Pumping water vertically 10 feet

FZ1Rider · 04/10/2007, 01:33 PM

My wife and I have decided that we made a huge mistake putting or saltwater tank in the basement. We've always had freshwater tanks and didn't realize how much saltwater would take a hold on us. Now after a few months we want to move the tank upstairs. But rather than have all the equipment upstairs we want to run plumbing downstairs and keep the sump / top off system / skimmer / etc down in the basement. All of this is easy to do for me but I'm concerned about the pump. Does anyone have a good idea for a pump that will push the water vertically ~8-10 feet? I currently have a rio 2100 as my biggest pumps. I'll need to test to see what the vertical load of this pump is.

Whatever pump I get I would like to do it on the cheap if possible.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Peter

chacha · 04/10/2007, 01:41 PM

Check out this link it gives you a idea based on what kind of gph you are looking for. Based on Mag-drive, my preference.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...me.asp?CartId=

papagimp · 04/10/2007, 01:41 PM

I don't really have a good idea for a particular pump, since I've only used a few in my time, but this shouldn't be diffucult at all. Heck, even a mag3 can push water 10ft up. You get alot of head loss but 10ft isn't really that big a deal.

And yes, saltwater is far more addictive than freshwater, I think it's a psychotropic drug placed in the saltmix that makes us want more and more saltwater related things in the house. Trust me when I say, it'll only get worse (or better, depending on how ya look at it, lol)

chacha · 04/10/2007, 01:47 PM

Better yet....on the home page of RC in the left margin there is a head loss calculater with just about every pump on the market. This should provide you with the info you need.

FZ1Rider · 04/10/2007, 04:24 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like my Rio 2100 pushes about 8 ft (from a small experiment I just did). I also thought of another strange idea. would it be possible to put a second pump inline to boost the thrust. Essentially the out from one will be piped into the in of another and then that one will push the rest of the way.

Peter

leebo_28 · 04/10/2007, 04:36 PM

you are going to need a pump with a shutoff of atleast 20 or more ft or you will have no pressure at all...and thats only if your going straight up into tank(no elbows,tees,valves,etc..)

rm · 04/10/2007, 05:09 PM

I'm using a Blueline100 to pump water up 8ft from the basement to my 120.

It will overwhelm my 1400gph lifereef overflow if I do not bypass some of the flow back to the sump.

Drawbacks - More powerful pump means more heat in the tank - Blueline pump is not self priming (check valve would help).

rm · 04/10/2007, 05:13 PM

One more thought.

Noise could be a problem. All that water dropping back to the basement might change the sound in your overflows. I had to fight with it for a while to get some silence.

Sk8r · 04/10/2007, 05:16 PM

I just did this, and I have a 54g tank: I went for overkill and got an Iwaki 100, Japanese motor [you supply the plug]. It pushes flow up a 1" hose pretty hard---I'm about 15 feet, over all; and the required downflow is at least 1 1/4 inches: 1 1/2 would be better, but good luck finding flexible hose with that INTERNAL dimension: be sure you deal only in internal measures. What I ended up with for return hose is hot tub flex that comes in foot long segments joined by a ribless section, and it sags very comically once water comes through: I have mine rigged to the ceiling with macrame rope. It is extremely easy to cut and does not expand: it only stretches.

You'll want a 1" Union Ball Valve in the up line, which will enable you to throttle back the flow. I'm using over 3/4 of the available flow to power two 1/2 inch sea swirls.

Caution: the Iwaki is a 'dry' pump, not submersible, and it sounds like a jet engine taking off. Be sure you have a door you can close between it and family activity.

Noise: very quiet on the main floor: the loudest sound is the two fans on our light kit. The downflow is quiet, because the Iwaki shoves so much water upstairs that the downflow [remember I have only a 1 1/4" downflow hose] runs only 2" below the tank water level: noise, is when the downflow has a waterfall of 10" or so.

FZ1Rider · 04/10/2007, 06:16 PM

I think I'm going to go with a magdrive 18. At 10 feet it pushes 850 GPH which will be a bit of overkill for my 65g with 29g sump but it will at least offer more flexibility. For some reason it's 5 dollars cheaper than the Mag Drive 12.

Thanks for all the input.

Peter

oct2274 · 04/11/2007, 01:26 AM

Just so you know, that mag 18 is going to be fairly loud........ For an application like that I would run a pump that is made to run external, like these http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ps.asp?CartId=

I think you could get away with the 50PX.

pan world is 90 watts
the mag 18 is 145 watts, that is a ton of heat pumped into your system and it can only be run submerged.

You could upgrade to the panworld 100px for only 120 watts if you wanted the extra power.

Mags are decent pumps, but they fall flat on their faces under head pressure and to get the rated flow you have to use large plumbing. I truely don't think you'll be happy with the mag in the long run.

Shagsbeard · 04/11/2007, 05:57 AM

There are lower flow rate pumps designed not to be bothered by head loss. GenX has one. I'd get away from the idea of just using a standard pump that's over rated and use a pump designed to raise water.

FZ1Rider · 04/11/2007, 06:10 AM

My tank isn't dirlled so the pump will be submerged anyway. I'll take a look at the two mentioned and see if they are better for my needs.

Unfortunately I put in the order last night so that I can do the project this weekend. I can always return it if it's to loud though.

Thanks again for the info.

