. And, I have a 150W MH w/ actinic lights that I'll use to light the tank. The other route I was thinking of going, that you could do, was to drill a tank like this, although I'm not sure I'm up to this project and looking for help in that area. I believe I'd have to figure out a drain & return setup thru the side glass since the bottom is tempered and could not be drilled. As far as refugiums, can someone recommend a high-quality one based on your own experiences? Is there something that would fit a cube this size? For the money, I think you'd love the Oceanic cube tanks and they're high quality IMO. __________________ Deep Blue Cube'ish Display Tank (72g...24"Lx24"Wx30"H) Skimz Sumpro UP21 Sump Tank (22g) ~~~ Ocean In A Box (mfl74) ~~~

03/27/2007, 07:17 PM	#4
John27 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 15	Thats kinda the setup I'm thinking about, a cube shaped tank, 2'x2'x2' or so with a Remora skimmer and a hangon refuge, I have some 150W metal halides around so I'd use one of them with with some VHO hights or CF's because I also have an icecap 430 around somewhere's also

03/27/2007, 07:51 PM	#6
John27 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 15	thanks for the suggestion, checking out the tunze site right now, if I remember correctly these sit at the top of the water line hanging below the surface just a few inch's, correct? This may even be better because then I will only have the refug along the back, outside the tank giving me more space to get a larger one

03/27/2007, 08:10 PM	#7
Zestay Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: gainesville, FL Posts: 1,622	might want to incorpate a false back.. just an idea.

03/27/2007, 08:49 PM	#10
Shekki Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ocean City, MD Posts: 651	I had a 56 gallon glass tank built by Lee-Mar with a 5x25 (approx) 2 chamber compartment in the back. Flow enters from one side, into a skimmer, into the next chamber where it's returned from a Mag 5 through a Sea Swirl. Works well but my Finnex skimmer is crap. __________________ Elos mini reef Current Tank Info: Elos mini, reefkeeper 2, Vortech MP20, ice cap moonlight, Reef Fanatic ATO

04/14/2007, 10:39 AM	#11
Ocean In A Box Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: S.E. Wisconsin 53189, USA Posts: 433	So, anyone have pics of their sumpless setups? I am interested in experience/suggestions on Hang-On Refug's and pics in action too...if anyone has. Thanks, __________________ Deep Blue Cube'ish Display Tank (72g...24"Lx24"Wx30"H) Skimz Sumpro UP21 Sump Tank (22g) ~~~ Ocean In A Box (mfl74) ~~~

04/14/2007, 04:19 PM	#12
Orm Embar Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 667	My still-in-garage tank concept (to busy and funds are tight at the moment): Oceanic 37 gallon tank lighting (halide, can also go T5 with individual reflectors) skimmer (Tunze nano, Coralife Super Skimmer, skimmerless with macroalgae and light bioload) refugium (CPR) You should be fine. The biggest problems you wil encounter is "which lights" and which skimmer?" You could also add a Lifereef overflow and have a sump, too . . . or drill the tank. Good luck! __________________ Mark (on AOL: Orm Embar) Quotes from my friends upon seeing my tank: "Hey, fresh sushi!"