Seriously - I have no skimmer...isn't that ok?

[goldmaniac]

Alright, I'm sure I'll hear lots of lecturing about the necessity of a good skimmer in a reef system, and I KNOW why it's so important, but I think I have a setup that has worked for me so far, and, other than nitrates, can someone tell me other advantages to skimming and why I need one?

Facts of the case:

for 3 weeks now, nitrates < 10. This is after I've had three big tangs either die of old age (7 years) or jumped the tank in the past 6 months, and I've stopped the huge daily nori feedings.
RIP:
10" Naso
8" Sohal
4.5" Purple

Last water change must have been 4+ months ago.

I currently have 4-year old and a 5 month old kids, and the tank's been on autopilot for the 2nd time in 4 years, going on 6 months again. Family priorities have kept me away from serious husbandry. I'm ready to get back into maintenance improvements, again.

120 gallon tank, 2'x2'x4', reef safe fish, and a few (3) soft corals, that's it. I'm ready to get into more corals after I clean up the tank after this hiatus. I don't intend to get into SPS's for a long while.

50 gallon refugium:

My external overflow dumps water into 100 micron socks into the 1st section of the 'fuge and I change socks 2 times weekly, and I try to change more often.

Caulerpa Prolifera in the middle section that's about 24"x16". a nice, big lawn of caulerpa on 3"- 4" of Kent's BioSubstrate. I have a 24" bulb (either 55 or 90 watt, i forget) over the Caulerpa. I think it's a 90 watt.

dual Rio 4900's (yeah, I know, Rio's, jeez) in the 3rd section pumping what I'm estimating about a combined 1600 gph back into the tank. Each Rio has a SCWD on it, totalling four alternating (2 and 2) returns.

A single Koralia 4 that I move around the display tank about every 2 weeks.

1/2 inch of cosmetic substrate in the display. About 100 lbs of live rock.

I cheaped out and last year went with an Odyssea hood, with (2) 175 watt HQI 20k's and two acitinic 92 watt'ers, PC's.

top-off about 5 gallons about every 5 days with RO/DI.
for water changes, I use Red Sea Reef salt.

no skimmer
I kalk sometimes, rarely, actually.
no CA reactor
no UV sterilization
no nothing. filter socks, circulation, and caulerpa. that's it.

The water is a little green from the Caulerpa, but otherwise, It's practically a non-maintence tank.

Flame angel
flame hawk
6-line wrasse
citron goby
Rainford's goby
green mandarin
some chromis
cinnamon clown
a few big brittle and serpant stars
lots of various hermits and clams to clean everything up.
yellow tang who is a huge coward and hides if you get close, a worthless fish. What's the point of having a fish that hides when you get near the tank? heh. I ramble. sorry.

Anyone see a problem with adding soft corals, mushrooms, zoa's, or maybe a couple hardy LPS corals?

I KNOW I NEED TO UPGRADE LIGHTING. Looking for 250 watt metal halides.

I really want some input on this... The tank is fine on autopilot. I toss some carbon into the overflow if people are coming over, and the green tint from the caulerpa disappears.

What am I missing?

thanks Everyone.

[goldmaniac]

CORRECTION:

"lots of various hermits and SNAILS to clean everything up"

sorry

[vessxpress1]

[i] [/B]

No such thing. I know this is going to sound bad on a forum but can I ask what you're really looking for in a response here?

These types of threads have been posted a hundred times if they've been posted once. You'll get plenty of positive feedback from people that don't want to buy a skimmer.
In the mean time, people don't just spend 400, 800, 1000+ on a skimmer just for the fun of it. It's probably one of the most valuable pieces of equipment you can own. Aside from taking the bad stuff out of the water before it breaks down, they infuse a lot of oxygen into the tank for the inhabitants, which also helps keep your pH up. They also remove chemicals from the chemical warfare going on between corals. If you do regular water changes, maybe not as big a deal, but if you're going to push them, like you have, I'd suggest at least having a skimmer and running carbon full time.

I'd get a skimmer before worrying about the lighting.

