My nightmare continues. ID desperately needed. UPDATES!

redspot321 · 04/26/2007, 06:57 PM

Simply put, I am in dire straights! Please help me find a solution to this problem. I will lay this out as simply as possible.

I have had this problem for weeks now.

-Cloudy water, sps and lps polyps completely clamped shut and closed.
- Coral slime accumulating on EVERY type of mechanical filter to the point of complete blockage.
-All inverts and fish (shrimp, star, snails, clams, anemone) look wonderful!

Things Ive tried.....everything from water changes, to new bulbs, to new ro/di, running HOB, carbon, 100% water changes, removed ALL LR scrubed tank and put tank back together, Maracyn. Please trust me when I say everything is perfect water quality wise!

What has worked......

1. I separated ALL coals. I left ALL sps in the tank and placed all lps in a bucket with LR and water from the tank.
-The seperated LPS looked great the next day!! The sps looked bad in the tank....same water same rocks....

Once I placed the LPS back into the display it shrivled up and looked poor.

2. I switched corals in the tank. I removed all SPS into buckets and left the LPS in the display tank. The next day the SPS looked great and the LPS in the display looked bad.

Conclusion: The only thing I can think of is that the LR is releasing some sort of toxin. The toxin produced in the display gets sucked into the overflow, mixed with the water, and returned into the full water column causing ALL corals in the tank to close. The toxins released in the buckets accumulates on the surface of the water, NOT in the water column and all corals look great in buckets1

This is so weird, Could this be possible? Same water same rocks, just different container/plumbing.

When I came home from work tonight the display was still cloudy after weeks with carbon running, poly filter, and HOB. The water in the buckets was Crystal clear EXCEPT for a thin layer of this whitish, clear substance that was VERY thin with no bubbles. The corals in the buckets looked great.
I mannualy skimed the white layer off the top of the bucket water into a glass, shook it up and here it is.

Whats going on?????

redspot321 · 04/26/2007, 07:07 PM

Heres pics.
Same water, same rocks.

Display cloudy for weeks, all corals shrivle up in the tank.

Bucket Clear as a bell??

Paintbug · 04/26/2007, 07:15 PM

has the LR been in another tank before? do you know if it has ever been dosed with copper?

Blindmelonbob · 04/26/2007, 07:16 PM

Interesting. This problem just started to develop a few weeks ago? Are you using a skimmer?

stan zemanek · 04/26/2007, 07:17 PM

when all else fails.....OZONE or UV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i had trouble with cloudy water and all kinds of this slime (looked just like snot) on my rocks about 2 years ago, tried everything and nothing helped. so i hooked up a 40 watt uv light and within 6 hours my tank was crystal clear, i spent the next few days blowing off my rock to dislodge the slime and get it to the uv light. since then i have had no rouble with my tank. i would try UV first, its trouble free where as if you go with ozone you really need a controller or ORP meter

SDguy · 04/26/2007, 07:26 PM

Looks like when I tried using vinegar in my kalk in my old 30g reef. Developed such a bacterial bloom that everything was covered in slime, the skimmer went crazy producing foam that wouldn't "pop", and I almost suffocated my fish.

Have you been experimenting with any of those methods (sugar, vodka, vinegar)?

DarthBaiter · 04/26/2007, 07:32 PM

Maybe somethings up with the tank itself? Copper in the silicon...

kzoo · 04/26/2007, 07:33 PM

Were is your alk at? it almost looks like cal. percipition. If you did a major water change and it didnt help, it has to be in the rocks or tank.

redspot321 · 04/26/2007, 07:45 PM

This reef has been set up for 3 years. Tomorrow I am going to get some new LR from my LFS, it is already cured so it shouldnt be a big deal to the corals.
100% WC with 100% new LR. Yes I know it will be a shock, but everything is in shock now. I have to get it taken care now while the corals are still somewhat healthy.

"has the LR been in another tank before? do you know if it has ever been dosed with copper?"
-Never, its the same LR in both containers.

