cycle not really happening why?

rogergolf66 · 06/21/2007, 02:38 PM

Well I setup my tank and added water on Live sand and 100LBS of live rock on June 8th I have been testing the water every 2 days the nitrites and nitrates have been 0 every time and the Amonia has only gone up to .5 it will be 2 weeks tommorow is that normal? I thought the ammonia would spike already?

Thanks
Roger

Bebo77 · 06/21/2007, 02:40 PM

was the rock already cured? if so you probably wont get a cycle...

rogergolf66 · 06/21/2007, 03:04 PM

so why did amonia go to .5

Roger

yes the rock was cured it was in my other tank.

so are you saying the tank will not cycle and it dosn't need to cycle or are you saying the rock will not cycle the tank and I need to cycle it a different way? or are you saying the cycle is over? but I don't think it is over because the nitrates and nitrites never went above 0

so what do you think?

Roger

papagimp · 06/21/2007, 03:09 PM

what he is saying is that, if the rock was already cured, that means it's already got the beneficial bacteria colonized on it and when ammonia/nitrite are present, they will be dealt with faster than you can get out the test kit and register them. This just means the cycle probably happened the moment you stuck the rock in and before you got the testing done for the first time.

The ammonia being at 0.5ppm could just be your test kit. My AP brand test kit always shows at a minimum .025 on the color chart, weather there is ammonia or not, just inaccurate that way.

Now all that being said, if there is no bioload being added to the tank, such as dieoff from uncured rock, you wil not see ammonia or nitrite or nitrates. You need something "filthing" up the water for the rock to actual cycle anything. I would keep testing for ammonia and nitrite, nitrates will show up soon enough, especially after you start adding livestock. Maybe get some dead jumbo shrimp (1 piece) and stick it in the tank, that'll get a cycle started for sure, or use a freshwater molly for a couple weeks (acclimate for about 4-6 hours to get him in full saltwater).
Since there is some doubt as to weather you had a cycle, just take it nice and slow and don't go add 30 fish tommorrow.

adambaron · 06/21/2007, 03:16 PM

If your ammonia did go up then it did (or is) cycling a little. The cycle is caused by the die off from the live rock decaying. This in turn turns to ammonia then eventually all the good bacteria on your live rock and sand bed grows and turns the bacteria into nitrite then nitrate. So long as you had some sort of a cycle I think it should be fine once all the ammonia is gone as long as you add your livestock very slowly. As far as not having any nitrates or nitrites they are broken down by the anarobic bacteria in your live rock and sand bed.

Davidb6 · 06/21/2007, 03:18 PM

Donâ€™t know if your situation is normal but, as a comparison - I just finished cycling my tank with semi-cured live rock and live sand. My ammonia took about 4 days to start increasing and my nitrate and nitrate stayed at zero until the end of the 2nd week. During the next two weeks everything had spiked and declined to zero.

You may just need to wait a few more days. Big differences in how long it takes based on many factors.

papagimp · 06/21/2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Davidb6
Big differences in how long it takes based on many factors.

Exactly!! Every tank is different to some extent, even when setup identical to each other, their will be differences.

rogergolf66 · 06/26/2007, 09:05 PM

well it is going on week 3 and still no spike in ammonia, still no trace of nitites or nitates, so tonight I added a fish. He ate like a king before I added him so he should be pooping soon hope this helps. I am wondering because the rock was so established is it posible for the tank to not do a cycle?

I was wondering and I am thinking if that is posible then the tank will not increase ammonia and such even with the fish in the tank. So If I have no increase after 2 weeks then I am going to add more stuff. I don't think this will be the case however. It would be cool if my levels always stayed at zero.

Roger

rbtwo4 · 06/26/2007, 09:09 PM

when cycling your tank do u have to have ur filter running? i have a wet/dry just curious

adambaron · 06/27/2007, 11:30 AM

Yes you want to have it running as well as your skimmer for sure. When you say wet dry, are you using bio balls? If so I would reccemend (and I'm sure others will agree) that you should get rid of the bio balls and just live rock for biological filtration.

rogergolf66 · 06/27/2007, 01:43 PM

Yes I would agree to get rid of the bioballs, but I would wait entill after your tank is cycled to remove them. Remove about 1/4 of them every 2 weeks till they are all out of the system.

Roger

kookerson · 06/27/2007, 02:54 PM

FWIW....... when I put in 50 pounds of LR in my new 75 about a month agi, The cycle took MAYBE 5 days.......The LR was Cured and spent 2 days in shipping....I also ran my skimmer from the moment I put the LR in......HTH!

rogergolf66 · 06/27/2007, 03:31 PM

FWIX what does that mean?

HTH what does that mean?

bertoni · 06/27/2007, 04:54 PM

Many tanks never show any ammonia at all. I've set up two tanks like that. I wouldn't worry.

