Qted Coral beauty gets Ich in Show Tank Any suggestions?

happyface888 · 07/12/2007, 09:55 PM

Well qted this fish for awhile, it spends most of its time picking at rocks and the fish tank walls. I noticed when I feed it, it only eats a small portion. could it be full from grazing green hairy plants off rocks and glass? Well after QT I moved it to my ST and it developed ich, its breathing is normal, goes everywhere grazing. When I feed it, it only eats a few bites. I feed new life spectrm,cyclop eeze, formula 2 and hikari brine shrimp mixed with vita chem and garlic guard. Samething takes a few bites and its done, could it be full from grazing? And I dont want to yank it back out, there are two false percs and one has signs of it. Is there a alternative that I can do besides taking them out? And how well can the coral beauty deal with ich? Thanks

ACBlinky · 07/12/2007, 10:33 PM

IME there's really no option - remove ALL the fish, and either treat with copper or hyposalinity. While the fish are in the QT for six weeks, the display will run without fish. Any remaining parasites will die off in that time, as they're deprived of a host. Once you're done, theoretically you'll have an ich-free tank for good, providing you treat any new fish before they go into the display. As a rule I place all new fish in hypo for a month, even if they look entirely healthy - that way, hopefully no parasites will have a chance to ever enter the main tank.

Please, please don't leave the fish to 'deal with it'. I've seen first-hand what happens in many cases - entire tanks die needlessly.

Icefire · 07/12/2007, 11:46 PM

It might be okay or he might need to be treated. I don't believe in ich free tank, put a powder blue tang that have gone thru proper QT with hypo/copper than stress him out. Ich for sure even in ich free tank.

If it has spread you need to treat in QT.

Peter Eichler · 07/12/2007, 11:56 PM

Have you tried nori on a clip to see if he'll graze on that? Does he look fat and healthy despite the presence of parasites? I've seen far less hardy fish fight off ich on their own without treatment. However, if your current fish fight it off and remain overall healthy, the chances of the fish still carrying the parasite are pretty good and you may have problems with future fish additions.

Tallman50 · 07/13/2007, 12:02 AM

If you must treat the whole tank (too many fish to quarantine), I had success with Malachite green in my 200g, its invert safe but you have to treat the Ich for 30 days (everyday) or more because thats about how long the parasite's life cycle is. I treated for 6 weeks just in case. I've been Ich free for months. The only downside is, it stains your silicone a little, which didnt really bother me as long as I got rid of that nasty stuff!

taketz · 07/13/2007, 12:10 AM

"It might be okay or he might need to be treated. I don't believe in ich free tank, put a powder blue tang that have gone thru proper QT with hypo/copper than stress him out. Ich for sure even in ich free tank."

Please, Icefire...don't spread bad information. Ich is a parasite and its impossible for a fish to get ich without the parasite being present in the tank.

ACBlinky · 07/13/2007, 12:22 AM

Agreed. I firmly believe there are only two ways to deal with ich: hypo and copper. Period. There are no 'reef safe' methods TMK - the ich parasite is an invert; therefore, chances are something that kills the parasite is also going to affect more desirable inverts in the tank - AFAIK there's no ich-specific pesticide that will target this single species, leaving everything else untouched. I had to learn the hard way, so please trust me - treat all the fish at once, in a separate tank. Even if you can't see spots on some of the fish, they're there (they tend to infest the gills first) and you CAN rid a tank of the parasite and keep it that way, if you quarantine everything wet that ever enters the tank. I'm not sure if putting all new fish through four weeks of hypo is necessary, but IME it hasn't harmed or stressed out any of my fish and I consider it best practices for a healthy tank.

happyface888 · 07/13/2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Have you tried nori on a clip to see if he'll graze on that? Does he look fat and healthy despite the presence of parasites? I've seen far less hardy fish fight off ich on their own without treatment. However, if your current fish fight it off and remain overall healthy, the chances of the fish still carrying the parasite are pretty good and you may have problems with future fish additions.

