Metal Halides: Distance from the water casuing me problems??

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 12:37 PM

My HQI 150W MH lights are mounted about 3-4 inches from the top of the water. I am not having very good luck with Coralline Algae in my tank, it is practically bleaching. I have been doing lots of water tests, etc. and cannot seem to find a solution to my problems. I posted my water parameter a week back and everyone said I was close enough...

Beside the obvious heat factor, (I have no heat issues with them at 3 inches) is there any reason metal halides should be further off the top of the water? Are they causing my problems?

Oh, and this is a aqualight pro retrofit kit (converted the PC to VHO though) so it DOES have the UV glass on the bulbs.

Please share your thoughts on this..

Thanks again.

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 12:38 PM

One other thing to mention is that the coralline is growing on some of the undersides of the rocks, in the darker areas.

easye123 · 07/02/2007, 12:44 PM

how old is the tank?

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by easye123
how old is the tank?

About 1 year old now. Maybe 15 months..

samherston · 07/02/2007, 12:46 PM

The bulbs are WAY to close to the water... they need to be about 10-12 inches off the TOP of the water! That will give the best to both color and water temp!

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by samherston
The bulbs are WAY to close to the water... they need to be about 10-12 inches off the TOP of the water! That will give the best to both color and water temp!

Anyone else have an opinion, I dont have a problem with heat, but i never heard color would be impacted.

hyperfocal · 07/02/2007, 01:24 PM

10 to 12 inches sounds high to me. I'm running 6 to 8 inches off. Either way, I doubt that is your coralline problem. I'd check Ca and Alk. Also, coralline growth seems to be cyclical in my tank, with periods of growth followed by periods of recession. I'll get a couple of months of insane growth, followed by a few weeks of bleaching and recession. Don't know if that's typical...

kuoka · 07/02/2007, 01:30 PM

I agree 6 to 8" is fine. Mine is about 6 and I'm not getting any bleaching. My coraline hasn't started growing yet either. Everyone I've ping'd say to just wait it out (assuming your CA and ALK are fine).

hyperfocal · 07/02/2007, 01:51 PM

You might be better off anyways... coralline is a love/hate thing. I love it growing on the rocks, and as a sign of overall tank health. I hate cleaning it off the tank walls. Makes my spaghetti-arms tired and sore ;-)

dcombs44 · 07/02/2007, 02:08 PM

It could be bleaching. I've had times of dieoff with my coralline, but I've never been sure why. I've also heard that different light spectrums can promote different colors of corraline growth. You may experiment with raising your lights a few inches (if that's easy to do), but beyond that, just make sure your calcium/alk/Mg levels are all appropriate.

sammyfish · 07/02/2007, 02:23 PM

From what I understand, coralline does not grow well under metal halide lighting. I don't think it is the placement of the lights. I have my light fixture sitting right on the tank with no problems.

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyfish
From what I understand, coralline does not grow well under metal halide lighting. I don't think it is the placement of the lights. I have my light fixture sitting right on the tank with no problems.

Thanks for all the insight, anyone else?

I have not decided to move the lights up yet.

samherston · 07/02/2007, 02:31 PM

If you have the right lighting, the right ALK/PH, the coraline will grow VERY WELL under halides!

hyperfocal · 07/02/2007, 02:35 PM

Agreed. Metal halides grow coralline just fine.

stanlalee · 07/02/2007, 02:37 PM

I wouldn't say coralline doesn't like metal halides but it definately in general does not like the highest intensity areas such as high up directly under the bulb. with the lights being so low (too low if you ask me for several reasons) it only exacerbates the issue (wouldn't call it a problem). generally the coralline will die at least initially in a few brightly lit "hot spots" but should grow just fine everywhere else. may even grow back in those area's once it reacclimates around those areas. I had this happen when I went from pc to MH. overall though coralline growth took off most places.

Gary Majchrzak · 07/02/2007, 02:40 PM

what's your alk/Ca and Mg levels? Ever dose Sr?
Certain species of coralline grow in well lit areas and certain species like it semi-shaded.

barclayrl · 07/02/2007, 06:48 PM

Another note on the lights... I also noticed the same symptoms in my sump. (Low power Melev bulb) So I donâ€™t think my MH lights are the problem, here are my parameters. I have not tested for phosphates yet... Is there a chance that they may be hindering the Coralline and causing the Marco Algae in my display (from a previous post). I read this somewhere; I have a Salifert phosphate test on the way alsoâ€¦

Tank parameters
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PH = 8.07 @ 2:30PM
CA = 370
ALK = 3.66
DHK = 10.2
MG = 1280
SG = 1.025

sabbath · 07/02/2007, 07:06 PM

Your Ca is a little low. I like it above 400.

Gary Majchrzak · 07/02/2007, 08:26 PM

agreed. With a dKH of 10.2 bring Ca up to a balanced level of 420-440 ppm.
Boosting Mg to 1350ppm will also help with corallines.
If you really want to to see some coralline take off try boosting Sr.

