Educate yourself first !!

Young Frankenstein · 07/01/2007, 05:12 AM

Bad mouthing LFS stores and statements like "(STAY AWAY FROM PETCO !!)" or my local LFS "balblabla" pushes the problem towards others than the individual. I think the main fault here is people that don't spend the time it requires to learn and Educate themselves first !! about reeftanks. When walking in a PETCO store the reefer should know the answers already, RC has hundred's of articles and there's other websites out here that offer an abundance in information for free. This hobby requires time to understand how you can transfer 100SQ feet of nature to your home and enjoy it.

Shagsbeard · 07/01/2007, 06:30 AM

Right. Absolutely.

The reason we say "Stay away from Petco" is that they've simply developed a business model around exploiting people's ignorance rather than educating their customers (and staff).

currentking · 07/01/2007, 07:02 AM

I have been around this hobby for about 2 years and I am still a rookie. I just recently found out about this website and where my local LFS's are. As someone new in the hobby, I did not know anything, better yet did not know where to go, so I trusted my first LFS that I came across. It was an amazing place, that gave me lots of info and sold me the best products available, then sold me an eel. angels, tangs, jellyfish and many other things for a reef tank. I dumped about 4 grand till I realized that I wasn't the problem, it was the LFS. So in defense to people going to petco, they just dont know where to start. Sorry that I did not know the answers till now.

Dubbin1 · 07/01/2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 0 Agios
I think the main fault here is people that don't spend the time it requires to learn and Educate themselves first !! about reeftanks. When walking in a PETCO store the reefer should know the answers already

Wrong!!! The people that is doing the selling are the ones that need to be educated enough to give the new person in the hobby the right answers. According to your statement, if your car breaks down then you should know whats wrong with it before you take it to a mechanic to be fixed.

Young Frankenstein · 07/01/2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dubbin1
Wrong!!! The people that is doing the selling are the ones that need to be educated enough to give the new person in the hobby the right answers. According to your statement, if your car breaks down then you should know whats wrong with it before you take it to a mechanic to be fixed.

I don't mean to start arguing about this subject, but if your car breaks down and you trust your local mechanic....... he will take you to the cleaners, just like people spending $$$$$$ before they decide to do a Google free search for this site and others. That's just the world we live in today my friend, everything for the $, so if some people don't want to be taken advantage of, maybe they shouldn't trust so much the 18 year old, after all a reef tank is the most challenging of aquariums, people not too long ago were not able to keep any corals in there fish tanks, not even a clam never mind SPS or LPS.

Dubbin1 · 07/01/2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 0 Agios
I don't mean to start arguing about this subject, but if your car breaks down and you trust your local mechanic....... he will take you to the cleaners

I was in the automotive field and a pretty good tech for years and I can honestly say that for the most part that you are wrong on your view of a good mechanic... Anyway, it is the employers responsibility to educate the staff at any job. If the employer will not live up to that then they are the ones to blame when they steer people in the wrong direction.

Mare100 · 07/01/2007, 07:49 AM

Mr. Agios...

Being one of the aforementioned people who complained already about a fish store selling me something that I wasn't ready for, I would just like to offer my "view" on the subject.

While I do try very hard to check into things before I buy them or attempt to add them to my tank....sometimes this is just impossible. When setting up our tanks, we found there were hundreds of books out there and as many varying opinions on any given aspect of reefkeeping. Whether I am wrong for this or not, I don't always have the time to spend researching everything. I would like to think that I can rely on the experiences of others (especially professional businesses) to help in my learning process. I guess this is a little naive maybe on my part, but I just feel it would be nice to be able to trust someone....whether it be a fish shop or an auto mechanic. I just don't think it's right that businesses are allowed to claim expertise on something then not be held accountable. Unfortunately, the more society just passes it off as "oh well...that's the way it is"....the more they will be allowed to get away with it.

M

Shagsbeard · 07/01/2007, 08:07 AM

The auto mechanic analogy is flawwed. Auto mechanics have been regulated to the point where most (at least in my area) are legit. When one is disreputable, he's hauled into court and fined if found liable.

The problem with the LFS part of this analogy is that there's no consensus on what makes "good" advice, or at least no legally recongnized "expert" opinions. There's no evidence of wrong doing, even though we all know that there is. Until someone forks over the big bucks and sues over bad advice, the box store buisinesses will continue to sell fish, electronics, and just about anything else you can buy to people who really need to be educated about their purchaces first.

In America, you're given an education free of charge. What you choose to do with that education is up to you. It's optional to be an idiot... though sometimes it's not so bad. If we start protecting idiots, they'll take over. Who knows... idiots might already be in the highest offices of our country.

Paul B · 07/01/2007, 08:15 AM

There are really no qualifications to work at fish store.
It is also usually minimum wage.
That being said you really should know something about an animal before you buy it. The kid working at the store may be knowlegable but in all probability has never kept anything that the store sells.
Last week I was in a large LFS and the guy working there sold this older man a naso tang to go into his 30 gallon tank. The guy asked if his tank was too small and the salesman told him "of course not, we keep them in 30 gallon tanks all the time. When the guy left I gave the salesman a piece of my mind. I know he is there to sell thats why he is called a salesman. Thats why you need to know something before you walk through the door.
You should however ask to see the fish eat before you buy it. If it does not eat or if they won't feed it, go to another store. Fish will not always eat in a store but I would leave that fish there anyway.
Paul

EdKruzel · 07/01/2007, 08:24 AM

A retail business is open for only one reason, to make money. Some are quite knowledgeable and some are not, while some are honest and others are dishonest. It doesn't matter what field of sales or trade we apply that too, it's an unfortunate way of life.

The internet is a wonderful tool with just about any type of information available; even if you don't wish to be an expert on a particular topic or you trust the person/store you're dealing with, it still doesn't hurt to do some basic research and familiarize yourself before the purchase.

This topic has just about ran its course and will be closed before it becomes an argument amongst mechanics.

Ed Kruzel
RC Moderator

07/01/2007, 05:12 AM	#1
Young Frankenstein Moved On Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami Florida. Posts: 3,842	Educate yourself first !! Bad mouthing LFS stores and statements like "(STAY AWAY FROM PETCO !!)" or my local LFS "balblabla" pushes the problem towards others than the individual. I think the main fault here is people that don't spend the time it requires to learn and Educate themselves first !! about reeftanks. When walking in a PETCO store the reefer should know the answers already, RC has hundred's of articles and there's other websites out here that offer an abundance in information for free. This hobby requires time to understand how you can transfer 100SQ feet of nature to your home and enjoy it.

07/01/2007, 07:49 AM	#7
Mare100 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Becket, MA Posts: 382	Mr. Agios... Being one of the aforementioned people who complained already about a fish store selling me something that I wasn't ready for, I would just like to offer my "view" on the subject. While I do try very hard to check into things before I buy them or attempt to add them to my tank....sometimes this is just impossible. When setting up our tanks, we found there were hundreds of books out there and as many varying opinions on any given aspect of reefkeeping. Whether I am wrong for this or not, I don't always have the time to spend researching everything. I would like to think that I can rely on the experiences of others (especially professional businesses) to help in my learning process. I guess this is a little naive maybe on my part, but I just feel it would be nice to be able to trust someone....whether it be a fish shop or an auto mechanic. I just don't think it's right that businesses are allowed to claim expertise on something then not be held accountable. Unfortunately, the more society just passes it off as "oh well...that's the way it is"....the more they will be allowed to get away with it. M __________________ "No, no, yes, no, I tried that, yes--both ways, no, I don't know, no again. Are there anymore questions? Good." - Xena Current Tank Info: 55 Gal. FOWLR; 120 Gal. Reef - since 1/07

07/01/2007, 08:15 AM	#9
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	There are really no qualifications to work at fish store. It is also usually minimum wage. That being said you really should know something about an animal before you buy it. The kid working at the store may be knowlegable but in all probability has never kept anything that the store sells. Last week I was in a large LFS and the guy working there sold this older man a naso tang to go into his 30 gallon tank. The guy asked if his tank was too small and the salesman told him "of course not, we keep them in 30 gallon tanks all the time. When the guy left I gave the salesman a piece of my mind. I know he is there to sell thats why he is called a salesman. Thats why you need to know something before you walk through the door. You should however ask to see the fish eat before you buy it. If it does not eat or if they won't feed it, go to another store. Fish will not always eat in a store but I would leave that fish there anyway. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

07/01/2007, 08:24 AM	#10
EdKruzel Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 7,384	A retail business is open for only one reason, to make money. Some are quite knowledgeable and some are not, while some are honest and others are dishonest. It doesn't matter what field of sales or trade we apply that too, it's an unfortunate way of life. The internet is a wonderful tool with just about any type of information available; even if you don't wish to be an expert on a particular topic or you trust the person/store you're dealing with, it still doesn't hurt to do some basic research and familiarize yourself before the purchase. This topic has just about ran its course and will be closed before it becomes an argument amongst mechanics. Ed Kruzel RC Moderator __________________ When you find yourself in "Deep Water" it's best to keep your mouth shut! Current Tank Info: 65RR Cube Mixed Reef

07/01/2007, 06:30 AM	#2
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Right. Absolutely. The reason we say "Stay away from Petco" is that they've simply developed a business model around exploiting people's ignorance rather than educating their customers (and staff).

07/01/2007, 07:02 AM	#3
currentking Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Palm Bay Florida Posts: 868	I have been around this hobby for about 2 years and I am still a rookie. I just recently found out about this website and where my local LFS's are. As someone new in the hobby, I did not know anything, better yet did not know where to go, so I trusted my first LFS that I came across. It was an amazing place, that gave me lots of info and sold me the best products available, then sold me an eel. angels, tangs, jellyfish and many other things for a reef tank. I dumped about 4 grand till I realized that I wasn't the problem, it was the LFS. So in defense to people going to petco, they just dont know where to start. Sorry that I did not know the answers till now.

07/01/2007, 08:07 AM	#8
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	The auto mechanic analogy is flawwed. Auto mechanics have been regulated to the point where most (at least in my area) are legit. When one is disreputable, he's hauled into court and fined if found liable. The problem with the LFS part of this analogy is that there's no consensus on what makes "good" advice, or at least no legally recongnized "expert" opinions. There's no evidence of wrong doing, even though we all know that there is. Until someone forks over the big bucks and sues over bad advice, the box store buisinesses will continue to sell fish, electronics, and just about anything else you can buy to people who really need to be educated about their purchaces first. In America, you're given an education free of charge. What you choose to do with that education is up to you. It's optional to be an idiot... though sometimes it's not so bad. If we start protecting idiots, they'll take over. Who knows... idiots might already be in the highest offices of our country.