The coral beauty is fat and plump its healthy and explores the rockworks, always looking around and picking at rocks. the back of my tank has all these little fuzzy strings and I watch it eat it. When food goes down the angel only takes a few bites. I think its getting full off of grazing. Its breathing normal and looks healthy, it doesnt go scratching against rocks or sand just picks and exlpore. I think I will have to try nori, I havent tested it yet. Thanks for the advice peter. Theres only one clown thats got it but it eats like crazy. Well time to soak some nori.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tallman50
If you must treat the whole tank (too many fish to quarantine), I had success with Malachite green in my 200g, its invert safe but you have to treat the Ich for 30 days (everyday) or more because thats about how long the parasite's life cycle is. I treated for 6 weeks just in case. I've been Ich free for months. The only downside is, it stains your silicone a little, which didnt really bother me as long as I got rid of that nasty stuff!

From what I understand there is no reef safe kind of medicine, if there was everyone would use it. Hypo and copper are good ways of treating of course but thats not what I am looking for. I am slowly moving towards believing that ich is in everytank and will always be there. The ich isnt spreading and it looks to be mild its been in there 2 days and it looks the same, not worse or anything. I am looking for other methods or solutions in solving this problem with out moving them out. Thanks for the advice though

taketz · 07/13/2007, 12:53 AM

Happyface888, please read the scientific data out there on Ich

Ich Article Part I

Ich Article Part II

Ich is a parasite which can be eradicated from a home tank. Also, there are many reasons for your fish seemingly getting better from the Ich, all of them having to do with the Ich's life cycle and the possibility that the fish is becoming more resistant to the Parasite. Do not take this as you beating Ich however.

happyface888 · 07/13/2007, 01:01 AM

Thank you for the articles, I have read them before and understand what ich does. But I am looking for a alternative that can be useful that does not involve removing the fish. Would a health diet help the fish recover?

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm

I know about hypo and other treatments I got from this article
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish

taketz · 07/13/2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Thank you for the articles, I have read them before and understand what ich does. But I am looking for a alternative that can be useful that does not involve removing the fish. Would a health diet help the fish recover?

From the second Ich article I posted...

Natural Immunity

Fish can develop immunity to Cryptocaryon irritans that can last for up to six months (Colorni, 1987 and Colorni & Burgess, 1997). It is this natural immunity that makes evaluating the effectiveness of various treatment options so difficult. How can someone ever be certain that what they dosed to their tank or fed to their fish is what caused the cure they observed? The answer is simple, they can't. Until there are controlled, scientific studies, preferably repeated a few times, we cannot be sure that any of the newer homeopathic or "reef-safe" treatments actually work.

This limited immunity is also the basis for some aquarists advocating that if a fish gets sick, to just maintain pristine water quality, feed a superb diet, and to allow the fish's own immune system to do the job. While it is possible that this could work, natural immunity is not totally foolproof. In the studies cited above, some of the fish were not completely protected by their own natural immunity. It is possible that immunity could protect the fish from massive infestation, but still allow small numbers of parasites to remain and reproduce undetected by the aquarist. This is where the 'Ich is always present' argument comes into play and why sometimes an aquarist has recurring difficulties with this pathogen. It is possible, in some cases, that the treatment was cut short or misapplied or for some other reason not totally effective, but that immunity helped to partially ward off the infection. In this situation, a low-level infestation, held in check by natural immunity but not totally eradicated, could continue to survive but be misdiagnosed, or missed all together, by the hobbyist. The parasites could progress through their lifecycle by predominately attacking the gill tissue, where they could go unseen. Or, the number of parasites could be so low and their appearance (and disappearance) be erratic enough that the aquarist does not pick up on the infection or attributes the occasional white spot to a speck of sand or air bubble because the fish are behaving normally otherwise. That is until some other minor mishap occurs or the immunity wears off and the balance shifts in favor of the infestation, resulting in a full-blown infestation once again.

I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed.

So, can you making sure the water's great and giving the fish a good diet possibly make him healthier? Sure, its possible. However the odds are the Ich will again show up in the fish, next time possibly worse, and the one thing you can be certain of is the fact that you know any other fish you introduce into your tank has a strong chance of getting ich.

Its your choice, I just simply want you to know what the science says so you know what you're getting yourself into.

07/12/2007, 09:55 PM	#1
happyface888 Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 3,987	Qted Coral beauty gets Ich in Show Tank Any suggestions? Well qted this fish for awhile, it spends most of its time picking at rocks and the fish tank walls. I noticed when I feed it, it only eats a small portion. could it be full from grazing green hairy plants off rocks and glass? Well after QT I moved it to my ST and it developed ich, its breathing is normal, goes everywhere grazing. When I feed it, it only eats a few bites. I feed new life spectrm,cyclop eeze, formula 2 and hikari brine shrimp mixed with vita chem and garlic guard. Samething takes a few bites and its done, could it be full from grazing? And I dont want to yank it back out, there are two false percs and one has signs of it. Is there a alternative that I can do besides taking them out? And how well can the coral beauty deal with ich? Thanks

07/12/2007, 10:33 PM	#2
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	IME there's really no option - remove ALL the fish, and either treat with copper or hyposalinity. While the fish are in the QT for six weeks, the display will run without fish. Any remaining parasites will die off in that time, as they're deprived of a host. Once you're done, theoretically you'll have an ich-free tank for good, providing you treat any new fish before they go into the display. As a rule I place all new fish in hypo for a month, even if they look entirely healthy - that way, hopefully no parasites will have a chance to ever enter the main tank. Please, please don't leave the fish to 'deal with it'. I've seen first-hand what happens in many cases - entire tanks die needlessly. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

07/12/2007, 11:46 PM	#3
Icefire Seasoned reefer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In Quebec, Canada Posts: 3,653	It might be okay or he might need to be treated. I don't believe in ich free tank, put a powder blue tang that have gone thru proper QT with hypo/copper than stress him out. Ich for sure even in ich free tank. If it has spread you need to treat in QT. __________________ Temp 80F, PH 8.5-8.0, Alk 6.8-7.2, Ca 430, Mg 1700, NO3 0-0.25, PO4 0.04, 34.4 PPT Lights @ 100% all others, 35% White Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 120lbs live rocks, Hydra52 2x120W, 2 MP40+ 1 MP10 @ 70%, Phosban 550 GFO+Carbon, 200W Heater, SWC Skimmer, Kalk ATO, 150 gpd RODI

07/12/2007, 11:56 PM	#4
Peter Eichler Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 6,081	Have you tried nori on a clip to see if he'll graze on that? Does he look fat and healthy despite the presence of parasites? I've seen far less hardy fish fight off ich on their own without treatment. However, if your current fish fight it off and remain overall healthy, the chances of the fish still carrying the parasite are pretty good and you may have problems with future fish additions. __________________ April 2015 TOTM

07/13/2007, 12:22 AM	#7
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Agreed. I firmly believe there are only two ways to deal with ich: hypo and copper. Period. There are no 'reef safe' methods TMK - the ich parasite is an invert; therefore, chances are something that kills the parasite is also going to affect more desirable inverts in the tank - AFAIK there's no ich-specific pesticide that will target this single species, leaving everything else untouched. I had to learn the hard way, so please trust me - treat all the fish at once, in a separate tank. Even if you can't see spots on some of the fish, they're there (they tend to infest the gills first) and you CAN rid a tank of the parasite and keep it that way, if you quarantine everything wet that ever enters the tank. I'm not sure if putting all new fish through four weeks of hypo is necessary, but IME it hasn't harmed or stressed out any of my fish and I consider it best practices for a healthy tank. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

07/13/2007, 12:02 AM	#5
Tallman50 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 60	If you must treat the whole tank (too many fish to quarantine), I had success with Malachite green in my 200g, its invert safe but you have to treat the Ich for 30 days (everyday) or more because thats about how long the parasite's life cycle is. I treated for 6 weeks just in case. I've been Ich free for months. The only downside is, it stains your silicone a little, which didnt really bother me as long as I got rid of that nasty stuff!

07/13/2007, 12:10 AM	#6
taketz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 504	"It might be okay or he might need to be treated. I don't believe in ich free tank, put a powder blue tang that have gone thru proper QT with hypo/copper than stress him out. Ich for sure even in ich free tank." Please, Icefire...don't spread bad information. Ich is a parasite and its impossible for a fish to get ich without the parasite being present in the tank.

07/13/2007, 12:53 AM	#9
taketz Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 504	Happyface888, please read the scientific data out there on Ich Ich Article Part I Ich Article Part II Ich is a parasite which can be eradicated from a home tank. Also, there are many reasons for your fish seemingly getting better from the Ich, all of them having to do with the Ich's life cycle and the possibility that the fish is becoming more resistant to the Parasite. Do not take this as you beating Ich however.

07/13/2007, 01:01 AM	#10
happyface888 Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 3,987	Thank you for the articles, I have read them before and understand what ich does. But I am looking for a alternative that can be useful that does not involve removing the fish. Would a health diet help the fish recover? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm I know about hypo and other treatments I got from this article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/6/fish