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Unread 09/22/2007, 08:58 PM   #1
cajundolphin
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can I have corals in my tank?

Hi, I am new to this and am wanting to keep some simple corals in my tank. I just want maybe some polyps and shrooms to add decor and kinda start me out learning. I have 2 damsels and a percula clown now. My tank set up is: 55gal, penn-plax cascade 700 canister filter, maxi-jet 1200, super skimmer w/ needle wheel, regular light hood w/ reef sun 50/50 457mm T-8 15w bulbs. On the box that my bulbs came in it says 6500k trichromatic daylight phosphor and actinic 420 phosphor in same lamp. It also says ideal for reef aquariums, african cichilids and discus fish. I know my bulbs seem low wattage but box and lfs says they will work for polyps and shrooms. My question is....will they? And are my filters and setup okay for them too? Oh and I used crushed coral for bottom and have 55lbs live rock. My tank has been up for a couple of months.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:16 PM   #2
seastar12
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I definately think you should to try to upgrade your lighting system. Oh, and how are the 2 damsels doing together?


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:21 PM   #3
Reefjunkee
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Your lights should be fine for mushrooms and polyps.I have mushrooms and button polyps that thrive in shaded areas of my tank that are very low light.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:21 PM   #4
Adam G
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Sounds like a nice set up you have there. You will need more light to keep shrooms alive. Think about investing in a couple hundred watts of light and you will be ready to add corals.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:31 PM   #5
cajundolphin
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OK, so if I get different bulbs...what do u reccomend and can I just get new bulbs with more wattage for my lighting system that came with my tank or do I have to get completely new system? my damsels have fine so far but I have been reading that they will eventually get aggressive so I guess I need to get rid of them soon.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:40 PM   #6
Noah_Count
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Here's a place to get lighting stuff at a good price if you don't mind going the DIY route http://ahsupply.com/index.html It's relatively easy to build your own and I'm suprised I don't see this site recommended more often. No affiliation here, I'm just a satisfied customer because it's saved me money.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 09:56 PM   #7
cajundolphin
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thank u but I really dont think I can build ANYTHING myself...lol. I am not very good at that kind of thing. Can I just put those bulbs in my fixtures I have now? What wattage do I need?


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:06 PM   #8
Noah_Count
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No, you can't just put the bulbs in the hood you have, if that's what you are asking. The power compacts require a ballast designed for them. Some people do what's called retrofit the ballast, bulbs and all in an existing hood but to me it's just easier to build from the ground up.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:07 PM   #9
clockwurk
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I really think you need more light. Do you only have one bulb? 15 watts total? Thats very little light especially for a 55 gal. The general sure is 3 watts per gallon, and that usually only works w/ soft corals.

You might be able to get away with getting some mushrooms and some polyps, but keep in mind, the majority of coral is photosynthetic, which means they rely most on light for food, so you are taking a risk.

BTW, no matter how tempted you are, do not buy an anemone. They seem like a good idea for your clowns, but they require TONS of light.

As far as buying a new bulb, I dont think this will work because they usually have wattage requirements. I think you might have to get a new lighting system, specifically for saltwater/reef if you want to power that much light.

Sorry. Hope I didnt bum you out


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:15 PM   #10
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Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by Noah_Count
Here's a place to get lighting stuff at a good price if you don't mind going the DIY route http://ahsupply.com/index.html It's relatively easy to build your own and I'm suprised I don't see this site recommended more often. No affiliation here, I'm just a satisfied customer because it's saved me money.
All these lights are complete junk imo. They will keep shrooms and lower light's at best. What's your budget?


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:17 PM   #11
cajundolphin
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I have 2 strips of 15 watt bulbs and I do only want to have polyps and shrooms for at least the next year until I learn alot more about this hobby. But if I need to I will buy a whole new fixture. I just was hoping I didnt have to right now. At least until I can get more experience in all of this.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:22 PM   #12
luke33
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Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by clockwurk
I really think you need more light. Do you only have one bulb? 15 watts total? Thats very little light especially for a 55 gal. The general sure is 3 watts per gallon, and that usually only works w/ soft corals.

You might be able to get away with getting some mushrooms and some polyps, but keep in mind, the majority of coral is photosynthetic, which means they rely most on light for food, so you are taking a risk.

BTW, no matter how tempted you are, do not buy an anemone. They seem like a good idea for your clowns, but they require TONS of light.

As far as buying a new bulb, I dont think this will work because they usually have wattage requirements. I think you might have to get a new lighting system, specifically for saltwater/reef if you want to power that much light.

Sorry. Hope I didnt bum you out
Watts per gallon is complete junk, you cant base anything on that.

No way should you get an anemone, they do need more light....each anemone needs different amounts but you can't provide them right now.

Par is what you need to look at, not wattage.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:22 PM   #13
cajundolphin
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I dont know as far as budget. I could maybe spend a couple hundred on lights if I had to but I figure a whole new fixture is alot more than that. Ive heard they cost thousands for a good system and I am not willing to pay that at this point. I still need more experience before spending that much. I want to make sure I can even do this hobby good enough. I hear so many stories about how hard it is.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:25 PM   #14
cajundolphin
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What is Par?