[goldmaniac]

thanks -

I'm looking for other reasons to have a skimmer other than nitrate reduction. Chemical warfare between corals, and removing chemicals out of the water column, is something I hadn't thought of.

thanks -

[marinelife]

I do not have one on my tank. My Acropora corals have lots of colors and my clams are huge

[goldmaniac]

Originally posted by marinelife
I do not have one on my tank. My Acropora corals have lots of colors and my clams are huge

and you have a decent # of fish in your tank, as well?

[marinelife]

Critters: Hippo Tang (donated to me by a friend in 2005), Hippo Tang (purchased 1995), 3 Green Chromis (purchased 1/2001), Orange Shoulder Tang (April 27, 2007), 2 6-line Wrasse (male and female purchased 1/2006), Chocolate Tang (May 2007), Red Sea Emperor Angel (June 14 2007), Sailfin Tang (May 2007), Flame Fin Tomini Tang (May 2007), Coral Beauty (May 2007), several Serpent Stars, few Hermit Crabs, few snails, Variety of mushrooms, Acroporas, Montiporas, Button Polyps, Turbinaria, Montipora foliosa, Fire Coral, Derasa Clam( 5/2001), Crocea Clam (3/2006), Tear Drop Maxima (5/2006) some Macroalgae, other SPS Corals and more. There is also a few other crabs and items growing on the rocks.

[G.SMITHII]

every tank that i have ever seen that made me gasp, or go I WANT THAT all have rediculas skimmers.

that just about was enough of an answer for me.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by goldmaniac
thanks -

I'm looking for other reasons to have a skimmer other than nitrate reduction. Chemical warfare between corals, and removing chemicals out of the water column, is something I hadn't thought of.

thanks -

To me, there really isn't any other reason. If you're doing fine without one, just leave it. As you've already stated, you know the benefits of having a skimmer, yet you chose to go skimmerless. And it is working out for you. I don't see a reason to justify anything if it works already. Now, I too know the benefits of a skimmerm, but I still run without one. I wouldn't complain if all of the sudden an ASM G3 fell in to my lap, either. But my tank is doing fine so I'm not going to change it.

[Agu]

None of my nanos have skimmers now. Had one tank with a skimmer and didn't really see any benefit in comparison to the other tanks so I took it off.

That said skimmers on tanks can reduce maint, give you an extra level of backup if something goes wrong, and are really cool to impress other reefers if it's a very expensive model.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Well I think you said it yourself... you lost your big fish, feed less, still have nitrates, and have 3 soft corals. I want more fish, I want to feed more, I want no nitrates, and I want a tank full of SPS corals.

[rickytikki]

Not to be cliche, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[wshive]

I'm a big fan of keeping things as natural as possible, so I understand the desire to stay away from a skimmer. You don't have to worry about the extra power, heat, and noise. But I think it does mean you have to test your water with regularity to make sure tank parameters are in a range you're comfortable with. You also have to be more vigilant as to what's going on in your tank. In otherwords, I think going skimmerless is totally viable, but it takes more consistent maintenance and is less of an "autopilot" way to maintain a tank.

That aside, probably the biggest advantage of running a skimmer (other than consistent water clarity) is if somehting dies, especially if you're away on vacation, you have a good shot of keeping a full tank crash at bay. Skimmerless, your LR & LS probably won't be able to keep up with the decay.

Also, nitrates may not be that bad for fish, but they're still not good, and they really should be zero if you focus on the long term health of your fish. Of course, if you watch your feeding and stocking levels, this may never be an issue.

[stevenw56]

A skimmer is natural. Ever see all the foam on the beach during rough sea's?

Personally I couldn't handle green water as you say you have. I like my water to look as though there isn't even any water in the tank.

How do you know your recent losses were do to old age? Many have had fish older than 7 years including myself.

[MikePowell]

okay off topic, but in the little mermaid the original tale from a long ways back, it is said that the foam on the ocean is dead mermaids. (i know thats not true but when stevenw56 wrote that it just reminded me of it)

[goldmaniac]

Originally posted by stevenw56
A skimmer is natural. Ever see all the foam on the beach during rough sea's?