IME phosphates don't hinder the growth of macroalgae or coralline algae and (in fact) they may grow faster in the presence of them.

barclayrl · 07/06/2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
agreed. With a dKH of 10.2 bring Ca up to a balanced level of 420-440 ppm.
Boosting Mg to 1350ppm will also help with corallines.
If you really want to to see some coralline take off try boosting Sr.

IME phosphates don't hinder the growth of macroalgae or coralline algae and (in fact) they may grow faster in the presence of them.

Just an update, I tested for phosphate in my tank and my Top off source (RO/DI) The test (Salifert) cannot detect any trace. I ordered some Kent Tech M (MG) and some kent 2 part to dose to get my system balanced to i can get my calcium reactor online and dialed in.

I have been waiting to ge the system just right before i get it fired up. So with the fuge having the same resession, is it possible the MH lights are ok?

Ryan

chaseracing · 07/06/2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by samherston
The bulbs are WAY to close to the water... they need to be about 10-12 inches off the TOP of the water! That will give the best to both color and water temp!

umm.....No.

chaseracing · 07/06/2007, 08:06 AM

Ph makes my coralline explode. I was at 8.0 for the longest time (long story) with no growth, now it is at 8.3 and within a day I started growing coralline algea. Within a week it was hard to keep up with scraping it off of the front and sides of the tank. I covered the backside of a 150gal (6 ft wide) in about 30 days.
-=E=-

dcombs44 · 07/06/2007, 08:09 AM

Many people place their halides closer to the water than 10-12 inches. IME people that use a closed hood typically use a chiller or other efficient way to vent the heat from the lights. Most people keep the lights elevated to avoid purchasing a chiller from what I know. Keep in mind that we're comparing to the sun here, and I'm pretty sure that we're not going to create anything that hot/bright. There's got to be another underlying issue causing the recession.

barclayrl · 07/06/2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dcombs44
Many people place their halides closer to the water than 10-12 inches. IME people that use a closed hood typically use a chiller or other efficient way to vent the heat from the lights. Most people keep the lights elevated to avoid purchasing a chiller from what I know. Keep in mind that we're comparing to the sun here, and I'm pretty sure that we're not going to create anything that hot/bright. There's got to be another underlying issue causing the recession.

Thanks for the info, I have no heat issues as stated above i was just wondering if my lights were causing the issues.

Anyone else have nay idea on what i can check on? I am going to work on my PH also.

Ryan

07/02/2007, 12:37 PM	#1
barclayrl Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 332	Metal Halides: Distance from the water casuing me problems?? My HQI 150W MH lights are mounted about 3-4 inches from the top of the water. I am not having very good luck with Coralline Algae in my tank, it is practically bleaching. I have been doing lots of water tests, etc. and cannot seem to find a solution to my problems. I posted my water parameter a week back and everyone said I was close enough... Beside the obvious heat factor, (I have no heat issues with them at 3 inches) is there any reason metal halides should be further off the top of the water? Are they causing my problems? Oh, and this is a aqualight pro retrofit kit (converted the PC to VHO though) so it DOES have the UV glass on the bulbs. Please share your thoughts on this.. Thanks again.

07/02/2007, 12:44 PM	#3
easye123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,505	how old is the tank? __________________ Loading...... Current Tank Info: 90g BB sps 30g sump. 2x175w mh. 2x110w vho act. Vortech. tunze 6025. ER rs 135. TLF phos. ACjr

07/02/2007, 01:24 PM	#7
hyperfocal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edge of oblivion Posts: 1,708	10 to 12 inches sounds high to me. I'm running 6 to 8 inches off. Either way, I doubt that is your coralline problem. I'd check Ca and Alk. Also, coralline growth seems to be cyclical in my tank, with periods of growth followed by periods of recession. I'll get a couple of months of insane growth, followed by a few weeks of bleaching and recession. Don't know if that's typical... __________________ "Froth at the top, dregs at bottom, but the middle excellent." -- Voltaire Current Tank Info: getting back into the hobby

07/02/2007, 01:30 PM	#8
kuoka Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NorCal Cali Posts: 713	I agree 6 to 8" is fine. Mine is about 6 and I'm not getting any bleaching. My coraline hasn't started growing yet either. Everyone I've ping'd say to just wait it out (assuming your CA and ALK are fine). __________________ They say don't talk about someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.. But if you do, at least you'll be ahead of them AND have their shoes! :) Current Tank Info: 72gal glass bow front reef, mostly LPS with some SPS, tangs, anthias, blenny, paired percula clowns, gold headed sleeper goby, red fairy wrasse

07/02/2007, 01:51 PM	#9
hyperfocal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edge of oblivion Posts: 1,708	You might be better off anyways... coralline is a love/hate thing. I love it growing on the rocks, and as a sign of overall tank health. I hate cleaning it off the tank walls. Makes my spaghetti-arms tired and sore ;-) __________________ "Froth at the top, dregs at bottom, but the middle excellent." -- Voltaire Current Tank Info: getting back into the hobby

07/02/2007, 12:38 PM	#2
barclayrl Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 332	One other thing to mention is that the coralline is growing on some of the undersides of the rocks, in the darker areas.

