problem with mircobubbles...

igotthatFIREman · 06/17/2007, 04:40 PM

when my skimmer is on, im getting a problem with microbubbles. will adding another baffle before the pump make a difference? i run a mag 9.5 return with 3/4" hard pluming open all the way.. ill post a picture of my sump...

igotthatFIREman · 06/17/2007, 04:52 PM

RobSW1 · 06/17/2007, 06:13 PM

I think raising the water level in the last resovior will help, and moving the pump over farther away from the baffles will help. If all else fails, then yes adding another baffle will help, but if you do all three of these you will notice more significant changes.

HTH
Rob

Hop · 06/17/2007, 06:18 PM

On the right is that the return pump? If so, the t goes right back to where the intake is and it's above water. this in and of itself will cause bubbles and your sucking it right into the pump. that is the first thing I would change.

sjm817 · 06/17/2007, 06:29 PM

You would be better off with just a single baffle. The O-U is sending the bubbles down low where they are sucked into the pump. Keep the bubbles on the surface and draw water to the pump from down low. And yes, that T is a problem. Why are you doing that?

igotthatFIREman · 06/17/2007, 09:13 PM

no water goes through the T. the t is there because the ball valve is not on the direct line of the return so if i do decide to lower the amount of water going to the DT i can just open the ball valve that is off to the side on the T and it doesnt restrict the pump at all. its not creating bubbles though because it is not open at the moment.

im wondering if i had 1"plumbing for the return pipe would that help at all? i think that is the only restriction that i have on the pump

sjm817 · 06/18/2007, 05:30 AM

The 3/4" plumbing on the Mag9 is a huge flow restriction. You aren't getting anywhere near full flow. To do so, you would need 1.5" (its in the instructions). Moving up to 1" plumbing will increase the flow and most likely make the problem worse.

igotthatFIREman · 06/18/2007, 09:41 AM

should i just leave it at 3/4" then?

igotthatFIREman · 06/18/2007, 01:41 PM

so can anyone recomend what i should do? should i add another baffle to help remove the micro bubbles? and should i switch the plumbing to 1"???

please help

klam114 · 06/18/2007, 03:56 PM

Adding a filter sock will absorb a lot of the bubbles.

sjm817 · 06/18/2007, 04:48 PM

Leave the plumbing @ 3/4". Adding more flow will make the problem worse. I would get rid of the 2nd baffle, put a filter sock on the drain. move the return farther to the right. Keep the bubbles and the return as far apart as possible, keep the bubbles on the surface of the sump.

igotthatFIREman · 06/18/2007, 10:00 PM

why would removing the last baffle help? i dont think that is creating bubbles. the bubbles are coming from the skimmer. i have a filter sock on the plumbing to the sump...

wouldnt adding another baffle before the pump help? or is there an easier way....

i will start by moving the pump farther away but i dont think it wil help since i am still making tons of bubbles with my skimmer

sjm817 · 06/18/2007, 10:03 PM

The last baffle is sending the bubbles down low into the return section. If you just had the single baffle, the bubbles would stay on top of the water as long as there was only a very slight drop to the return section.

fishyface · 06/18/2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by klam114
Adding a filter sock will absorb a lot of the bubbles.

i also just figured this one out, it was simple yet made a huge difference. finally have crystal clear water!!

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 09:01 AM

why do people hav so many baffles if then? all the sumps/fuges that people buy all have around 6 baffles or so.........maybe adding a filter sock to the output of the skimmer would help since i already have one on the drain?

sjm817 · 06/19/2007, 10:14 AM

Good question. I've made 3 sumps with this type of trap and they just dont work. I'm not alone in that conclusion either. If you have the drain and skimmer outputs going through filter socks (100 micron are good), you wont have a problem.

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 01:03 PM

so your saying that the bubbles would just stay at the top if i was to remove the last baffle in my sump? if i added the another baffle wouldnt it pretty much do the same thing as 1 baffle? i would think that 3 baffles would still keep the bubbles to the top because the water would have to go over the third baffle.

correct me if im wrong. i appreciate all your advice and i just want to get my sump to work as good as it can. thanks

sjm817 · 06/19/2007, 01:27 PM

Yes, the 3rd baffle would also keep the bubbles on top but...you now moved the bubbles closer to the return pump than with a single baffle. That space is better utilized by a bigger fuge or return section.