Personally I couldn't handle green water as you say you have. I like my water to look as though there isn't even any water in the tank.

How do you know your recent losses were do to old age? Many have had fish older than 7 years including myself.

I will correct myself in my 'old age' claim -

I am aware that many fish have live 20+ years in salt water tanks. Mine did not. Therefore, I cannot say that it truly was old age that killed my fish.

However, I know that I am always learning more about keeping salt tanks, and back when I purchased these tangs that died after 6,7 years, I still had a wet/dry system, and I did not have a system that was keeping nitrates under 30-60. Who knows what other parameters were also WAY off at times. This was all before I started focusing on natural reef setups.

So, due to my poor husbandry back in '01,'02, etc, I need to shorten the life expectancy of any fish I had back then. I figure they made it thru the hard times, but probably not unscathed, and some damage was done. But I'm doing much better now.

G.

[marinelife]

No skimmer and clear water here. I have a hippo tang that is over 12 years old, only been in a skimmed tank for about 2 years of his life. We are not the ocean and can not do everything the ocean does, with our small boxes we have a variety of ways to get to the same goal.

[mike888705]

I have run tanks both with skimmers and without. Never had a problem with water clarity on the tank without a skimmer, but a lot of people use skimmers and there must be a reason for that…

[pikachusalad]

All you have to do is look inside the collection cup to know the reason for using a skimmer (and if looking doesn't do it, take a good sniff...)

There is yucky crap in your water - a good skimmer takes it out - what more reason do you want?

[marinelife]

But what is that yuchy crap?
How do you know it is crap?

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by pikachusalad
There is yucky crap in your water - a good skimmer takes it out - what more reason do you want?

The same can be said about water changes

[xtm]

I have been skimmerless for about 2 weeks now because I'm re-doing my sump and (honestly) my SPS have insane PE that I have never seen before. I don't know if it has anything to do with the system running no skimmer but I have not changed anything else in the tank. My huge green Montipora Capricornis has regained its deep coloration and the Milleporas have become hairy again.

Who knows, maybe I might just retire my ASM G3 for good.

On the other hand, Skimmers DO help with dissolved oxygen.

[stevenw56]

Originally posted by xtm
I have been skimmerless for about 2 weeks now because I'm re-doing my sump and (honestly) my SPS have insane PE that I have never seen before. I don't know if it has anything to do with the system running no skimmer but I have not changed anything else in the tank. My huge green Montipora Capricornis has regained its deep coloration and the Milleporas have become hairy again.

Who knows, maybe I might just retire my ASM G3 for good.

On the other hand, Skimmers DO help with dissolved oxygen.

interesting

[TWallace]

Originally posted by pikachusalad
All you have to do is look inside the collection cup to know the reason for using a skimmer (and if looking doesn't do it, take a good sniff...)

If that's your reasoning, then you've provided me a good argument towards not using a skimmer. Mine never produced much skimmate at all, and it didn't stink badly. I've had a Remora (really poor performance) and an ASM Mini G with gate valve mod (better, but still didn't produce much). At the same time, my nitrates were always less than 1ppm, usually 0. I removed my ASM skimmer from my tank about 6 weeks ago and haven't noticed a difference in the tank yet. Nitrates are still under 1ppm, water is still clear. Argument resolved for me.

I do have a refugium in my system, which I think does a good job of nitrate removal. I keep 5 clams, 4 of them over a year, lots of SPS (mostly acropora and montipora), xenia, toadstools, zoanthids 8 fish (5 of them over a year) and feed fairly heavily.

I don't run carbon, UV, ozone or a skimmer. My sump contains 2 heaters and a return pump. I top off with kalkwasser using an auto top off system.

[kevinohio]

Originally posted by goldmaniac
thanks -

I'm looking for other reasons to have a skimmer other than nitrate reduction. Chemical warfare between corals, and removing chemicals out of the water column, is something I hadn't thought of.

thanks -

What else are you looking for other than to improve water quality? I am not sure what you are searching for here?