Peter

04/10/2007, 01:33 PM	#1
FZ1Rider Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alexandria Posts: 210	Pumping water vertically 10 feet My wife and I have decided that we made a huge mistake putting or saltwater tank in the basement. We've always had freshwater tanks and didn't realize how much saltwater would take a hold on us. Now after a few months we want to move the tank upstairs. But rather than have all the equipment upstairs we want to run plumbing downstairs and keep the sump / top off system / skimmer / etc down in the basement. All of this is easy to do for me but I'm concerned about the pump. Does anyone have a good idea for a pump that will push the water vertically ~8-10 feet? I currently have a rio 2100 as my biggest pumps. I'll need to test to see what the vertical load of this pump is. Whatever pump I get I would like to do it on the cheap if possible. Thanks in advance for the input. Peter

04/10/2007, 01:41 PM	#2
chacha Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 50	Check out this link it gives you a idea based on what kind of gph you are looking for. Based on Mag-drive, my preference. http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...me.asp?CartId= __________________ 75g Reef; 30g Fuge/Sump 2-150W HQI 14K;2-96W Actinic (Main) 1-96W 50/50 (Fuge) Current Tank Info: 75g reef; 30g Refugium

04/10/2007, 01:41 PM	#3
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	I don't really have a good idea for a particular pump, since I've only used a few in my time, but this shouldn't be diffucult at all. Heck, even a mag3 can push water 10ft up. You get alot of head loss but 10ft isn't really that big a deal. And yes, saltwater is far more addictive than freshwater, I think it's a psychotropic drug placed in the saltmix that makes us want more and more saltwater related things in the house. Trust me when I say, it'll only get worse (or better, depending on how ya look at it, lol) __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

04/10/2007, 01:47 PM	#4
chacha Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 50	Better yet....on the home page of RC in the left margin there is a head loss calculater with just about every pump on the market. This should provide you with the info you need. __________________ 75g Reef; 30g Fuge/Sump 2-150W HQI 14K;2-96W Actinic (Main) 1-96W 50/50 (Fuge) Current Tank Info: 75g reef; 30g Refugium

04/10/2007, 04:36 PM	#6
leebo_28 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fl/Pa now Posts: 456	you are going to need a pump with a shutoff of atleast 20 or more ft or you will have no pressure at all...and thats only if your going straight up into tank(no elbows,tees,valves,etc..) __________________ crayons go one drawer higher Current Tank Info: year 1/2 still new 90rr :(

04/10/2007, 04:24 PM	#5
FZ1Rider Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alexandria Posts: 210	Thanks for all the replies. Looks like my Rio 2100 pushes about 8 ft (from a small experiment I just did). I also thought of another strange idea. would it be possible to put a second pump inline to boost the thrust. Essentially the out from one will be piped into the in of another and then that one will push the rest of the way. Peter

04/10/2007, 05:09 PM	#7
rm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	I'm using a Blueline100 to pump water up 8ft from the basement to my 120. It will overwhelm my 1400gph lifereef overflow if I do not bypass some of the flow back to the sump. Drawbacks - More powerful pump means more heat in the tank - Blueline pump is not self priming (check valve would help). __________________ "People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

04/10/2007, 05:13 PM	#8
rm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 99	One more thought. Noise could be a problem. All that water dropping back to the basement might change the sound in your overflows. I had to fight with it for a while to get some silence. __________________ "People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

04/10/2007, 05:16 PM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I just did this, and I have a 54g tank: I went for overkill and got an Iwaki 100, Japanese motor [you supply the plug]. It pushes flow up a 1" hose pretty hard---I'm about 15 feet, over all; and the required downflow is at least 1 1/4 inches: 1 1/2 would be better, but good luck finding flexible hose with that INTERNAL dimension: be sure you deal only in internal measures. What I ended up with for return hose is hot tub flex that comes in foot long segments joined by a ribless section, and it sags very comically once water comes through: I have mine rigged to the ceiling with macrame rope. It is extremely easy to cut and does not expand: it only stretches. You'll want a 1" Union Ball Valve in the up line, which will enable you to throttle back the flow. I'm using over 3/4 of the available flow to power two 1/2 inch sea swirls. Caution: the Iwaki is a 'dry' pump, not submersible, and it sounds like a jet engine taking off. Be sure you have a door you can close between it and family activity. Noise: very quiet on the main floor: the loudest sound is the two fans on our light kit. The downflow is quiet, because the Iwaki shoves so much water upstairs that the downflow [remember I have only a 1 1/4" downflow hose] runs only 2" below the tank water level: noise, is when the downflow has a waterfall of 10" or so. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 04/10/2007 at 05:24 PM.

04/10/2007, 06:16 PM	#10
FZ1Rider Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alexandria Posts: 210	I think I'm going to go with a magdrive 18. At 10 feet it pushes 850 GPH which will be a bit of overkill for my 65g with 29g sump but it will at least offer more flexibility. For some reason it's 5 dollars cheaper than the Mag Drive 12. Thanks for all the input. Peter

04/11/2007, 01:26 AM	#11
oct2274 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 2,347	Just so you know, that mag 18 is going to be fairly loud........ For an application like that I would run a pump that is made to run external, like these http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ps.asp?CartId= I think you could get away with the 50PX. pan world is 90 watts the mag 18 is 145 watts, that is a ton of heat pumped into your system and it can only be run submerged. You could upgrade to the panworld 100px for only 120 watts if you wanted the extra power. Mags are decent pumps, but they fall flat on their faces under head pressure and to get the rated flow you have to use large plumbing. I truely don't think you'll be happy with the mag in the long run. Last edited by oct2274; 04/11/2007 at 01:43 AM.

04/11/2007, 05:57 AM	#12
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	There are lower flow rate pumps designed not to be bothered by head loss. GenX has one. I'd get away from the idea of just using a standard pump that's over rated and use a pump designed to raise water.

04/11/2007, 06:10 AM	#13
FZ1Rider Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alexandria Posts: 210	My tank isn't dirlled so the pump will be submerged anyway. I'll take a look at the two mentioned and see if they are better for my needs. Unfortunately I put in the order last night so that I can do the project this weekend. I can always return it if it's to loud though. Thanks again for the info. Peter