Nitrate up the roof

Stealth70mde · 05/27/2007, 09:52 PM

Hello,

All my water parameters are ok or almost except my Nitrate that is reading 80 mg/L...

I am careful not to overfeed and not let any waste accumulate in the tank.

Water params are as followed:
Temp: 79.9
Salt: 1.025
pH: 8.3
Amonia: 0
Nitrite: 0.1
Kh: 105
Phosphate: 0.25
Calcium: 560 (high becacause just added Calcium 30 minutes before test. Usualy reads 460)

I have the Seachem Purigen in my filter and it helped a bit. Now I am regenerating it tonight.
I also do 25% water change bi-monthly.

I also have a Coralife RO/DI unit for 6 months now...

Thanks for your suggestions,

Marc.

kingfisher62 · 05/27/2007, 09:58 PM

I would do 25 percent water changes every 3 days till it comes down and make sure you clean out your Fluval weekly they can be nitrate factories if not cleaned regularly!

Stealth70mde · 05/27/2007, 10:02 PM

Thanks,

Yeah, the Fluval is not helping here, I'm sure...
Will do more frequent water changes.

Can't wait for the next upgrade (bigger tank and refugium)...

Marc.

kingfisher62 · 05/27/2007, 10:21 PM

I still have my fluval had it for five years .Last year I was having the same prob with my trates.
I sarted removing the ceramic rings and lava rock gradually now I just use the sponges and some filter floss in the bottom cartridge and change weekly.
Also test your source water ,let it set a few day first ,then test .
If your source water is high in trates all the water changes will be a waste of time.

A 25percent water change with water at 0 nitrates will lower your water from 80 to 60ppm.Another 25 percent will lower from 60 to 45ppm . In theory anyway. just keep it going but you still have to figure out where those nitrates are coming from! A couple of wads af chaeto in your tank might help too.

salty3 · 05/27/2007, 10:34 PM

The canister probably is'nt helping, but I would take a sample of water to your LFS and have them test it just to make sure yours is right.

Stealth70mde · 05/27/2007, 11:55 PM

Again, thanks guys.

Will do this LFS test and remove and/or change the ceramic rings gradually to see the effect it has.

Marc.

funman1 · 05/28/2007, 12:58 AM

Dude your Phos is INSANE!!
Get a reactor on that ASAP!
Coral growth is majorly stunted if not killing them.
I start up and run my phosban reactor at 0.015

Here is how I cured my Nitrate problems.
Been measuring 0 ever since.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=fuge

kingfisher62 · 05/28/2007, 07:52 AM

Yes , a refugium is the way to go if you have the means!

GMAX · 05/28/2007, 08:48 AM

You have nitrite? Must be a reason. How much live rock in the tank? Your bacteria should take care of ammonia and nitrite. Then the trate can be exported ( converted to Nitrogen gas ) by either macro algae or a remote DSB.

And phosphates can be dealt with effectively using macro too.

Figure out why a fairly mature tank is reading anything besides ZERO on nitrite. There is an issue.

Stealth70mde · 05/28/2007, 09:08 AM

Yes, the fuge is something I want to setup sooner than later as it really seems to control what I obviously have difficulty to do.

The Nitrites have never read 0 in a little more than 1.5 years... Always at 0.1 or a little less (there is always color from the test kit when I test my water).

As for the phosphates, this one also, I can't seems to get lower than the first reading of my kit (0.25).

Corals, hard and soft don't struggle except one Galaxea that has not looked better than since I bought it at the LFS.

Thanks guys and thanks for the link funman1.

Marc.

shred5 · 05/28/2007, 09:34 AM

How many fish do you have? Just because you are not overfeeding you may just have too many fish.

Fluval should not be used for mechanical filtration unless you clean it twice a week esp with your problems. . Putting carbon or phosphate removers in is ok. If you use it for biological filtration well that is probably a huge source of your nitrate problems.

Also your skimmer is undersized for that tank. The key to stopping nitrates is removing what is in the water before it has a chance to break down to nitrates.

Also test your make up water and water you do water changes with for nitrates. I know you use r/o but some r/o systems can let enough through. Wont help to do water changes if you are just adding more nitrate.

I agree with he person who said your phosphates are high too.. The fact both phosphates and nitrates are high means it is either your tap water or stuff is not being removed before breaking down or you just have too much load.. I think it is time to invest in a good skimmer.

Dave

Stealth70mde · 05/28/2007, 09:51 AM

Hi,

Here are the fishes I have:

4 Firefish
2 False percs
1 Emperator Angel (4")
1 Sleeper Banded Goby
1 Springer's Dottyback

They are all quite small except the Angel which is still young.

If the fuge is not an option right at this moment, what could do the job if the Fluval is not helping here? Yes I use it for Bio filtration.

The skimmer is far from the best but it has been removing about 2 containers of somewhat dense crap every week.