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 01:40 PM

well i cant really make the fuge bigger but it works good how it is. i just dontthink that moving the pump further would really make that much of a difference but i may try removing the baffle if u think that will really help

sjm817 · 06/19/2007, 02:08 PM

Are bubbles making it under that 2nd baffle now? What is the source of the bubbles? Drain? Skimmer? Both?

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 04:37 PM

both but im going to be able to solve the drain on my own but putting the plubing under water because when it splashes down in the filter sock it is making bubbles. im going to try and see if adding a filter sock to the skimmer helps too.

but im still not sure what to do with the baffles.... and yes bubbles are coming under the second baffle right into the pump...

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 04:40 PM

i can put water in the sump so it goes over the last baffle and if that makes no bubbles then maybe i should just remove the baffle because if what your saying is true about not needing baffles then this will prove it...right?

sjm817 · 06/19/2007, 05:36 PM

Well, if the O-U baffle isn't stopping the bubbles from passing through (I'm not surprised), adding a 3rd baffle wont do anything to remove the bubbles that are there from the first two. It will just waste space.

Remove baffle #2, and have the water level in the return just a bit lower than the baffle height. This should help to keep the bubbles on the surface. Keep the return pump all the way over to the right.

igotthatFIREman · 06/19/2007, 07:55 PM

to test this out wouldnt i be able to run the water level in the sump higher then the last baffle right now? ....jsut to test it out. it would be like i dont have a baffle there because the water would flow at the top...right?

my baffles are only 6.5"

Sk8r · 06/19/2007, 07:57 PM

Pipe your skimmer effluent back to the entry chamber, and put a big wad of cheato in the path of the flow.

06/17/2007, 04:40 PM	#1
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	problem with mircobubbles... when my skimmer is on, im getting a problem with microbubbles. will adding another baffle before the pump make a difference? i run a mag 9.5 return with 3/4" hard pluming open all the way.. ill post a picture of my sump...

06/17/2007, 06:18 PM	#4
Hop Carpe Noctem!!! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 8,548	On the right is that the return pump? If so, the t goes right back to where the intake is and it's above water. this in and of itself will cause bubbles and your sucking it right into the pump. that is the first thing I would change. __________________ Hop Current Tank Info: 300-gallon in-wall system (mixed reef)

06/17/2007, 06:29 PM	#5
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	You would be better off with just a single baffle. The O-U is sending the bubbles down low where they are sucked into the pump. Keep the bubbles on the surface and draw water to the pump from down low. And yes, that T is a problem. Why are you doing that? __________________ - Scott

06/18/2007, 05:30 AM	#7
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	The 3/4" plumbing on the Mag9 is a huge flow restriction. You aren't getting anywhere near full flow. To do so, you would need 1.5" (its in the instructions). Moving up to 1" plumbing will increase the flow and most likely make the problem worse. __________________ - Scott

06/18/2007, 04:48 PM	#11
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Leave the plumbing @ 3/4". Adding more flow will make the problem worse. I would get rid of the 2nd baffle, put a filter sock on the drain. move the return farther to the right. Keep the bubbles and the return as far apart as possible, keep the bubbles on the surface of the sump. __________________ - Scott

06/17/2007, 04:52 PM	#2
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161

06/17/2007, 06:13 PM	#3
RobSW1 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tallahassee, Florida FSU Posts: 244	I think raising the water level in the last resovior will help, and moving the pump over farther away from the baffles will help. If all else fails, then yes adding another baffle will help, but if you do all three of these you will notice more significant changes. HTH Rob

06/17/2007, 09:13 PM	#6
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	no water goes through the T. the t is there because the ball valve is not on the direct line of the return so if i do decide to lower the amount of water going to the DT i can just open the ball valve that is off to the side on the T and it doesnt restrict the pump at all. its not creating bubbles though because it is not open at the moment. im wondering if i had 1"plumbing for the return pipe would that help at all? i think that is the only restriction that i have on the pump

06/18/2007, 09:41 AM	#8
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	should i just leave it at 3/4" then?