"This problem just started to develop a few weeks ago? Are you using a skimmer?"
-Yes my skimmer is rated for a 125gallon. My reef is a 55. Plus it is mesh moded.

zach0660 · 04/26/2007, 08:45 PM

dont do a 100% wc because that will just make the problem worse. If I were you, I would switch all the LR, but do like a 90 or 95 percent wc so that you still have some nutrients and bacteria.

zach0660 · 04/26/2007, 08:48 PM

Also before you do the wc, I would go buy a copper test kit and test the water to see if that is really the problem.

Randall_James · 04/26/2007, 09:04 PM

what are your water parameters?

Slime like that is usually bacterial (as said above already)
Also running SPS/LPS or mixing of corals can cause issues like this (chemical warfare)

redspot321 · 04/27/2007, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randall_James
what are your water parameters?

Slime like that is usually bacterial (as said above already)
Also running SPS/LPS or mixing of corals can cause issues like this (chemical warfare)

Thats what I origanally thought, thats why I seperated the corals and the problem still exist.
Parameters are text book perfect.

Randall_James · 04/27/2007, 06:48 AM

text book perfect does not mean a thing sorry....

Aquabucket · 04/27/2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zach0660
dont do a 100% wc because that will just make the problem worse. If I were you, I would switch all the LR, but do like a 90 or 95 percent wc so that you still have some nutrients and bacteria.

The bacteria you want to keep mainly lives on surface areas and not in the water column. Before you go and buy a bunch of LR you might want to try leaving your lights off for a few days. I know there may be no correlation between the lights and the slime/cloudy water you are seeing but it can't hurt anything if you give it a try.

Tang Salad · 04/27/2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquabucket
The bacteria you want to keep mainly lives on surface areas and not in the water column. Before you go and buy a bunch of LR you might want to try leaving your lights off for a few days. I know there may be no correlation between the lights and the slime/cloudy water you are seeing but it can't hurt anything if you give it a try.

That sounds like a good idea. I'd do that and also frequently blast the LR while skimming extra wet.

redspot321 · 04/27/2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tang Salad
That sounds like a good idea. I'd do that and also frequently blast the LR while skimming extra wet.

Tried them both. Skimming and lights out for 4 days.

LFS LR is not cured, I have to wait it out a few more days. Im going to return everything into the display but with low flow and partial volume. This way I can skim off the top like I am doing in the buckets.

CyanoMagnet · 04/27/2007, 11:10 AM

I dont know if I would keep taking the rock out and in and the 100% changes could be harmfull too. If your fish arent stressed see if you can wait it out.

Check water parameters and make sure its not cycling.

Im of the opinion that its a bacterial bloom.

Heres an idea. use a VERY SMALL (1/8th dosage ?)amount of marine anti bacterial drugs for fish.

If you can keep all your corals in a holding tank for a couple of days do it. The treatment shrunk my colt coral in (it became a mangled mess for a couple of months from the drug).

I have had some cyano problems in the past and using the marine antibacterial drugs cured it (along with fixing the problem which caused it to begin with.. The skimmer had a shell in the air intake).

Make sure you skim VERY HEAVY after treatement.. And see how long you can keep the skimmer off during treatement. If you see any signs of stress go full power and start doing water changes.

Blindmelonbob · 04/27/2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kzoo
it almost looks like cal. percipition.

It does, doesn't it? Are you dosing kalk? Are you dosing anything else?

Randall_James · 04/27/2007, 11:17 AM

ya know.... chemiclean (for cyano) may work here. As cyano is bacterial (not sure if it is gram negative or gram positive) You could get lucky and they are both of the same nature. If it does not work , go with Myracyn 2.

Sort of a shot in the dark but hey who knows

Calcium precipitation is not slimy, it either goes directly to the glass *and that is a nightmare or it falls out of the water column to the floor of the tank

CyanoMagnet · 04/27/2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randall_James
ya know.... chemiclean (for cyano) may work here. As cyano is bacterial (not sure if it is gram negative or gram positive) You could get lucky and they are both of the same nature. If it does not work , go with Myracyn 2.

