Is it feasable to pump top-off water 50 feet horizontally?

[20 20]

My 125 gallon is on one end of the basement (the finished half), but my plumbing (water, sink, drain, etc) is on the other end of the unfinished half. Distance is about 50 feet. Right now I lug buckets of RO/DI water to the top off container I have in back of the tank, and have a float switch in the sump to control the top off via a powerhead in the top off container. I had considered running a water line to the finished side of the basement, but there's no drain, so I'd have to install a sink with an ejection pump for the waste water (basement is loooow). I've ruled that out, as that wouldn't go very well in the finished basement, nor with the wife. I had come to terms with the lugging of buckets.

Not sure why, but today the thought of putting the top off container by the existing sink and running the hose from the top off container 50 feet to the sump hit me. I could then set up an auto fill of the top off container, and forget having to keep filling it. I could run the hose through the ceiling and down the wall behind the tank, I could hide that fairly easily. I'd also have to run an electric extension cord/line of some kind from the top off switch in the sump to the pump in the top off container in the other side of the basement, but that would be easy to do and hide also.

Would a decent powerhead be powerful enough to pump that far? Maybe 4 feet up, 50ish feet over, 8 feet down. Maybe a maxijet 1200? Would I need a larger pump? Is this a silly idea? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

[trmiv]

A Litermeter could handle that. No way a Maxi-jet could.

[LobsterOfJustice]

If you are going 4 up, 50 over, 8 down, you have the container higher than the sump. You will end up siphoning the top off resivoir dry the first time it cuts on.

[reefer1024]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
If you are going 4 up, 50 over, 8 down, you have the container higher than the sump. You will end up siphoning the top of resivoir dry the first time it cuts on.

Aaaaargh gravity be a harsh mistress.

[CyclistMT]

Originally posted by reefer1024
Aaaaargh gravity be a harsh mistress.

LMAO! We really need more of this kind of humor on RC. I busted a gut when I read this. And I read it with a pirate accent in my head to boot! Thank you reefer1024 for making my day. (Yes, I'm a very simple man )


20 20, have you thought about running the output of your RO to your top off container instead? I'm running the output of my RO/DI about 30 horizontal feet to my top off container under house pressure. Works like a charm.

[GSMguy]

the tunze osmolator can handle a good amount of head 25-35 feet im not sure about 50 feet

[landlord]

Just to chime in since I am in the midst of this. I just finished the plumbing for an auto top off that brings RO/DI water from the basement resevior up 10-11 vertical feet and 22 feet horizontally. The pump is a Mag7 mounted external to the resevoir. By the time it pumps through all that PVC the flow coming into the sump is highly reduced, which works out since I do not want a gush into my sump when the water top off turns on. In the back of my mind I keep thinking that this will prematurely wear on the pump. Meanwhile, no more buckets of water. Yeah!

--landlord

[Mishap]

pumping horizontally is pretty simple. For every 10 feet of horizontal length it is 1 foot of actual head pressure. So at 4 over, 50 across and 8 down, you would be looking at roughly 9 foot of head. The siphon is a good point though, check valves would be a good option then.

[20 20]

Thanks for all the replies, lots to think about. The siphon issue I hadn't thought of. As far as running the output of the ro/di to the water container where is sits now (by the tank), that won't work for me. I need ro/di water by the sink to mix salt water. I want to have the container close to the sink so not only can I drain the waste ro/di water in the sink, but so I can use the container to not only feed the sump with a pump, but so I can easily get ro/di water from it into the salt water mixing container.

[MSU Fan]

If the "gravity" effect is an issue, just put a pipe in your sump (just needs to be larger than the pipe you are supplying water with), and have the top-off water dump into that pipe.

The top-off water then falls into the pipe and makes it into sump/tank/etc, but then gravity will force the water to fall back to the top off container (pending check valve).

[owenb01]

msu--catahoulas kick @$$

[HDAlien]

I would vote for using the Litermeter for that kind of set up.

[jdieck]

This is a typical application were a doser pump (positive displacement) will be the way to go. It will also prevent siphoning.

[mille239]

I have my RO/DI unit in my laundry room over 30 ft. from my reef. the normal output of my RO/DI (house water pressure) has no problem pumping through 1/4" line 6 ft. up to the attic, 35 ft actoss the house, then down 6ft to the top-off reservoir under my reef, hooked to a float switch so it doesn't over fill. (I then use a dosing pump connected to a float switch to draw water out of the reservoir to the sump)

I have the output of the RO/DI unit Tee'd in the laundry room so I can have a supply of RO water in the laundry room as well, where I make and store my fresh salt water.
You shouldn't need a pump to get the water 50 ft, and I'd leave your top off by the tank.
hope this helps.

[20 20]

Originally posted by mille239
I have my RO/DI unit in my laundry room over 30 ft. from my reef. the normal output of my RO/DI (house water pressure) has no problem pumping through 1/4" line 6 ft. up to the attic, 35 ft actoss the house, then down 6ft to the top-off reservoir under my reef, hooked to a float switch so it doesn't over fill. (I then use a dosing pump connected to a float switch to draw water out of the reservoir to the sump)

I have the output of the RO/DI unit Tee'd in the laundry room so I can have a supply of RO water in the laundry room as well, where I make and store my fresh salt water.
You shouldn't need a pump to get the water 50 ft, and I'd leave your top off by the tank.
hope this helps.

I hadn't thought about 't-ing' the output of the ro/di, that's a good idea. A couple of questions, though. The float switch in the top-off container, how do you have it hooked up to control the flow? Are you using a solinoid, if so where in the hookup do you have it installed? Are you using manual valves on each of the outputs after the Tee to control which path the water takes, or some kind of automated setup?

[mille239]

I have a float valve (typical kent marine) (I'm sorry I said float switch earlier) at the top of my top off container under the reef tank. connected to about 45' of line which is connected to the RO output. there is a tee with another float valve on the salt mixing container next to the RO/DI unit. (I didn't draw it, but I put a bulkhead at the bottom of the mixing container as well with a valve for draining the mixing container) here's a quick sketch.

[mille239]

no solenoids, I do have a manual valve before each of the float valves in case I need to take one or the other off line, but otherwise, this setup keeps both containers full constantly.

[mille239]

oh, here's a shot of the float valve (from marine depot) in my top-off container

[bonerfortuna]

jdieck I was thinking the same . Have you actually used this method, its easy enough to test otherwise. Thanks Peter

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Mishap
pumping horizontally is pretty simple. For every 10 feet of horizontal length it is 1 foot of actual head pressure. So at 4 over, 50 across and 8 down, you would be looking at roughly 9 foot of head. The siphon is a good point though, check valves would be a good option then.

Thats completely not true.



Head is based on a variety of things, and is nowhere near that simple. Without knowing plumbing dimensions, etc, theres no way to tell.

Even assuming that, you're not doing the calculation right. 4+5-8 does not equal 9.

Use a peristaltic pump. No siphon issues, can push that no problem, and are available for about $50.

[20 20]

Heh, as with all things reefing, there's multiple ways to do this. Just need to pick one!

mille239, I had always assumed that when using an RO/DI unit, that to shut off flow the flow 'into' the ro/di needed to be closed off. It looks like you've got the output of the ro/di unit getting shut off, in this case on both outputs of the Tee. I thought that if you did that, that the water would keep flowing through the waste line of the ro/di unit. Do you continually have waste water being created, even if not ro/di water is flowing to one of the containers? I'm guessing not since that's how you've got it set up, but figured I'd better ask.

Rich, what would be a good peristaltic pump to get, if I decide to go that way? I assume they can be controlled by a float switch, meaning I'd need to run an electrical cord/line from the float switch in the sump to the pump in the ro/di container which would be on the other side of the basement, right?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally posted by 20 20
mille239, I had always assumed that when using an RO/DI unit, that to shut off flow the flow 'into' the ro/di needed to be closed off. It looks like you've got the output of the ro/di unit getting shut off, in this case on both outputs of the Tee. I thought that if you did that, that the water would keep flowing through the waste line of the ro/di unit. Do you continually have waste water being created, even if not ro/di water is flowing to one of the containers? I'm guessing not since that's how you've got it set up, but figured I'd better ask.

Good point. Mille's way will only work if your RODI has an Auto Shutoff Valve installed (ASOV).

[Roy G. Biv]

Mine goes out of my RODI, splits, one goes to the basement sump. The other goes from my basement, up one floor, through the attic, and down to my tank... Just from water pressure.

[20 20]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
Good point. Mille's way will only work if your RODI has an Auto Shutoff Valve installed (ASOV).

How does an ASOV work?

[jdieck]

Originally posted by bonerfortuna
jdieck I was thinking the same . Have you actually used this method, its easy enough to test otherwise. Thanks Peter

Yes a litter meter will do well although if you can install a reservoir close to the point of use (50ft away from the RO/DI) millie's method will also work and will be cheapre.
You need an ASOV valve if you have a reservoir with a float regardless of were you install it.

An ASOV works by closing the waste water when the product line is clossed, otherwise when the float closes the waste water will continue to flow all the time even when the RO/DI is not producing.

20 20:

An ASOV works by measuring the difference in the pressure of the inlet line against the output line.
When the product output line is open the pressure differential equals the inlet pressure (because the ouput pressure is zero). As the product line closes the pressure in the product line starts to increase so the diferential between the inlet and outlet starst to be less and less. When the ouput pressure reaches about 75 to 80 % of the pressure in the inlet (which indicates the product line has been closed or plugged), ASOV will trigger and close the inlet to the membrane. ASOV = Auto Shut Off Valve
With and ASOV you do not have to be there to close the inlet valve every time a reservoir is full.