I will get my RO/DI water tested.

When I bought that RO/DI unit it helped but the levels never came down completely.

Thanks,

Marc.

GMAX · 05/28/2007, 10:00 AM

When did you last change the filters? Sediment and carbon filters are exhausted at about six months and the DI unit filters last about one year.

Can you add a remote deep sandbed? It will eliminate the Nitrates but you still need to get rid of PO4

shred5 · 05/28/2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stealth70mde
Hi,

Here are the fishes I have:

4 Firefish
2 False percs
1 Emperator Angel (4")
1 Sleeper Banded Goby
1 Springer's Dottyback

They are all quite small except the Angel which is still young.

If the fuge is not an option right at this moment, what could do the job if the Fluval is not helping here? Yes I use it for Bio filtration.

The skimmer is far from the best but it has been removing about 2 containers of somewhat dense crap every week.

I will get my RO/DI water tested.

When I bought that RO/DI unit it helped but the levels never came down completely.

Thanks,

Marc.

That is a pretty good fish load esp with that size skimmer. If it pulls 2 loads a good skimmer might pull twice that.

First thing I would do though is ditch the bioballs and test your make up water. With quality water do some water changes everyday to bring the nitrates down. Once you have it down go from there. If it rises again you may have to look at a bigger skimmer or even reducing the fish load.

Dave

Stealth70mde · 05/28/2007, 10:08 AM

Ok, thanks.

So I ditch the Ceramic rings and replace them with what? Nothing? Where will the bacterias live? The Live rocks will be enough?

And then again, what is a good skimmer?

Marc.

shred5 · 05/28/2007, 10:11 AM

The live rock should be able to handle it if you have enough. Like I said the key is removing it before it has a chance to break down. Also when doing those water changes make sure you remove any detritus that is in the tank. Do you have an algae problem and is this a reef tank or fish only system?

You also have nitrite which means to me your system is just not keeping up with the load and actually now that i see you have nitrite you may be better off leaving the bio balls in for now because your nitrite may go up and that is even worse than nitrate.

honestly I think your load is too high.

Dave

deansreef · 05/28/2007, 10:20 AM

wow, that is too many fish for a 50 gallon, at least remove the angel and a couple of other fish.

Good luck,

Dean

05/27/2007, 09:52 PM	#1
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Nitrate up the roof Hello, All my water parameters are ok or almost except my Nitrate that is reading 80 mg/L... I am careful not to overfeed and not let any waste accumulate in the tank. Water params are as followed: Temp: 79.9 Salt: 1.025 pH: 8.3 Amonia: 0 Nitrite: 0.1 Kh: 105 Phosphate: 0.25 Calcium: 560 (high becacause just added Calcium 30 minutes before test. Usualy reads 460) I have the Seachem Purigen in my filter and it helped a bit. Now I am regenerating it tonight. I also do 25% water change bi-monthly. I also have a Coralife RO/DI unit for 6 months now... Thanks for your suggestions, Marc.

05/27/2007, 09:58 PM	#2
kingfisher62 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: massachusetts Posts: 4,972	I would do 25 percent water changes every 3 days till it comes down and make sure you clean out your Fluval weekly they can be nitrate factories if not cleaned regularly! __________________ 55g Tank - 216W T5's Foxface, tomato clown, yellow tailed damsel, Starrie Blennie, LPS and softies 29G Biocube- 120W LED's 2 percular clown, Six line Wrasse , LPS and softies Current Tank Info: 55 gl. Reef tank ,29g biocube Reef

05/27/2007, 10:21 PM	#4
kingfisher62 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: massachusetts Posts: 4,972	I still have my fluval had it for five years .Last year I was having the same prob with my trates. I sarted removing the ceramic rings and lava rock gradually now I just use the sponges and some filter floss in the bottom cartridge and change weekly. Also test your source water ,let it set a few day first ,then test . If your source water is high in trates all the water changes will be a waste of time. A 25percent water change with water at 0 nitrates will lower your water from 80 to 60ppm.Another 25 percent will lower from 60 to 45ppm . In theory anyway. just keep it going but you still have to figure out where those nitrates are coming from! A couple of wads af chaeto in your tank might help too. __________________ 55g Tank - 216W T5's Foxface, tomato clown, yellow tailed damsel, Starrie Blennie, LPS and softies 29G Biocube- 120W LED's 2 percular clown, Six line Wrasse , LPS and softies Current Tank Info: 55 gl. Reef tank ,29g biocube Reef

05/28/2007, 12:58 AM	#7
funman1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 4,898	Dude your Phos is INSANE!! Get a reactor on that ASAP! Coral growth is majorly stunted if not killing them. I start up and run my phosban reactor at 0.015 Here is how I cured my Nitrate problems. Been measuring 0 ever since. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=fuge __________________ Professional Pyro: NO REALLY; I get PAID to blow stuff up!! ~Steve~ Current Tank Info: 12G NANO

