20K Radium, Ushio, XM

[FSOL]

What are your guys' opinions of these bulbs? I am currently using Radium and I'm not too impressed. It's not blue at all, more like pale white.
If I wanted more blue/actinic type of tint, what would you recommend?

[bond007069]

actinics

[FSOL]

Got them. Even w/ my actinics on, the overall shade is white, and not the 20K blue I see in some of the pictures online.

If I turn my actinics off, the color is dull white, even a bit yellowish. This isn't expected of a 20K bulb.

[hahnmeister]

What ballast/wattage bulb are you running for the Radium? You know that Radium "400's" are really only rated for 360 watts. http://www.radium.de/e/produkte_over...1855,2498,2569

They are not 400 watt halides, which is why they have a notoriously short life span. The best results (and bluest) have been to use Icecap ballasts, but even they are overdriving the bulb some.

If you want an almost identical look to the Radium (er, rather, what its supposed to be), but the highest output and a true HQI 400watt SE bulb... get the Aquaconnect 14,000K...
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/cat...Path=28_35_296
It is the HIGHEST output 400watt bulb, considering its one of the few that is rated to work on a HQI ballast (In fact, I wouldnt suggest it unless you have HQI ballasts), and it is very blue.

[NYReef]

I use a 250 watt SE Aquaconnect 14K and I love it because its very white high PAR (83) and has a slight blue tint to it. If you want a seriously blue bulb the the Phoenix 14K's are for you, especially the HQI DE version, bluest MH bulb I've ever seen.

[FSOL]

I am running 400W 20K Radium on Hamilton ballasts. I purchased IceCap ballasts yesterday and tried on IceCap, and no difference. It was still yellowish. W/ my actinics off, the 20K looked like a 14K bulb. There's nothing bluish about it.

I have brand new Ushio 20Ks at home that I will try for a week to see if they are any bluer, but I highly doubt it'll be a big difference.

So since the 400W radiums are really 360W, would that explain why they developed dark spots on the bulbs two months into usage?

[FSOL]

NYREEF - I've never used aquaconnects. Maybe I'll try those next. Expensive bulbs though. $140 for one 14K bulb. Do they make these in 20K?
I've had phoenix 14Ks before but that was when I had 250W bulbs (still, great color).
I just want to get the deep fluorescent colors out of my corals to show up, hence I'm aiming for the blue 20K look.

[hahnmeister]

The K rating is pure marketing, the Aquaconnect is actually bluer and more purple...

The main thing is that the Aquaconnect will last you a good year, the Radium will not. That $130 per bulb is right on the money for a HQI rated 400 watter. Your other option is the Giesemann... or maybe the Ushios, but thats about it for 400wattHQI bulbs.

[NYReef]

They are expensive, but for one bulb a year, mine are $115 for the 250 watt, it is worth it. I haven't seen a 20K Aquaconnect, but as hahnmeister points out the 14K is a misnomer and just marketing as the 14K is as blue as the 20K Radium, and almost as blue as the 20K Helios, both of which I have used. I actually prefer a lot of blue but the 14K Aquaconnect didn't disappoint me as it has pleny of blue and the corals grow like crazy with them, they are very bright.

[FSOL]

wow, a 14K w/ a higher spike than the 20K radium. Man, nothing in this hobby is an exact science is it

Well I guess you guys have sold me on trying the Aquaconnects. I think that'll be my next bulb replacement order. $140 per bulb for a whole year, and a bulb that supposedly says 400 and gives 400 isn't bad I guess.

[NYReef]

As someone that like the blue and has been through many, don't tell my wife, bulbs, I am very happy with the Aquaconnect 14K, it is the best of both worlds for growth and looks.

[FSOL]

By the way, do you have any pics of your lights?

[hahnmeister]

Oh, just want to check though... what kind of 400watt ballasts are you using? For the Aquaconnects, you want, no, need HQI. I wouldnt even consider e-ballasts to be enough (enough to start, but they will be severely underdriven).

[TandN]

hey hahn Im using PFO 400w ballast and having the same issue with my radiums looking for a more bluer bulb any suggestions ?

[FSOL]

I'm using hamilton HQIs

[Lo0seR]

I have Helios 20k's that are 400 watt that are HQI. They are a little more blue than my old Radiums and love the fact that they are cheap compared to Radiums. I owned an Aquaconnect 400watt and did like it but at that price, and the price of SoCal power prices something had to give, still have the tank

[TandN]

does the AC actually good up to a year ?

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by FSOL
I'm using hamilton HQIs

Good deal, that explains why your radiums are running so bright/white as well. 400watt HQIs run the bulbs at about 450 watts (sometimes as high as 500watts!), so your Radiums are being overdriven by about 100watts. Most people I know that stick with the Radiums use them on Icecap or Blueline e-ballasts to lower the wattage closer to spec and keep them blue longer. Aquaconnects 14,000Ks, Aqualine 10,000Ks, Ushio/BLV nepturion (non cwa models) in 10,000K, 14,000K, and 20,000K, and the Giesemann bulbs are the only true HQI 400s out there... so the Aquaconnects (or one of these few others) is the bulb you should have been using all along, er rather, the bulbs your ballast was made for. Regular 400watt probe start ballasts and bulbs are what most others are. The bulbs dont last nearly as long, or burn as bright (250wattDE bulbs compete with them because they are HQI and run anywhere from 270-350 watts! The 250wattSE Radium is a HQI 250).

