acropora in a new system?

mattsilvester · 05/09/2007, 02:56 PM

Is it a bad idea to put acropora frags in a new system?

I know it might be a better idea to get some more hardy corals first, however the tank is to be an sps tank, so there is no place in my "plan" for more hardy specimens.

240 gal tank, cure LR, 2" sugar fine sand, good flow, deltec turbo 1060s.

Cheers,

Matt

frederickk · 05/09/2007, 06:52 PM

How old is the tank?
What are your params at?

jski711 · 05/09/2007, 06:57 PM

well said fred. need more info. also i see you only have 2 250's over an 8' long tank, that is on the really low end of light for that tank size.

everl0ng · 05/09/2007, 07:12 PM

what size tunze streams?

mattsilvester · 05/10/2007, 12:47 AM

tunze's are 6060's. will do full set of water test when in from work today. please note that the MH lamps are directly over each of the "islands" of rock, and the sps will be on top of those rocks, directly beneath the lamps, and in maximum / full flow of tunze and return pumps.

magdelan · 05/10/2007, 12:51 AM

I cannot say this with certainty however, light will diffuse in the many gallons of tank water no matter how dirrectly you have placed the bulbs. Just my opinion and my experience.

boxfishpooalot · 05/10/2007, 02:23 AM

If the tank grows algae or macroalgae, its ready for corals providing nutrients are low. Stock 1 fish for every 3 corals imo.

Frick-n-Frags · 05/10/2007, 04:05 AM

I would try some cheap local frags out for sure.

but frags, not colonies, and tank raised even better

mattsilvester · 05/10/2007, 12:33 PM

Just done tests:

tmperature 78f
ammonia nil
nitrite nil
nitrate 5ppm
ph 8.1
kh/alk 10.2 / 366
Ca 420ppm

boxfishpooalot · 05/10/2007, 04:30 PM

what are phosphates? This is more important than nitrate because it directly inhibits cacification. Everything else looks good.

hilde123 · 05/10/2007, 05:44 PM

If I were you I would wait awhile, the longer you wait the more likely your new corals will survive. I knwo the urge, but waiting all seems to be the best in the long run, unless you got a whole lot of money.

Roy G. Biv · 05/10/2007, 07:06 PM

I think the general rule is 1 halide for every 24" of tank

mattsilvester · 05/11/2007, 01:35 AM

thanks for all the replies everyone,

hilde123 - yes, I might waint a while - would it be better to add a few fish first, and then get the macro algae going in the sump, and wait for the coraline to start taking hold etc?

Phosphate - I don't have a kit, it ran out - I need to get a new one.

Thanks guys,

Matt

boxfishpooalot · 05/11/2007, 01:38 AM

yes, I might waint a while - would it be better to add a few fish first, and then get the macro algae going in the sump, and wait for the coraline to start taking hold etc

No dont add fish first. This the mistake people make all the time.

Think about it..... A fish produces what? Ammonia. What do corals eat? Ammonia. Fish poop, what do corals eat? Poop.

Need I say more?

When macroalgae is growing good, the water will be ready. Providing nutrients are low, especially Po4.

DeepBlueSea · 05/11/2007, 04:21 AM

Place the corals correctly and you'll have plenty of light and a very diversified live stock collection...

mattsilvester · 05/11/2007, 04:48 AM

boxfishpoopalot,

Thanks for the input - but I'm not 100% with you :-) (unsure what you mean).

Fish poop=coral food - So why is it bad to have fish in first? APart from the obvious polution aspects etc., however that is an ongoing problem anyway. My logic was that if I were to introduce a few few fish and inverts and give the system another 6 weeks or so to "mature" then it would inherently be more stable etc? Is this not so?

Thanks

Matt

mattsilvester · 05/11/2007, 04:56 AM

A question worth asking also - are there more hardy branching sps that I could consider instead of acropora? It just seems every tank that I like is littered with acropora branching corals, hence my preference for them...... but if there are others......

boxfishpooalot · 05/11/2007, 05:09 AM

Fish poop=coral food - So why is it bad to have fish in first? APart from the obvious polution aspects etc., however that is an ongoing problem anyway. My logic was that if I were to introduce a few few fish and inverts and give the system another 6 weeks or so to "mature" then it would inherently be more stable etc? Is this not so?

Ammonia is much more toxic to fish than to corals. The zoox consume it, wich is an algae. Reason not to add corals before adding macroalgae growth is to let macroalgae absorb heavy metals. Like copper, iron ect. And phosphate and nitrate. Along with ammonia ect. Fish produce ammonia faster than bacteria can grow to keep it low enough for most species. Macro under intense light will keep it at bay.

Puting a fish in first is nonsense. The organics from algae die off will kick start the ammonia cycle. Not to mention the fact that algae/macro can out compete bacteria for ammonia in the first place. And you have a visual clue as to ammonia being removed by the macoalgae growing.

mattsilvester · 05/11/2007, 06:22 AM

boxfishpooalot

Thanks - I see what you mean now :-) Makes alot of sense!

Cheers,
Matt

05/09/2007, 02:56 PM	#1
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	acropora in a new system? Is it a bad idea to put acropora frags in a new system? I know it might be a better idea to get some more hardy corals first, however the tank is to be an sps tank, so there is no place in my "plan" for more hardy specimens. 240 gal tank, cure LR, 2" sugar fine sand, good flow, deltec turbo 1060s. Cheers, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/09/2007, 07:12 PM	#4
everl0ng Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lima, OH Posts: 782	what size tunze streams? __________________ Nick Kohrn Current Tank Info: Mixed NC24

05/10/2007, 12:47 AM	#5
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	tunze's are 6060's. will do full set of water test when in from work today. please note that the MH lamps are directly over each of the "islands" of rock, and the sps will be on top of those rocks, directly beneath the lamps, and in maximum / full flow of tunze and return pumps. __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/10/2007, 12:51 AM	#6
magdelan Fish? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Gananda, NY Posts: 3,785	I cannot say this with certainty however, light will diffuse in the many gallons of tank water no matter how dirrectly you have placed the bulbs. Just my opinion and my experience. __________________ "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent, used to build monuments of nothingness. Those who specialize in them, are seldom capable of anything else."

05/10/2007, 02:23 AM	#7
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	If the tank grows algae or macroalgae, its ready for corals providing nutrients are low. Stock 1 fish for every 3 corals imo. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/09/2007, 06:52 PM	#2
frederickk Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,712	How old is the tank? What are your params at?

05/09/2007, 06:57 PM	#3
jski711 Moved On Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington Heights Posts: 1,781	well said fred. need more info. also i see you only have 2 250's over an 8' long tank, that is on the really low end of light for that tank size.

05/10/2007, 04:05 AM	#8
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	I would try some cheap local frags out for sure. but frags, not colonies, and tank raised even better __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

05/10/2007, 12:33 PM	#9
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	Just done tests: tmperature 78f ammonia nil nitrite nil nitrate 5ppm ph 8.1 kh/alk 10.2 / 366 Ca 420ppm __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/10/2007, 04:30 PM	#10
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	what are phosphates? This is more important than nitrate because it directly inhibits cacification. Everything else looks good. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/10/2007, 05:44 PM	#11
hilde123 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 625	If I were you I would wait awhile, the longer you wait the more likely your new corals will survive. I knwo the urge, but waiting all seems to be the best in the long run, unless you got a whole lot of money.

05/10/2007, 07:06 PM	#12
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	I think the general rule is 1 halide for every 24" of tank

05/11/2007, 01:35 AM	#13
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	thanks for all the replies everyone, hilde123 - yes, I might waint a while - would it be better to add a few fish first, and then get the macro algae going in the sump, and wait for the coraline to start taking hold etc? Phosphate - I don't have a kit, it ran out - I need to get a new one. Thanks guys, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/11/2007, 01:38 AM	#14
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	yes, I might waint a while - would it be better to add a few fish first, and then get the macro algae going in the sump, and wait for the coraline to start taking hold etc No dont add fish first. This the mistake people make all the time. Think about it..... A fish produces what? Ammonia. What do corals eat? Ammonia. Fish poop, what do corals eat? Poop. Need I say more? When macroalgae is growing good, the water will be ready. Providing nutrients are low, especially Po4. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/11/2007, 04:21 AM	#15
DeepBlueSea Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Gillette, NJ Posts: 217	Place the corals correctly and you'll have plenty of light and a very diversified live stock collection...

05/11/2007, 04:48 AM	#16
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	boxfishpoopalot, Thanks for the input - but I'm not 100% with you :-) (unsure what you mean). Fish poop=coral food - So why is it bad to have fish in first? APart from the obvious polution aspects etc., however that is an ongoing problem anyway. My logic was that if I were to introduce a few few fish and inverts and give the system another 6 weeks or so to "mature" then it would inherently be more stable etc? Is this not so? Thanks Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/11/2007, 04:56 AM	#17
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	A question worth asking also - are there more hardy branching sps that I could consider instead of acropora? It just seems every tank that I like is littered with acropora branching corals, hence my preference for them...... but if there are others...... __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130

05/11/2007, 05:09 AM	#18
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	Fish poop=coral food - So why is it bad to have fish in first? APart from the obvious polution aspects etc., however that is an ongoing problem anyway. My logic was that if I were to introduce a few few fish and inverts and give the system another 6 weeks or so to "mature" then it would inherently be more stable etc? Is this not so? Ammonia is much more toxic to fish than to corals. The zoox consume it, wich is an algae. Reason not to add corals before adding macroalgae growth is to let macroalgae absorb heavy metals. Like copper, iron ect. And phosphate and nitrate. Along with ammonia ect. Fish produce ammonia faster than bacteria can grow to keep it low enough for most species. Macro under intense light will keep it at bay. Puting a fish in first is nonsense. The organics from algae die off will kick start the ammonia cycle. Not to mention the fact that algae/macro can out compete bacteria for ammonia in the first place. And you have a visual clue as to ammonia being removed by the macoalgae growing. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/11/2007, 06:22 AM	#19
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	boxfishpooalot Thanks - I see what you mean now :-) Makes alot of sense! Cheers, Matt __________________ Regards, Matt "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." "Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit" - no man is at all times wise. "To a hammer, everything is a nail!" Current Tank Info: RSM 130