Need assistance designing manifold system

gcfiend · 09/13/2007, 12:04 PM

My tank is currently cycling, and at this point all i do is sit and stare at water flow.

I came across this article and thought it would be a better long term solution than more powerheads, but I need some assistance from plumbing gurus to figure out what type\model of pump I will need.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/short.htm

I currently have a 90 gallon with built in overflow (made by all glass aquarium) utilizing the overflow kit of the same brand. This kit states "Handles a flow through rate of 600 GPH" in case this is important.

It drains from a 1 1\4 inch braided tube to a 28 gallon sump. From top of siphon to water level is about 4 feet.

The return travels through a 3\4 braided tube (about 4 feet to bulkhead and another 2 feet to water exit through aY -split loc-line with 2 nozzles)

Return pump is what I believe (bought 2nd hand) is a MAG18.

My goal is to create a manifold system as described in the article with 8-9 heads.

1. Need to know what pump would be give be the best flow without overflowing my overflow.

2. Compress from 3\4 to 1\2 near returns for stronger flow?

3. Any other advise.

Let me know if I'm missing any information you may need.

Thanks in advance.

gcfiend · 09/13/2007, 02:36 PM

I tried to do a little due diligence on my part. Used the head loss calculator.

with my current pump MAG18 - I'm suppose to get

Total losses are 13.56 feet of head pressure, or 5.86 PSI. with a flow rate of 553 GPH. Process took 29 iterations.

Is 533GPH enough flow?

gcfiend · 09/13/2007, 05:06 PM

I guess my two major concerns is either getting too small of a pump (no flow) or too large (I only have one return and am afraid with too big of a pump i would end up flooding - drain flow being less than return)

Sequence Dart? too much?
Mag 18?
Mag 24?

Reefbox · 09/13/2007, 05:16 PM

I have a closed loop manifold on my 125 tank (Sequence Hammerhead @ 5800 gph) and another overflow loop (Eheim 1262 @ 850 gph)that goes through a remote deep sand bed and into a sump.

This is my first ever CLM and I really like the flow and especially not having any powerheads in my tank.

it looks like your overflow (600 gph) will b your limiting factor on your setup.

I don't think i will ever setup anothe tank without a CLM.

The sequence pumps are nice pumps especially since they are low wattage motors.

Fish'InMN · 09/13/2007, 07:02 PM

A number of things to say here:

1. I would recommend heading to the Advanced Section and doing some searching for other manifold threads. You will see that most people use manifolds on a Closed Loops System (CLS or CL), rather than a return. That's not to say it won't work on a return, just that isn't usually done. Like you said, it would be to your advantage to get a larger pump for this job (a manifold), but since it is your return, you are strictly limited to how much your drain can handle. (Bad position to be in, in my opinion, but it can be done.)

2. Reduce the number of T's, or nozzles, to 4 or 6. You will not get enough flow out of 8 outputs using that pump

3. Increase the feed pipe diameter, from 3/4" to 1" minimum. I would even recommend 1.5" pipe to the manifold loop, then 1" for the entire loop, then reduced to 1/2" "nozzles". You have a large tank, don't skimp on plumbing now or you'll have to redo it later when you want to upgrade a pump here or there.

4. Your return will be limited to what your drain can handle, 600gph, which is only 6x turnover. What are your other plans for circulation? You should target 15x minimum for a large tank with a sand-bed, I would recommend trying to hit 20x or more.

My only other suggestion is to try the manifold (with 6 to 8 nozzles) on a closed loop rather than the return, unless you have other plans for additional circulation.

Cheers,
Marty

gcfiend · 09/13/2007, 10:55 PM

So leave my current setup and add a secondary pump manifold closed loop?

Could I place a pipe in my overflow box, over the back of tank and hook up a sequence and then to manifold?

Fish'InMN · 09/13/2007, 11:17 PM

You will have to check whether larger pumps have any trouble with a U-style intake over a tank edge, and also have a plan for priming the pump after maintenance. I have no experience with the sequence series pumps; I am not sure whether they have to be gravity-flooded or can pull their source water.

A good source for closed loop basics is, of course, Melev's site. His application was quite a bit smaller and he didn't use a manifold, but the idea is the same. http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

Cheers,
Marty

PS. A few more links for other visuals. I like pictures better than words.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post10695377

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...3#post10604633

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...53#post9816453

http://www.oceansmotions.com/forum/v...d93691876debde

Alright, too much drooling for one night...

Reefbox · 09/14/2007, 07:11 AM

Is it possible to drill the tank?