06/18/2007, 01:41 PM	#9
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	so can anyone recomend what i should do? should i add another baffle to help remove the micro bubbles? and should i switch the plumbing to 1"??? please help

06/18/2007, 03:56 PM	#10
klam114 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 685	Adding a filter sock will absorb a lot of the bubbles.

06/18/2007, 10:00 PM	#12
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	why would removing the last baffle help? i dont think that is creating bubbles. the bubbles are coming from the skimmer. i have a filter sock on the plumbing to the sump... wouldnt adding another baffle before the pump help? or is there an easier way.... i will start by moving the pump farther away but i dont think it wil help since i am still making tons of bubbles with my skimmer

06/18/2007, 10:03 PM	#13
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	The last baffle is sending the bubbles down low into the return section. If you just had the single baffle, the bubbles would stay on top of the water as long as there was only a very slight drop to the return section. __________________ - Scott

06/19/2007, 09:01 AM	#15
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	why do people hav so many baffles if then? all the sumps/fuges that people buy all have around 6 baffles or so.........maybe adding a filter sock to the output of the skimmer would help since i already have one on the drain?

06/19/2007, 10:14 AM	#16
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Good question. I've made 3 sumps with this type of trap and they just dont work. I'm not alone in that conclusion either. If you have the drain and skimmer outputs going through filter socks (100 micron are good), you wont have a problem. __________________ - Scott

06/19/2007, 01:03 PM	#17
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	so your saying that the bubbles would just stay at the top if i was to remove the last baffle in my sump? if i added the another baffle wouldnt it pretty much do the same thing as 1 baffle? i would think that 3 baffles would still keep the bubbles to the top because the water would have to go over the third baffle. correct me if im wrong. i appreciate all your advice and i just want to get my sump to work as good as it can. thanks

06/19/2007, 01:27 PM	#18
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Yes, the 3rd baffle would also keep the bubbles on top but...you now moved the bubbles closer to the return pump than with a single baffle. That space is better utilized by a bigger fuge or return section. __________________ - Scott

06/19/2007, 01:40 PM	#19
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	well i cant really make the fuge bigger but it works good how it is. i just dontthink that moving the pump further would really make that much of a difference but i may try removing the baffle if u think that will really help

06/19/2007, 02:08 PM	#20
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Are bubbles making it under that 2nd baffle now? What is the source of the bubbles? Drain? Skimmer? Both? __________________ - Scott

06/19/2007, 04:37 PM	#21
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	both but im going to be able to solve the drain on my own but putting the plubing under water because when it splashes down in the filter sock it is making bubbles. im going to try and see if adding a filter sock to the skimmer helps too. but im still not sure what to do with the baffles.... and yes bubbles are coming under the second baffle right into the pump...

06/19/2007, 04:40 PM	#22
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	i can put water in the sump so it goes over the last baffle and if that makes no bubbles then maybe i should just remove the baffle because if what your saying is true about not needing baffles then this will prove it...right?

06/19/2007, 05:36 PM	#23
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Well, if the O-U baffle isn't stopping the bubbles from passing through (I'm not surprised), adding a 3rd baffle wont do anything to remove the bubbles that are there from the first two. It will just waste space. Remove baffle #2, and have the water level in the return just a bit lower than the baffle height. This should help to keep the bubbles on the surface. Keep the return pump all the way over to the right. __________________ - Scott

06/19/2007, 07:55 PM	#24
igotthatFIREman Moved On Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 161	to test this out wouldnt i be able to run the water level in the sump higher then the last baffle right now? ....jsut to test it out. it would be like i dont have a baffle there because the water would flow at the top...right? my baffles are only 6.5"

06/19/2007, 07:57 PM	#25
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Pipe your skimmer effluent back to the entry chamber, and put a big wad of cheato in the path of the flow. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.