Why exactly did I buy Reef Crystals instead of IO?

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 02:49 PM

I was under the impression I was spending the extra cash so I wouldn't have to supplement as much. Well, freshly made salt water at 1.026 using reef crystals:

10.56dKH
320ppm Ca
1125ppm Mg

Basically the exact same readings I get with IO at that same salinity. What's up with that?

woodycb · 09/16/2007, 03:10 PM

Thanks for the post. I was thinking about switching to RC, since I am going to have to dose anyways I am going to stick with IO

Dr Begalke · 09/16/2007, 03:28 PM

I mix 50% IO with 50% oceanic... no supplementation needed.

mile sq. reefer · 09/16/2007, 03:46 PM

Dr Begalke, can you please post test results for water made with your mix. Thanks, Mile

sirjohn · 09/16/2007, 03:48 PM

Well, that's not good. I just bought 2 buckets of RC for the same reason...

Ehgemus · 09/16/2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Begalke
I mix 50% IO with 50% oceanic... no supplementation needed.

How does that help?

SlowCobra · 09/16/2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Harold Edwards
How does that help?

Each contains higher parts of certain elements. Mixing the 2 results in NOT having to supplement anything. I do the same thing.

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 04:13 PM

What does Oceanic Ca and Mg run at?

aquarius77 · 09/16/2007, 04:18 PM

I mix my rc with coralife, it says its high in ca and mag but i have not tested since i started doing this.

SD,
my mag has tested much lower than that in fresh rc consistantly over a 4 bucket span.

Ehgemus · 09/16/2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowCobra
Each contains higher parts of certain elements. Mixing the 2 results in NOT having to supplement anything. I do the same thing.

yes I know that but why not just use 100% RC, you are not saving much money be mixing.

LobsterOfJustice · 09/16/2007, 06:08 PM

I mix IO and Oceanic 50-50 as well. Mg is a little low, but the Ca:Alk balances out to about 425:9.0ish.

virginiadiver69 · 09/16/2007, 06:16 PM

It would seem to me that just dosing what you need would be just as laborious as mixing two different salts together. Talk about going around your ^ss to get to your elbow. To each their own.

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 06:21 PM

Yeah, I'm really not interested in mixing salts. I know exactly how much Ca and Mg to add to IO. No biggie. For some reason I was just under the impression that RC was closer to the levels I want than IO.

jopo43 · 09/16/2007, 06:25 PM

made the same mistake once

LobsterOfJustice · 09/16/2007, 06:28 PM

Mixing the salts isnt hard at all. You've got your rubbermaid brute full of RODI, and instead of adding 15 cups IO, you add 7.5 IO and 7.5 Oceanic. Doesnt take any extra time or effort.

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 06:45 PM

Frankly, the reason for my post was that I thought there would be *some* difference between IO and RC, not how to achieve the desired levels

aquarius77 · 09/16/2007, 07:29 PM

There is a difference, its just a few dollars...

SlowCobra · 09/16/2007, 07:32 PM

So buying EXTRA supplements vs just buying 2 different kinds of salts is "like going around your *** to get to your elbow"? Umm yeah ok. Exactly what you said... To each their own. The salt cost is about the same per container. You get twice as much salt and don't have to add any EXTRA supplementation. All you are using is salt.

spleen93 · 09/16/2007, 09:01 PM

Your results with RC seem to be lower than what's historically reported.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ystals+calcium

Spleen

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 09:19 PM

Well, I'll happily make some up at work with calibrated scales if someone could tell me how many g/mL I should mix, then test....

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 09:23 PM

I at least know my alk test kit is spot on, against a standard.

The other tests havegiven me no reason to doubt them.

spleen93 · 09/16/2007, 09:33 PM

I'm not implying anything - just making a comment that your numbers are lower than what many people have reported in the past. However, there have been reports of varying parameters before with RC so who knows? Just to make sure that we have all bases covered, your SG of 1.026 is confirmed, yes? (lab grade hydrometer or reference calibrated refractometer?) Low SG will obviously affect the parameters. Of course, I probably don't need to remind a biochemist about this ...

Spleen

SDguy · 09/16/2007, 09:55 PM

Yes, calibrated refractometer.

I wasn't thinking you were implying anything

Just really would like a g/mL formula to make a standard with...

spleen93 · 09/17/2007, 01:21 AM

Maybe posting in the Reef Chemistry forum might give you more input. Just a thought.

Spleen

Dr Begalke · 09/17/2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Harold Edwards
yes I know that but why not just use 100% RC, you are not saving much money be mixing.

Sorry, I should have explained it better..

Oceanic runs high in Ca, low in alk. IO runs low in Ca, relatively high in alk... if you use them 50/50, you get a balanced saltwater as a result.

I will test my next batch and post the results.

09/16/2007, 02:49 PM	#1
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Why exactly did I buy Reef Crystals instead of IO? I was under the impression I was spending the extra cash so I wouldn't have to supplement as much. Well, freshly made salt water at 1.026 using reef crystals: 10.56dKH 320ppm Ca 1125ppm Mg Basically the exact same readings I get with IO at that same salinity. What's up with that? __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 03:10 PM	#2
woodycb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N.W. Ohio Posts: 785	Thanks for the post. I was thinking about switching to RC, since I am going to have to dose anyways I am going to stick with IO __________________ We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

09/16/2007, 03:48 PM	#5
sirjohn Feeding Frenzied Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: miami, fl Posts: 516	Well, that's not good. I just bought 2 buckets of RC for the same reason... __________________ "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." -- Ronald Reagan Current Tank Info: Elos 160XL (200 gal) -- Mixed Reef

09/16/2007, 04:13 PM	#8
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	What does Oceanic Ca and Mg run at? __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 06:08 PM	#11
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	I mix IO and Oceanic 50-50 as well. Mg is a little low, but the Ca:Alk balances out to about 425:9.0ish. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

09/16/2007, 03:28 PM	#3
Dr Begalke Moved On Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: OH Posts: 246	I mix 50% IO with 50% oceanic... no supplementation needed.

09/16/2007, 03:46 PM	#4
mile sq. reefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 2,045	Dr Begalke, can you please post test results for water made with your mix. Thanks, Mile

09/16/2007, 04:18 PM	#9
aquarius77 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Highland, Il Posts: 2,198	I mix my rc with coralife, it says its high in ca and mag but i have not tested since i started doing this. SD, my mag has tested much lower than that in fresh rc consistantly over a 4 bucket span.

09/16/2007, 06:16 PM	#12
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	It would seem to me that just dosing what you need would be just as laborious as mixing two different salts together. Talk about going around your ^ss to get to your elbow. To each their own. __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator

09/16/2007, 06:21 PM	#13
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Yeah, I'm really not interested in mixing salts. I know exactly how much Ca and Mg to add to IO. No biggie. For some reason I was just under the impression that RC was closer to the levels I want than IO. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 06:25 PM	#14
jopo43 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Crawfordsville, IN Posts: 93	made the same mistake once

09/16/2007, 06:28 PM	#15
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	Mixing the salts isnt hard at all. You've got your rubbermaid brute full of RODI, and instead of adding 15 cups IO, you add 7.5 IO and 7.5 Oceanic. Doesnt take any extra time or effort. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

09/16/2007, 06:45 PM	#16
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Frankly, the reason for my post was that I thought there would be some difference between IO and RC, not how to achieve the desired levels __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 07:29 PM	#17
aquarius77 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Highland, Il Posts: 2,198	There is a difference, its just a few dollars...

09/16/2007, 07:32 PM	#18
SlowCobra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 3,079	So buying EXTRA supplements vs just buying 2 different kinds of salts is "like going around your *** to get to your elbow"? Umm yeah ok. Exactly what you said... To each their own. The salt cost is about the same per container. You get twice as much salt and don't have to add any EXTRA supplementation. All you are using is salt.

09/16/2007, 09:01 PM	#19
spleen93 crabby hermit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: somewhere at the end of the rainbow Posts: 1,363	Your results with RC seem to be lower than what's historically reported. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ystals+calcium Spleen __________________ Spleen "Put that in your Mag Drive and smoke it." - jnarowe "Beware of the banter" - mpoletti "Now I know that some things are just out of our control and we should enjoy the good parts as much as we can." - pookstreet

09/16/2007, 09:19 PM	#20
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Well, I'll happily make some up at work with calibrated scales if someone could tell me how many g/mL I should mix, then test.... __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 09:23 PM	#21
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	I at least know my alk test kit is spot on, against a standard. The other tests havegiven me no reason to doubt them. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/16/2007, 09:33 PM	#22
spleen93 crabby hermit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: somewhere at the end of the rainbow Posts: 1,363	I'm not implying anything - just making a comment that your numbers are lower than what many people have reported in the past. However, there have been reports of varying parameters before with RC so who knows? Just to make sure that we have all bases covered, your SG of 1.026 is confirmed, yes? (lab grade hydrometer or reference calibrated refractometer?) Low SG will obviously affect the parameters. Of course, I probably don't need to remind a biochemist about this ... Spleen __________________ Spleen "Put that in your Mag Drive and smoke it." - jnarowe "Beware of the banter" - mpoletti "Now I know that some things are just out of our control and we should enjoy the good parts as much as we can." - pookstreet Last edited by spleen93; 09/16/2007 at 09:40 PM.

09/16/2007, 09:55 PM	#23
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	Yes, calibrated refractometer. I wasn't thinking you were implying anything Just really would like a g/mL formula to make a standard with... __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

09/17/2007, 01:21 AM	#24
spleen93 crabby hermit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: somewhere at the end of the rainbow Posts: 1,363	Maybe posting in the Reef Chemistry forum might give you more input. Just a thought. Spleen __________________ Spleen "Put that in your Mag Drive and smoke it." - jnarowe "Beware of the banter" - mpoletti "Now I know that some things are just out of our control and we should enjoy the good parts as much as we can." - pookstreet