09/13/2007, 12:04 PM	#1
gcfiend Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 546	Need assistance designing manifold system My tank is currently cycling, and at this point all i do is sit and stare at water flow. I came across this article and thought it would be a better long term solution than more powerheads, but I need some assistance from plumbing gurus to figure out what type\model of pump I will need. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/short.htm I currently have a 90 gallon with built in overflow (made by all glass aquarium) utilizing the overflow kit of the same brand. This kit states "Handles a flow through rate of 600 GPH" in case this is important. It drains from a 1 1\4 inch braided tube to a 28 gallon sump. From top of siphon to water level is about 4 feet. The return travels through a 3\4 braided tube (about 4 feet to bulkhead and another 2 feet to water exit through aY -split loc-line with 2 nozzles) Return pump is what I believe (bought 2nd hand) is a MAG18. My goal is to create a manifold system as described in the article with 8-9 heads. 1. Need to know what pump would be give be the best flow without overflowing my overflow. 2. Compress from 3\4 to 1\2 near returns for stronger flow? 3. Any other advise. Let me know if I'm missing any information you may need. Thanks in advance. __________________ Chris Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. - B.M.

09/13/2007, 02:36 PM	#2
gcfiend Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 546	I tried to do a little due diligence on my part. Used the head loss calculator. with my current pump MAG18 - I'm suppose to get Total losses are 13.56 feet of head pressure, or 5.86 PSI. with a flow rate of 553 GPH. Process took 29 iterations. Is 533GPH enough flow? __________________ Chris Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. - B.M.

09/13/2007, 05:06 PM	#3
gcfiend Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 546	I guess my two major concerns is either getting too small of a pump (no flow) or too large (I only have one return and am afraid with too big of a pump i would end up flooding - drain flow being less than return) Sequence Dart? too much? Mag 18? Mag 24? __________________ Chris Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. - B.M.

09/13/2007, 05:16 PM	#4
Reefbox Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Butler, PA Posts: 1,045	I have a closed loop manifold on my 125 tank (Sequence Hammerhead @ 5800 gph) and another overflow loop (Eheim 1262 @ 850 gph)that goes through a remote deep sand bed and into a sump. This is my first ever CLM and I really like the flow and especially not having any powerheads in my tank. it looks like your overflow (600 gph) will b your limiting factor on your setup. I don't think i will ever setup anothe tank without a CLM. The sequence pumps are nice pumps especially since they are low wattage motors. __________________ Jason

09/13/2007, 10:55 PM	#6
gcfiend Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 546	So leave my current setup and add a secondary pump manifold closed loop? Could I place a pipe in my overflow box, over the back of tank and hook up a sequence and then to manifold? __________________ Chris Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. - B.M.

09/13/2007, 07:02 PM	#5
Fish'InMN Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: MN Posts: 398	A number of things to say here: 1. I would recommend heading to the Advanced Section and doing some searching for other manifold threads. You will see that most people use manifolds on a Closed Loops System (CLS or CL), rather than a return. That's not to say it won't work on a return, just that isn't usually done. Like you said, it would be to your advantage to get a larger pump for this job (a manifold), but since it is your return, you are strictly limited to how much your drain can handle. (Bad position to be in, in my opinion, but it can be done.) 2. Reduce the number of T's, or nozzles, to 4 or 6. You will not get enough flow out of 8 outputs using that pump 3. Increase the feed pipe diameter, from 3/4" to 1" minimum. I would even recommend 1.5" pipe to the manifold loop, then 1" for the entire loop, then reduced to 1/2" "nozzles". You have a large tank, don't skimp on plumbing now or you'll have to redo it later when you want to upgrade a pump here or there. 4. Your return will be limited to what your drain can handle, 600gph, which is only 6x turnover. What are your other plans for circulation? You should target 15x minimum for a large tank with a sand-bed, I would recommend trying to hit 20x or more. My only other suggestion is to try the manifold (with 6 to 8 nozzles) on a closed loop rather than the return, unless you have other plans for additional circulation. Cheers, Marty

09/13/2007, 11:17 PM	#7
Fish'InMN Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: MN Posts: 398	You will have to check whether larger pumps have any trouble with a U-style intake over a tank edge, and also have a plan for priming the pump after maintenance. I have no experience with the sequence series pumps; I am not sure whether they have to be gravity-flooded or can pull their source water. A good source for closed loop basics is, of course, Melev's site. His application was quite a bit smaller and he didn't use a manifold, but the idea is the same. http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html Cheers, Marty PS. A few more links for other visuals. I like pictures better than words. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post10695377 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...3#post10604633 http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...53#post9816453 http://www.oceansmotions.com/forum/v...d93691876debde Alright, too much drooling for one night... Last edited by Fish'InMN; 09/13/2007 at 11:24 PM.

09/14/2007, 07:11 AM	#8
Reefbox Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Butler, PA Posts: 1,045	Is it possible to drill the tank? __________________ Jason