FWIW = for what it's worth
HTH = hope that helps

rogergolf66 · 06/27/2007, 05:28 PM

ahh I hope you are right, But how do I know it is safe to start adding all my live stock then?

bertoni · 06/27/2007, 05:42 PM

Just stock up slowly, and everything should be fine. If you want to test the system, you could try feeding a tiny bit of food each day, to simulate animal load, and see how that goes.

rogergolf66 · 07/06/2007, 10:30 AM

well it is very odd. I have put 2 fish in one last week and one last night. All my levels are still all zero. Is this normal when using live rock to cycle? I have only used fish in the past.

Roger

bertoni · 07/06/2007, 11:05 AM

That's within the bounds of normal. I've set up two tanks that never showed any ammonia. It's more common for something on the live rock to die and decay, but either way is fine.

Europa13 · 07/06/2007, 11:07 AM

It's possible for a tank to cycle in just a few days. But a newly cycled tank can't handle much bio-load without resulting in an ammonia spike. My suggestion would be to very slowly stock it. I wouldn't add any more fish for a month, and then add one fish every month until it's fully stocked.

rogergolf66 · 07/06/2007, 03:35 PM

even with 180 gallons of water I should only add 3 inches of fish per month.

that seems very conservite?

Roger

the next fish going in are 2 clowns one about 3 inches the other about 1 1/2 inches.

then a shrimp gobie about 3 1/2 inches
jail bird 2 inches

lawn mower gobie 3 1/2 inches.

bertoni · 07/06/2007, 05:35 PM

I think that's a bit conservative, too. I'd quarantine the fish, but I bet you could add three 3" fish a month to that size tank with no issues.

Europa13 · 07/06/2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogergolf66
even with 180 gallons of water I should only add 3 inches of fish per month.

that seems very conservite?

Roger

the next fish going in are 2 clowns one about 3 inches the other about 1 1/2 inches.

then a shrimp gobie about 3 1/2 inches
jail bird 2 inches

lawn mower gobie 3 1/2 inches.

Sorry, I didn't realize it was that big of a tank.

06/21/2007, 02:38 PM	#1
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	cycle not really happening why? Well I setup my tank and added water on Live sand and 100LBS of live rock on June 8th I have been testing the water every 2 days the nitrites and nitrates have been 0 every time and the Amonia has only gone up to .5 it will be 2 weeks tommorow is that normal? I thought the ammonia would spike already? Thanks Roger __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/21/2007, 02:40 PM	#2
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	was the rock already cured? if so you probably wont get a cycle... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

06/21/2007, 03:04 PM	#3
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	so why did amonia go to .5 Roger yes the rock was cured it was in my other tank. so are you saying the tank will not cycle and it dosn't need to cycle or are you saying the rock will not cycle the tank and I need to cycle it a different way? or are you saying the cycle is over? but I don't think it is over because the nitrates and nitrites never went above 0 so what do you think? Roger __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/21/2007, 03:09 PM	#4
papagimp COMAS Rocks! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 8,185 Blog Entries: 2	what he is saying is that, if the rock was already cured, that means it's already got the beneficial bacteria colonized on it and when ammonia/nitrite are present, they will be dealt with faster than you can get out the test kit and register them. This just means the cycle probably happened the moment you stuck the rock in and before you got the testing done for the first time. The ammonia being at 0.5ppm could just be your test kit. My AP brand test kit always shows at a minimum .025 on the color chart, weather there is ammonia or not, just inaccurate that way. Now all that being said, if there is no bioload being added to the tank, such as dieoff from uncured rock, you wil not see ammonia or nitrite or nitrates. You need something "filthing" up the water for the rock to actual cycle anything. I would keep testing for ammonia and nitrite, nitrates will show up soon enough, especially after you start adding livestock. Maybe get some dead jumbo shrimp (1 piece) and stick it in the tank, that'll get a cycle started for sure, or use a freshwater molly for a couple weeks (acclimate for about 4-6 hours to get him in full saltwater). Since there is some doubt as to weather you had a cycle, just take it nice and slow and don't go add 30 fish tommorrow. __________________ 58g Softie & 75g Stoney Member, Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society Current Tank Info: 58g Mixed Reef Project - Started June 2011

06/21/2007, 03:16 PM	#5
adambaron Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pooler, GA Posts: 208	If your ammonia did go up then it did (or is) cycling a little. The cycle is caused by the die off from the live rock decaying. This in turn turns to ammonia then eventually all the good bacteria on your live rock and sand bed grows and turns the bacteria into nitrite then nitrate. So long as you had some sort of a cycle I think it should be fine once all the ammonia is gone as long as you add your livestock very slowly. As far as not having any nitrates or nitrites they are broken down by the anarobic bacteria in your live rock and sand bed. __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." -Douglas Adams Current Tank Info: 180 reef, 55gal african cichlid

06/21/2007, 03:18 PM	#6
Davidb6 Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Savanah Ga Posts: 770	Donâ€™t know if your situation is normal but, as a comparison - I just finished cycling my tank with semi-cured live rock and live sand. My ammonia took about 4 days to start increasing and my nitrate and nitrate stayed at zero until the end of the 2nd week. During the next two weeks everything had spiked and declined to zero. You may just need to wait a few more days. Big differences in how long it takes based on many factors.

06/26/2007, 09:05 PM	#8
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	well it is going on week 3 and still no spike in ammonia, still no trace of nitites or nitates, so tonight I added a fish. He ate like a king before I added him so he should be pooping soon hope this helps. I am wondering because the rock was so established is it posible for the tank to not do a cycle? I was wondering and I am thinking if that is posible then the tank will not increase ammonia and such even with the fish in the tank. So If I have no increase after 2 weeks then I am going to add more stuff. I don't think this will be the case however. It would be cool if my levels always stayed at zero. Roger __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/26/2007, 09:09 PM	#9
rbtwo4 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NY Posts: 747	when cycling your tank do u have to have ur filter running? i have a wet/dry just curious __________________ I am completely ADDICTED!!!! Current Tank Info: 30G Rimless Deep Blue, AI Sol, 120 SWC Skimmer, Apex controller, MP10

06/27/2007, 11:30 AM	#10
adambaron Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pooler, GA Posts: 208	Yes you want to have it running as well as your skimmer for sure. When you say wet dry, are you using bio balls? If so I would reccemend (and I'm sure others will agree) that you should get rid of the bio balls and just live rock for biological filtration. __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." -Douglas Adams Current Tank Info: 180 reef, 55gal african cichlid

06/27/2007, 01:43 PM	#11
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	Yes I would agree to get rid of the bioballs, but I would wait entill after your tank is cycled to remove them. Remove about 1/4 of them every 2 weeks till they are all out of the system. Roger __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/27/2007, 02:54 PM	#12
kookerson Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,017	FWIW....... when I put in 50 pounds of LR in my new 75 about a month agi, The cycle took MAYBE 5 days.......The LR was Cured and spent 2 days in shipping....I also ran my skimmer from the moment I put the LR in......HTH!

06/27/2007, 03:31 PM	#13
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	FWIX what does that mean? HTH what does that mean? __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/27/2007, 04:54 PM	#14
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Many tanks never show any ammonia at all. I've set up two tanks like that. I wouldn't worry. FWIW = for what it's worth HTH = hope that helps __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/27/2007, 05:28 PM	#15
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	ahh I hope you are right, But how do I know it is safe to start adding all my live stock then? __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

06/27/2007, 05:42 PM	#16
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Just stock up slowly, and everything should be fine. If you want to test the system, you could try feeding a tiny bit of food each day, to simulate animal load, and see how that goes. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/06/2007, 10:30 AM	#17
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	well it is very odd. I have put 2 fish in one last week and one last night. All my levels are still all zero. Is this normal when using live rock to cycle? I have only used fish in the past. Roger __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

07/06/2007, 11:05 AM	#18
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That's within the bounds of normal. I've set up two tanks that never showed any ammonia. It's more common for something on the live rock to die and decay, but either way is fine. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/06/2007, 11:07 AM	#19
Europa13 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 130	It's possible for a tank to cycle in just a few days. But a newly cycled tank can't handle much bio-load without resulting in an ammonia spike. My suggestion would be to very slowly stock it. I wouldn't add any more fish for a month, and then add one fish every month until it's fully stocked.

07/06/2007, 03:35 PM	#20
rogergolf66 im an addict lol Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Land o lakes, FLorida Posts: 12,930	even with 180 gallons of water I should only add 3 inches of fish per month. that seems very conservite? Roger the next fish going in are 2 clowns one about 3 inches the other about 1 1/2 inches. then a shrimp gobie about 3 1/2 inches jail bird 2 inches lawn mower gobie 3 1/2 inches. __________________ Goal levels: salinity 35ppt, temp 78-79, alk 8-9, cal 430-450, mag 1310-1400 po4 .03, no3 1-3 Current Tank Info: System 1... 100 gal Zoa tank I built, 30 gal Ric Yuma shroom tank, 30 gal mix tank my sons,40 gal softie tank, 40 gal nem tank, two 40 gal LPS tank. System 2... 240 gal SPS display attached 100 gal frag SPS only tank.

07/06/2007, 05:35 PM	#21
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I think that's a bit conservative, too. I'd quarantine the fish, but I bet you could add three 3" fish a month to that size tank with no issues. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni