Help! Can't balance the sump and refugium flow rate.

[dmdj]

I've been trying to do this for two days now. I have a separate sump and separate refugium each with its own pump. The overflow drains water into the sump. The sump pumps it to the refugium. Finally, the refugium pumps it back to the main tank. Both pumps have ball valves connected to control the flow. The problem is I can't seem to balance the rates out. As the water level in the refugium falls, the level in the sump rises. Or vice versa. Eventually I believe, one will drain out and the other will flood. What can I do about this? Should I use a float switch?

[areze]

your system is flawed unfortunatly. you will never match it. thats why you cant ever have opposing pumps balanced.

you have to use an overflow.

my suggestion would be to get a HOT overflow for the refugium, and return it to the sump. you need the refugium to be raised up and the water level above that of the sump though. you can also drill it for an overflow if you prefer that to the HOT overflow box.

[dmdj]

Another question then.. how is the flow rate of a gravity-fed drain hose from an overflow box easier to match with a pump?

[dmdj]

Also, if I use an overflow box from the main tank to the refugium and another overflow box from the refugium to the sump, what would happen if one drains faster than the other?

[sirreal63]

Your sump and fuge have to be directly connected so water flows from one to the other. Only one pump can be used for the entire flow through the system. Trying to match two pumps will never work.

The flow would be from the main tank to the sump to the fuge where it is pumped back to the display. There is only one pump for all of the circulation.

[areze]

its not gravity fed. it is a submerged balance syphon.



you can see that the water path over the wall is kept submerged on both sides, this means the water cannot wash out. when the level on the tank side goes up, the level on the other side must go up to balance it out. the other side then pours over into the area with the drain in it. works just like the overflow in your tank, it only releases as much water as you put in. so it stays balanced. its not a gravity fed syphon.

[areze]

Originally posted by sirreal63
Your sump and fuge have to be directly connected so water flows from one to the other. Only one pump can be used for the entire flow through the system. Trying to match two pumps will never work.

The flow would be from the main tank to the sump to the fuge where it is pumped back to the display. There is only one pump for all of the circulation.

you can have a 2nd pump, though your way would also work, it would likely be too much flow through the refugium. for every return pump, you need an overflow. better way to look at it might be that there would be 2 "displays" the refugium, and your main tank. the sump is just a common sump to both.

you wont have 2 overflows, the water will be PUMPED out of the sump to the refugium, and the overflow will bring it back.

[20 20]

One thing you could do is to set the fuge higher than the sump. Then either only use one pump, in the sump, and have it's return split so some goes to the fuge, and the fuge overflows back to the sump, or have a two pumps, both in the sump, one returning to the tank, the other pumping to the fuge, which again overflows to the sump.

[logans_daddy]

Hi

I had this exact same problem. The gravity soultion is great unless you have to feed your skimmer with a pump. My tank overflows into a sump, pumps into a skimmer, drains into fuge, and pumps into tank. i simply installed an electric float switch in my fuge so that when the water gets to a certain level the return pump will turn off for a second and the fuge balances itself. the problem is that the pump goes off for a fraction of a second anywhere from 5-10 times an hour. you dont notice it and there are no ill effects on the system but im not sure how the pump is going to hold up to this long term. so far its been like this for over a year with no obvious effects on the pump.

shawn

[dmdj]

So 20 20, does that mean I should a second overflow box? for the refugium? Currently, the fuge is above the level of the sump.

[areze]

heres a diagram of 1 way, as I said, every time you pump from 1 tank to another, you should have an overflow it back. you can overflow as many times as you want, but you cant have a single tank with a pump in, or pump out, you need to have an overflow

[dmdj]

Thanks for the diagram areze. I guess that would be my best option given my situation.

[dmdj]

...although there's only one bulkhead entrance in my sump.

[Frick-n-Frags]

and you can also see how a single pump with a valve-manifold, one valve per branch, could take care of both, or several tanks, just by opening and closing all the valves to dial the individual rates to the tanks (like fuge maybe partly closed for less flow than DT)

that, or a branch off the DT return with a valve to regulate how much overflow goes into the fuge

or for an above-feeder fuge, overflow the fuge water into the DT after pumping it up from the sump, then the DT's water and the fuge water all go through/down the dt overflow(can have the returns branched so part of the main flow just goes to the DT but it all still goes down the dt overflow)

plus all of what has been mentioned.

[sirreal63]

Originally posted by dmdj
Thanks for the diagram areze. I guess that would be my best option given my situation.

Agreed and an excellent diagram.

[areze]

Originally posted by dmdj
...although there's only one bulkhead entrance in my sump.

what do you mean 1 bulkhead entrance? you can use an submersible pump for the fuge, mag 1.5 would probably be a good choice, or even a cheap rio/maxijet. should be negligable heat added. the return can just be sent over the side of the sump. I would even suggest against drilling the tank for this purpose, I dont like to put any unneeded holes in anything.