05/28/2007, 07:52 AM	#8
kingfisher62 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: massachusetts Posts: 4,972	Yes , a refugium is the way to go if you have the means! __________________ 55g Tank - 216W T5's Foxface, tomato clown, yellow tailed damsel, Starrie Blennie, LPS and softies 29G Biocube- 120W LED's 2 percular clown, Six line Wrasse , LPS and softies Current Tank Info: 55 gl. Reef tank ,29g biocube Reef

05/27/2007, 10:02 PM	#3
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Thanks, Yeah, the Fluval is not helping here, I'm sure... Will do more frequent water changes. Can't wait for the next upgrade (bigger tank and refugium)... Marc.

05/27/2007, 10:34 PM	#5
salty3 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Right here Posts: 894	The canister probably is'nt helping, but I would take a sample of water to your LFS and have them test it just to make sure yours is right.

05/27/2007, 11:55 PM	#6
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Again, thanks guys. Will do this LFS test and remove and/or change the ceramic rings gradually to see the effect it has. Marc.

05/28/2007, 08:48 AM	#9
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	You have nitrite? Must be a reason. How much live rock in the tank? Your bacteria should take care of ammonia and nitrite. Then the trate can be exported ( converted to Nitrogen gas ) by either macro algae or a remote DSB. And phosphates can be dealt with effectively using macro too. Figure out why a fairly mature tank is reading anything besides ZERO on nitrite. There is an issue.

05/28/2007, 09:08 AM	#10
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Yes, the fuge is something I want to setup sooner than later as it really seems to control what I obviously have difficulty to do. The Nitrites have never read 0 in a little more than 1.5 years... Always at 0.1 or a little less (there is always color from the test kit when I test my water). As for the phosphates, this one also, I can't seems to get lower than the first reading of my kit (0.25). Corals, hard and soft don't struggle except one Galaxea that has not looked better than since I bought it at the LFS. Thanks guys and thanks for the link funman1. Marc.

05/28/2007, 09:34 AM	#11
shred5 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Waukesha , WI Posts: 4,998	How many fish do you have? Just because you are not overfeeding you may just have too many fish. Fluval should not be used for mechanical filtration unless you clean it twice a week esp with your problems. . Putting carbon or phosphate removers in is ok. If you use it for biological filtration well that is probably a huge source of your nitrate problems. Also your skimmer is undersized for that tank. The key to stopping nitrates is removing what is in the water before it has a chance to break down to nitrates. Also test your make up water and water you do water changes with for nitrates. I know you use r/o but some r/o systems can let enough through. Wont help to do water changes if you are just adding more nitrate. I agree with he person who said your phosphates are high too.. The fact both phosphates and nitrates are high means it is either your tap water or stuff is not being removed before breaking down or you just have too much load.. I think it is time to invest in a good skimmer. Dave

05/28/2007, 09:51 AM	#12
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Hi, Here are the fishes I have: 4 Firefish 2 False percs 1 Emperator Angel (4") 1 Sleeper Banded Goby 1 Springer's Dottyback They are all quite small except the Angel which is still young. If the fuge is not an option right at this moment, what could do the job if the Fluval is not helping here? Yes I use it for Bio filtration. The skimmer is far from the best but it has been removing about 2 containers of somewhat dense crap every week. I will get my RO/DI water tested. When I bought that RO/DI unit it helped but the levels never came down completely. Thanks, Marc.

05/28/2007, 10:00 AM	#13
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	When did you last change the filters? Sediment and carbon filters are exhausted at about six months and the DI unit filters last about one year. Can you add a remote deep sandbed? It will eliminate the Nitrates but you still need to get rid of PO4

05/28/2007, 10:08 AM	#15
Stealth70mde Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 65	Ok, thanks. So I ditch the Ceramic rings and replace them with what? Nothing? Where will the bacterias live? The Live rocks will be enough? And then again, what is a good skimmer? Marc.

05/28/2007, 10:11 AM	#16
shred5 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Waukesha , WI Posts: 4,998	The live rock should be able to handle it if you have enough. Like I said the key is removing it before it has a chance to break down. Also when doing those water changes make sure you remove any detritus that is in the tank. Do you have an algae problem and is this a reef tank or fish only system? You also have nitrite which means to me your system is just not keeping up with the load and actually now that i see you have nitrite you may be better off leaving the bio balls in for now because your nitrite may go up and that is even worse than nitrate. honestly I think your load is too high. Dave Last edited by shred5; 05/28/2007 at 10:24 AM.

05/28/2007, 10:20 AM	#17
deansreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: north carolina Posts: 3,234	wow, that is too many fish for a 50 gallon, at least remove the angel and a couple of other fish. Good luck, Dean __________________ the only dumb question, is the one not asked... Current Tank Info: 225 gallon peninsula