Sort of a shot in the dark but hey who knows

Calcium precipitation is not slimy, it either goes directly to the glass *and that is a nightmare or it falls out of the water column to the floor of the tank

Thing you gotta be carefull with is wiping out your good bacteria, thats why you use much smaller dosages than recommended or you may wipe.

redspot321 · 04/27/2007, 06:32 PM

THANKS FOR THE REPLYS!!!! Keep em comming!

OK,

If your fish arent stressed see if you can wait it out.
My stonies and LPS were looking BAD I can always throw the fish into my FO 125, thats not a problem. Its the corals Im worried about. The massive water changes dilute the problem in the Water column.

Im of the opinion that its a bacterial bloom. I think so

Heres an idea. use a VERY SMALL (1/8th dosage ?)amount of marine anti bacterial drugs for fish.
I tried this in combination with lights out for 4 days, no change at all.
Are you dosing kalk? With all the water changes I havent dosed anything! just whatever comes out of the bucket.
chemiclean (for cyano) may work here
It may...Maybe that will be next.

go with Myracyn 2.
Is that reef safe?

UPDATE++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I transfered all corals back into the display and turned off my return pump to prevent the "substance" from being mixed into the water column. so far so good the corals look good and are opening.

I have super low flow in the tank to prevent surface agitation and Im begining to see what I think is the problem.
On all surfaces or the LR and tank there is what appears to be bubbles attached by clear strings being released int the wc. With the low flow, the bubbles and strings are flating to the top of the water and accumulating on the surface. I believe this to be the source. The question is , What is it?
I have 15lbs of fiji LR cooking in the living room. Nitrites are high. Once the nitrites die off Im going to make the switch. Im afraid I am going to contanimate the new LR wirt the old LR rubble that my corals are attached to. I would hate to have to break off every coral from its base to attach it to the LR

Do you think Maracyn2 and chemiclean are worth a shot?

redspot321 · 04/27/2007, 06:33 PM

Jojoyojimbi · 04/27/2007, 06:37 PM

that's bacteria

phil5613 · 04/27/2007, 06:49 PM

I would run a UV and clean that up I keep a 40 watt one on hand just in case

04/26/2007, 06:57 PM	#1
redspot321 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: palm bay fl Posts: 1,711	My nightmare continues. ID desperately needed. UPDATES! Simply put, I am in dire straights! Please help me find a solution to this problem. I will lay this out as simply as possible. I have had this problem for weeks now. -Cloudy water, sps and lps polyps completely clamped shut and closed. - Coral slime accumulating on EVERY type of mechanical filter to the point of complete blockage. -All inverts and fish (shrimp, star, snails, clams, anemone) look wonderful! Things Ive tried.....everything from water changes, to new bulbs, to new ro/di, running HOB, carbon, 100% water changes, removed ALL LR scrubed tank and put tank back together, Maracyn. Please trust me when I say everything is perfect water quality wise! What has worked...... 1. I separated ALL coals. I left ALL sps in the tank and placed all lps in a bucket with LR and water from the tank. -The seperated LPS looked great the next day!! The sps looked bad in the tank....same water same rocks.... Once I placed the LPS back into the display it shrivled up and looked poor. 2. I switched corals in the tank. I removed all SPS into buckets and left the LPS in the display tank. The next day the SPS looked great and the LPS in the display looked bad. Conclusion: The only thing I can think of is that the LR is releasing some sort of toxin. The toxin produced in the display gets sucked into the overflow, mixed with the water, and returned into the full water column causing ALL corals in the tank to close. The toxins released in the buckets accumulates on the surface of the water, NOT in the water column and all corals look great in buckets1 This is so weird, Could this be possible? Same water same rocks, just different container/plumbing. When I came home from work tonight the display was still cloudy after weeks with carbon running, poly filter, and HOB. The water in the buckets was Crystal clear EXCEPT for a thin layer of this whitish, clear substance that was VERY thin with no bubbles. The corals in the buckets looked great. I mannualy skimed the white layer off the top of the bucket water into a glass, shook it up and here it is. Whats going on?????