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by tanya72806
hey hahn Im using PFO 400w ballast and having the same issue with my radiums looking for a more bluer bulb any suggestions ?

Well, are they HQI ballasts (M135/128/155), or probe-start (M59)?

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by Lo0seR
I have Helios 20k's that are 400 watt that are HQI. They are a little more blue than my old Radiums and love the fact that they are cheap compared to Radiums. I owned an Aquaconnect 400watt and did like it but at that price, and the price of SoCal power prices something had to give, still have the tank

Sorry to break it to you, but the Helios are not HQI bulbs... they are regular probe start/US spec bulbs designed to run on regular ole' M159 ballasts. Sometimes dealers loosely term all of their bulbs as HQI, when in fact most are not... they are all HID, but this simply means high intensity discharge... thats all.

My concern is that you are running probe start bulbs on HQI ballasts though... this will dramatically decrease their output over time as well as their lifespan. Probe start bulbs are best run on e-ballasts, even over M159 ballasts... so they last longer. You may not like the price of 400watt HQI bulbs like the G-mans and the Aquaconnects, but they do end up cheaper in the long run. The replacement time on a probe-start, higher pressure, HQI rated bulb is about 2x that of a lower pressure, lower quality, probe-start combo... and a probe start bulb on a HQI ballast... thats really shortening the lifespan. Sure, you might start out brighter, but its like running a car on jet fuel... after 9-12 months, that Helios prolly only has 40% of its output left, where the Aquaconnect prolly has 85%+ as is common with HQI bulb/ballast combos.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by tanya72806
does the AC actually good up to a year ?

I shouldnt say it like that... but yes. You can run any bulb after a year, right? Its just a matter of how much light is still being made...lol. Many HQI bulbs retain about 85% of their output after a year. Many of the better 10,000K HQIs are good for two years... but the bluer bulbs, not quite as much. Still, they last much longer than probe start bulbs, so their extra cost is easily offset by their longer life, greater output/efficiency over that life, etc. My personal rating for a Aquaconnect 14,000K is one year, as Im okay with a 15% loss (heck, Im okay with a 30% loss almost). So time ratings are really useless without a percentage to go with the time. There are those that freak out when they lose 8% of their bulbs output (Iwan lasser replacing T5 bulbs every 6 months that still have plenty of life if he only accepted slightly less percentages...lol), and there are those that will run a bulb into the ground before replacing it.

[hahnmeister]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

I consider 400 watt bulbs to be the most confusing, messed-up light systems to have to deal with. You have DE bulbs which arent really HQI (true HQI 400s were and still are SE like the probe starts because there was never a DE format adopted like with 250watters until recent years). The 400wattDE bulbs are a marketing scam, and worse bulbs than many probe start 400s.

Add to this the fact that US HQI ballasts arent really HQI technically (250 and 150s are though, so no worries there), but actually MV ballasts that are 'close enough'. Its just a mess.

Thats why I stick with 250wattDE bulbs, which can light up to a 3' tall tank anyways, and 250s and such dont have nearly as much confusion. If its DE, its HQI. If its SE, its most likely probe-start, but there are a couple exceptions (Ushio, Radium, etc)... but at least if you go DE w/ HQI ballasts, you cant go wrong. With 400s, its just a freakin' mess. Yeah, I like the blue look, and Aquaconnects are the highest output HQI out there, but watt for watt... a 250wattDE with a 10,000K bulb is enough. Combine a few blue+ T5s with those halides, and you have just as much if not more output and blue than a Aquaconnect.

[foshizzle]

Hahn,
I assume you run the 250DE bulbs only on HQI ballasts?

Beyond the phoenix any 250w bulb with a lot of blue and high PAR you would recommend?

[hahnmeister]

Yes, 250wattDE only on HQI, thats what they are made for.

The pheonix is the king for blue and high PAR. It does appear to 'wash out' colors though, so I went with the EVC 20,000K... very similar in output, but more purple/actinic, but about 20% duller. The pheonix 250wattDE has more output than the Ushio 10,000K though... thats pretty 'wow' considering how blue it is. It does it at the expense of any actinic output though... Loads of blue, but less actinic than anything (read: none!).

The new Iwasaki 14,000K is interesting, and may be the new king if it follows Iwasaki's prior success of the 175watt 15,000K.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...90#post9943290

Sanjay is quickly testing onw right now.

Seriously though, for may of you looking for bluer bulbs, I would strongly urge you to consider a more 10,000Kish bulb for your halides, even a ushio 14,000K, and then suppliment with a few rows of blue+ T5 bulbs. The blue bulbs have a huge impact. My personal favorite ratio is a 250watt 10,000K/14,000Kish bulb for every 54watts of T5 actinic and every 54watts of T5 blue+... the end result is very 'day-blue', unlike anything a halide alone can get because there is still a full spectrum of daylight there, its just got loads of blue to go with thanks to the T5s. I have never seen corals grow faster, or with more color than with this combo.

[FSOL]

HAHN - my ballast says Pulse Start Ansi M135 on it. So given this, you are recommending that I run anything but the radiums? So go w/ aquaconnect 14K or even ushio/xm 20K? Would these bulbs light close to 400W ?