07/02/2007, 12:46 PM	#5
samherston Moved On Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 126	The bulbs are WAY to close to the water... they need to be about 10-12 inches off the TOP of the water! That will give the best to both color and water temp!

07/02/2007, 02:08 PM	#10
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	It could be bleaching. I've had times of dieoff with my coralline, but I've never been sure why. I've also heard that different light spectrums can promote different colors of corraline growth. You may experiment with raising your lights a few inches (if that's easy to do), but beyond that, just make sure your calcium/alk/Mg levels are all appropriate. __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress

07/02/2007, 02:23 PM	#11
sammyfish Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the back, with the ladies Posts: 77	From what I understand, coralline does not grow well under metal halide lighting. I don't think it is the placement of the lights. I have my light fixture sitting right on the tank with no problems. __________________ The night time is the right time Don’t sweat the petty stuff, pet the sweaty stuff

07/02/2007, 02:31 PM	#13
samherston Moved On Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 126	If you have the right lighting, the right ALK/PH, the coraline will grow VERY WELL under halides!

07/02/2007, 02:35 PM	#14
hyperfocal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edge of oblivion Posts: 1,708	Agreed. Metal halides grow coralline just fine. __________________ "Froth at the top, dregs at bottom, but the middle excellent." -- Voltaire Current Tank Info: getting back into the hobby

07/02/2007, 02:37 PM	#15
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	I wouldn't say coralline doesn't like metal halides but it definately in general does not like the highest intensity areas such as high up directly under the bulb. with the lights being so low (too low if you ask me for several reasons) it only exacerbates the issue (wouldn't call it a problem). generally the coralline will die at least initially in a few brightly lit "hot spots" but should grow just fine everywhere else. may even grow back in those area's once it reacclimates around those areas. I had this happen when I went from pc to MH. overall though coralline growth took off most places.

07/02/2007, 02:40 PM	#16
Gary Majchrzak Team RC Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 41,560	what's your alk/Ca and Mg levels? Ever dose Sr? Certain species of coralline grow in well lit areas and certain species like it semi-shaded. __________________ over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF Current Tank Info: 84x24x30 265g reef past TOTM honors

07/02/2007, 06:48 PM	#17
barclayrl Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chambersburg, PA Posts: 332	Another note on the lights... I also noticed the same symptoms in my sump. (Low power Melev bulb) So I donâ€™t think my MH lights are the problem, here are my parameters. I have not tested for phosphates yet... Is there a chance that they may be hindering the Coralline and causing the Marco Algae in my display (from a previous post). I read this somewhere; I have a Salifert phosphate test on the way alsoâ€¦ Tank parameters Ammonia = 0 Nitrite = 0 Nitrate = 0 PH = 8.07 @ 2:30PM CA = 370 ALK = 3.66 DHK = 10.2 MG = 1280 SG = 1.025

07/02/2007, 07:06 PM	#18
sabbath Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Twin City's Mn. Posts: 1,771	Your Ca is a little low. I like it above 400.

07/02/2007, 08:26 PM	#19
Gary Majchrzak Team RC Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 41,560	agreed. With a dKH of 10.2 bring Ca up to a balanced level of 420-440 ppm. Boosting Mg to 1350ppm will also help with corallines. If you really want to to see some coralline take off try boosting Sr. IME phosphates don't hinder the growth of macroalgae or coralline algae and (in fact) they may grow faster in the presence of them. __________________ over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF Current Tank Info: 84x24x30 265g reef past TOTM honors

07/06/2007, 08:06 AM	#22
chaseracing Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 1,208	Ph makes my coralline explode. I was at 8.0 for the longest time (long story) with no growth, now it is at 8.3 and within a day I started growing coralline algea. Within a week it was hard to keep up with scraping it off of the front and sides of the tank. I covered the backside of a 150gal (6 ft wide) in about 30 days. -=E=- __________________ I want my dog's life. Current Tank Info: 150gal RR Oceanic - (3) 250w. ReefLux 12K, (2) 96w PC 50/50, (3) Tunze 6025 modded, (3) Tunze 6045's, ASM G3, MRC-1, Melev F sump/fuge, all run off of an Aquacontroller Jr. Mixed Reef w/ lots of Fish and not enough rock.

07/06/2007, 08:09 AM	#23
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	Many people place their halides closer to the water than 10-12 inches. IME people that use a closed hood typically use a chiller or other efficient way to vent the heat from the lights. Most people keep the lights elevated to avoid purchasing a chiller from what I know. Keep in mind that we're comparing to the sun here, and I'm pretty sure that we're not going to create anything that hot/bright. There's got to be another underlying issue causing the recession. __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress