vaccume live sand??

WDWDen · 07/11/2007, 06:17 PM

I currently have small crushed corral for my substrate. I keep reading about everyone useing live sand. I now have 2 questions for you.

1- Can I put live sand over top of my crused coral? Its currently only about 11/2-2" deep.
2- Do you vacume out your live sand when doing a water change? I do that now with my corals, but I'm thinking that would be bad for the sand.

3-Ok, I know I said 2 questions, but heres another. What should good live sand look like? Is like cured live rock, where it will have a noticable nice color? What should I look for in live sand and how much does it typically cost?

rhino509 · 07/11/2007, 06:20 PM

live sand isnt live when you buy it,i guess it can be,and if you are talking about the live sand that is pre packed,dont waste your money,is what ive been told about it.problably should swap the coral with the sand,just so the sand will grow/fauna able to move freely throughout the sand.just my thoughts.

WaterKeeper · 07/11/2007, 06:39 PM

Hi WDW,

You want to remove crushed coral entirely when replacing the bed. If it is going to be a deep sand bed avoid moving the sand about. You can lightly vacuum off the top surface but leave lower levels alone. I wasn't sure what you meant by removing it for water changes. One is only replacing a portion of the water so if the new water is added slowly it won't stir up the bed. If you have a sump then do water changes there.

True LS is generally white to light tan in color if it is aragonite. It really doesn't show very much when first added but given a few day worm tracks will appear against the glass under the bed. You should also see copepods and such if you take a close look with a red lensed flashlight about an hour after lights out.

drummereef · 07/11/2007, 08:58 PM

1. I would get rid of the crused coral all together. Don't mix the two.
2. Don't vacuum a deep sand bed. Let your cleanup crew keep the top layer sifted.
3. It is white aragonite sand. Don't be fooled into buying 'live' sand. Just get dry aragonite sand, like Caribsea products, and it will become live once it is in your tank. The live rock will help seed it.

kaihonu82 · 07/11/2007, 09:01 PM

taking out all the crushed coral at once, that won't cause the tank to crash? or cycle? seems like taking it out all at once and replacing it with fresh sand would be too much of a shock to the tank

...just thinking out loud here

WDWDen · 07/12/2007, 06:53 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I am hopeing to do the switch this summer.

I don't have a clean up crew. I have an aggresive tank, so I don't think anything will survive in there. Am I wrong about that, or should I try somthing? If so, what do you recommend?

FUA · 07/12/2007, 09:48 AM

when using crushed coral as a substrate do any little beneficial critters thrive in it or is that only accomplished with LS.

WaterKeeper · 07/12/2007, 10:24 AM

The crushed corals establish a bacteria colony just like the true LS. It is just it is too big and heavy for the somewhat larger bed moving organisms to move about. This creates a static bed where detritus accumulates and decomposes. Over time these void spots go completely anaerobic releasing possibly toxic material into the water column. In a true LS DSB there is constant stirring of the bed. You don't see it but it is happening. This moves detritus through the zones of the bed and provides better processing of this waste.

In an established tank with a CC substrate you can put the CC in nylon bags, add the new LS and remove the bags after a couple of weeks. It usually is not needed but it does provide insurance that the biological filtration is not overwhelmed during the change over.

FUA · 07/12/2007, 02:35 PM

right so you should probably siphon crushed coral to rid dead spots and detritus, but the critters in live sand will probably do this for you so you don't need to siphon it. is this right.

07/11/2007, 06:17 PM	#1
WDWDen Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 243	vaccume live sand?? I currently have small crushed corral for my substrate. I keep reading about everyone useing live sand. I now have 2 questions for you. 1- Can I put live sand over top of my crused coral? Its currently only about 11/2-2" deep. 2- Do you vacume out your live sand when doing a water change? I do that now with my corals, but I'm thinking that would be bad for the sand. 3-Ok, I know I said 2 questions, but heres another. What should good live sand look like? Is like cured live rock, where it will have a noticable nice color? What should I look for in live sand and how much does it typically cost?

07/11/2007, 06:39 PM	#3
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Hi WDW, You want to remove crushed coral entirely when replacing the bed. If it is going to be a deep sand bed avoid moving the sand about. You can lightly vacuum off the top surface but leave lower levels alone. I wasn't sure what you meant by removing it for water changes. One is only replacing a portion of the water so if the new water is added slowly it won't stir up the bed. If you have a sump then do water changes there. True LS is generally white to light tan in color if it is aragonite. It really doesn't show very much when first added but given a few day worm tracks will appear against the glass under the bed. You should also see copepods and such if you take a close look with a red lensed flashlight about an hour after lights out. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

07/11/2007, 08:58 PM	#4
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	1. I would get rid of the crused coral all together. Don't mix the two. 2. Don't vacuum a deep sand bed. Let your cleanup crew keep the top layer sifted. 3. It is white aragonite sand. Don't be fooled into buying 'live' sand. Just get dry aragonite sand, like Caribsea products, and it will become live once it is in your tank. The live rock will help seed it. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

07/11/2007, 09:01 PM	#5
kaihonu82 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bay area, ca Posts: 454	taking out all the crushed coral at once, that won't cause the tank to crash? or cycle? seems like taking it out all at once and replacing it with fresh sand would be too much of a shock to the tank ...just thinking out loud here __________________ lindsay

07/12/2007, 10:24 AM	#8
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	The crushed corals establish a bacteria colony just like the true LS. It is just it is too big and heavy for the somewhat larger bed moving organisms to move about. This creates a static bed where detritus accumulates and decomposes. Over time these void spots go completely anaerobic releasing possibly toxic material into the water column. In a true LS DSB there is constant stirring of the bed. You don't see it but it is happening. This moves detritus through the zones of the bed and provides better processing of this waste. In an established tank with a CC substrate you can put the CC in nylon bags, add the new LS and remove the bags after a couple of weeks. It usually is not needed but it does provide insurance that the biological filtration is not overwhelmed during the change over. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

07/11/2007, 06:20 PM	#2
rhino509 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: spokane,wa Posts: 552	live sand isnt live when you buy it,i guess it can be,and if you are talking about the live sand that is pre packed,dont waste your money,is what ive been told about it.problably should swap the coral with the sand,just so the sand will grow/fauna able to move freely throughout the sand.just my thoughts.

07/12/2007, 06:53 AM	#6
WDWDen Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 243	Thanks for the advice guys. I am hopeing to do the switch this summer. I don't have a clean up crew. I have an aggresive tank, so I don't think anything will survive in there. Am I wrong about that, or should I try somthing? If so, what do you recommend?

07/12/2007, 09:48 AM	#7
FUA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 863	when using crushed coral as a substrate do any little beneficial critters thrive in it or is that only accomplished with LS.

07/12/2007, 02:35 PM	#9
FUA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 863	right so you should probably siphon crushed coral to rid dead spots and detritus, but the critters in live sand will probably do this for you so you don't need to siphon it. is this right.