04/26/2007, 07:15 PM	#3
Paintbug Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoneville, NC Posts: 6,169	has the LR been in another tank before? do you know if it has ever been dosed with copper? __________________ Never ask a girl over to see your crabs!! <-Tony-> Current Tank Info: NONE currently

04/26/2007, 07:26 PM	#6
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Looks like when I tried using vinegar in my kalk in my old 30g reef. Developed such a bacterial bloom that everything was covered in slime, the skimmer went crazy producing foam that wouldn't "pop", and I almost suffocated my fish. Have you been experimenting with any of those methods (sugar, vodka, vinegar)? __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

04/26/2007, 07:32 PM	#7
DarthBaiter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 662	Maybe somethings up with the tank itself? Copper in the silicon... __________________ "Fluke, I'm yo faddah, come join me on the DockSIde!" Current Tank Info: 90g reef display 30g sump, 75g display 10g sump, 30g cube display, 12g AP reef, 14g BC reef, and a 75g planted livebearer tank.

04/26/2007, 09:04 PM	#12
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	what are your water parameters? Slime like that is usually bacterial (as said above already) Also running SPS/LPS or mixing of corals can cause issues like this (chemical warfare) __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

04/26/2007, 07:07 PM	#2
redspot321 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: palm bay fl Posts: 1,711	Heres pics. Same water, same rocks. Display cloudy for weeks, all corals shrivle up in the tank. Bucket Clear as a bell??

04/26/2007, 07:16 PM	#4
Blindmelonbob Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 662	Interesting. This problem just started to develop a few weeks ago? Are you using a skimmer?

04/26/2007, 07:17 PM	#5
stan zemanek Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: new jersey Posts: 524	when all else fails.....OZONE or UV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i had trouble with cloudy water and all kinds of this slime (looked just like snot) on my rocks about 2 years ago, tried everything and nothing helped. so i hooked up a 40 watt uv light and within 6 hours my tank was crystal clear, i spent the next few days blowing off my rock to dislodge the slime and get it to the uv light. since then i have had no rouble with my tank. i would try UV first, its trouble free where as if you go with ozone you really need a controller or ORP meter

04/26/2007, 07:33 PM	#8
kzoo Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 589	Were is your alk at? it almost looks like cal. percipition. If you did a major water change and it didnt help, it has to be in the rocks or tank.

04/26/2007, 07:45 PM	#9
redspot321 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: palm bay fl Posts: 1,711	This reef has been set up for 3 years. Tomorrow I am going to get some new LR from my LFS, it is already cured so it shouldnt be a big deal to the corals. 100% WC with 100% new LR. Yes I know it will be a shock, but everything is in shock now. I have to get it taken care now while the corals are still somewhat healthy. "has the LR been in another tank before? do you know if it has ever been dosed with copper?" -Never, its the same LR in both containers. "This problem just started to develop a few weeks ago? Are you using a skimmer?" -Yes my skimmer is rated for a 125gallon. My reef is a 55. Plus it is mesh moded.

04/26/2007, 08:45 PM	#10
zach0660 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NE Posts: 549	dont do a 100% wc because that will just make the problem worse. If I were you, I would switch all the LR, but do like a 90 or 95 percent wc so that you still have some nutrients and bacteria.

04/26/2007, 08:48 PM	#11
zach0660 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NE Posts: 549	Also before you do the wc, I would go buy a copper test kit and test the water to see if that is really the problem.

04/27/2007, 06:48 AM	#14
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	text book perfect does not mean a thing sorry.... __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

04/27/2007, 11:10 AM	#18
CyanoMagnet Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brooklyn ,NY Posts: 1,272	I dont know if I would keep taking the rock out and in and the 100% changes could be harmfull too. If your fish arent stressed see if you can wait it out. Check water parameters and make sure its not cycling. Im of the opinion that its a bacterial bloom. Heres an idea. use a VERY SMALL (1/8th dosage ?)amount of marine anti bacterial drugs for fish. If you can keep all your corals in a holding tank for a couple of days do it. The treatment shrunk my colt coral in (it became a mangled mess for a couple of months from the drug). I have had some cyano problems in the past and using the marine antibacterial drugs cured it (along with fixing the problem which caused it to begin with.. The skimmer had a shell in the air intake). Make sure you skim VERY HEAVY after treatement.. And see how long you can keep the skimmer off during treatement. If you see any signs of stress go full power and start doing water changes. __________________ Salifert - - - - - - Phosphates ud, ud Nitrates .0xxxppm, Alk 9dkh Calcium 445ppm mag 1380 PH 7.7-8.0 Salinity, 1.026 11/27/2008 Current Tank Info: 72 g bf,15g sump->16g qt,10g refugium w/ DSB and cheato (lots), T5 lighting 6x54watt (2x10k,2xab,blue act,super act),korallin 1501 ca reactor,sulfur denitrator(korallin),bullet 1 skimmer,phosban reactor(running carbon atm),2xtunze1500gph,3xkoralin

04/27/2007, 11:17 AM	#20
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	ya know.... chemiclean (for cyano) may work here. As cyano is bacterial (not sure if it is gram negative or gram positive) You could get lucky and they are both of the same nature. If it does not work , go with Myracyn 2. Sort of a shot in the dark but hey who knows Calcium precipitation is not slimy, it either goes directly to the glass *and that is a nightmare or it falls out of the water column to the floor of the tank __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

04/27/2007, 06:32 PM	#22
redspot321 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: palm bay fl Posts: 1,711	THANKS FOR THE REPLYS!!!! Keep em comming! OK, If your fish arent stressed see if you can wait it out. My stonies and LPS were looking BAD I can always throw the fish into my FO 125, thats not a problem. Its the corals Im worried about. The massive water changes dilute the problem in the Water column. Im of the opinion that its a bacterial bloom. I think so Heres an idea. use a VERY SMALL (1/8th dosage ?)amount of marine anti bacterial drugs for fish. I tried this in combination with lights out for 4 days, no change at all. Are you dosing kalk? With all the water changes I havent dosed anything! just whatever comes out of the bucket. chemiclean (for cyano) may work here It may...Maybe that will be next. go with Myracyn 2. Is that reef safe? UPDATE++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I transfered all corals back into the display and turned off my return pump to prevent the "substance" from being mixed into the water column. so far so good the corals look good and are opening. I have super low flow in the tank to prevent surface agitation and Im begining to see what I think is the problem. On all surfaces or the LR and tank there is what appears to be bubbles attached by clear strings being released int the wc. With the low flow, the bubbles and strings are flating to the top of the water and accumulating on the surface. I believe this to be the source. The question is , What is it? I have 15lbs of fiji LR cooking in the living room. Nitrites are high. Once the nitrites die off Im going to make the switch. Im afraid I am going to contanimate the new LR wirt the old LR rubble that my corals are attached to. I would hate to have to break off every coral from its base to attach it to the LR Do you think Maracyn2 and chemiclean are worth a shot?

04/27/2007, 06:33 PM	#23
redspot321 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: palm bay fl Posts: 1,711

04/27/2007, 06:37 PM	#24
Jojoyojimbi Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Boynton Beach Posts: 597	that's bacteria __________________ My tank was electrocuted when the lights fell in, I'm only keeping Freshwater now Current Tank Info: Electrocuted my saltwater when lights broke, only fresh now

04/27/2007, 06:49 PM	#25
phil5613 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wheaton IL Posts: 428	I would run a UV and clean that up I keep a 40 watt one on hand just in case __________________ Its always this way sometimes Current Tank Info: getting back into the addiction!