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:27 PM   #15
Noah_Count
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Re: Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by luke33
All these lights are complete junk imo. They will keep shrooms and lower light's at best. What's your budget?
Well they are not of the caliber of metal halides of course but for PC's they are a good value compared to Coralife and Orbit fixtures. Guess you just have to have a little electrical know how.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:36 PM   #16
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lol, welcome to the great sw hobby bud! lol, anyhow your a perfect candidate for t5's. You can keep anything anywhere you want with t5's. They are perfect for a 55g. Look at a .....dare i say it cuz i don't care for them a ton, tek light. A 4x54w fixture. believe me after this upgrade you will love the hobby. You don't need to spend thousands.....

Here's a good light for you that will allow you to keep anything anywhere.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ode=SunlightT5

Here's a much better light that will get you better growth. Either will work.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...de=Aquactinics


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:41 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by Noah_Count
Well they are not of the caliber of metal halides of course but for PC's they are a good value compared to Coralife and Orbit fixtures. Guess you just have to have a little electrical know how.
PC's are one if not the most outdated products in this hobby. If your starting out...don't "upgrade" to pc's.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:47 PM   #18
clockwurk
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Re: Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by luke33
Watts per gallon is complete junk, you cant base anything on that.

No way should you get an anemone, they do need more light....each anemone needs different amounts but you can't provide them right now.

Par is what you need to look at, not wattage.
There are many rules that apply to lighting a tank, but unless youre going to explain them all, for standard tanks, and for someone new to the hobby, its not a bad guideline.

If Cajundolphin setup was 55 Gal, w/ 2x96 watts PC, and she wanted to keep mushrooms and other easy softies, most of us, with that information alone, would say yes, that it should be ok.

As far as Power Compacts being crap, if youre going to keep softies, for the money they work great. Cajundolphin is not trying to keep SPS and LPS. Although I am sure they would be great, theres no NEED for metal halides. Not everyone has the budget for halides, and not everyone needs them as well. Theres nothing wrong with working within a parameter.


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:50 PM   #19
Nasty Wendy
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Where in Louisiana are you located?


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Unread 09/22/2007, 10:56 PM   #20
luke33
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PAR+Photosynthiticly Active Radiation....thats what your lookin for.

If you are looking at softies you will eventually move over to everything and want some growth with them as well. Don't settle for PC's, as they will KEEP some softies fine, but that's all they will do. For a 55g the t5's will be perfect. I'm not recomending halide's as some are saying???


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Unread 09/22/2007, 11:10 PM   #21
Noah_Count
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Re: Re: Re: Lights

Quote:
Originally posted by luke33
PC's are one if not the most outdated products in this hobby. If your starting out...don't "upgrade" to pc's.
Another opinion of yours I guess. I was just trying to suggest a way to save some money. Not everyone has loads of money for lighting and PC's are still a viable option as long as you're not talking a full blown reef. I won't clutter up the thread arguing the point anymore though.
cajundolphin since you are not a DIY'er I would still suggest you look into some of the commercially availabe PC fixtures . You can keep softies and shrooms with them, I've done it in the past. As already stated, they are not for LPS and SPS but my impression was that you weren't anywhere near wanting to do that yet.
I apoligize for cluttering up your thread. I was only trying to help.


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Unread 09/23/2007, 06:29 AM   #22
bmcq
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Try HelloLights web site. http://www.hellolights.com/ They have a wide variety of lighting at reasonable prices. If you have a friend with some electrical ability, you can probably put together a really nice T5 setup for around $200. This would be a good investment at this stage of your tank, and allow you a lot more flexibility with the future of your tank.


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Unread 09/23/2007, 07:22 AM   #23
cajundolphin
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Wow, I am really confused now....lol. I am from Elizabeth, La. It is central La. A midpoint between Alexandria, Lake Charles and Leesville. About an hour from each.


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Unread 09/23/2007, 09:38 AM   #24
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With all due respect to Luke, he has very definitive opinions on lighting and filtration. While I agree that T5 fixtures are ideal if you are upgrading, I don't always agree with his choices for application or the veracity of this opinions.

For T5 fixtures, in general the reflector (the metal backing) is best when each bulb has one. However I know a lot of people are happy with a single reflector such as the Nova Extreme T5 fixture. You will get more lighting out of a Tek with individual reflectors though.

On Compact fluorescents, they don't put out as much intensity Watt for Watt as a T5 or Metal Halide light. However they are relatively inexpensive and given you are doing mushrooms and polyps they should be fine.

Some quality sponsors:

Drs Foster and Smith

That Fish Place

Marine Depot (Link shows Compact Fluorescent)

Premium Aquatics t5 Tek fixture (Optimal)


On the subject of PAR. It's the only way to judge the intensity/spectrum of a given lamp. However I hardly know any vendor that rates their lamps based on this because the measure changes from system to system, unless you put it on YOUR system and test at a given depth it's hard to quantify. This is why the watts per gallon general rule was even used. It may be garbage, it may be inaccurate comparing across lighting types, but it helps people understand. To better help people understand I tell them a ROUGH rule for lighting is:

Normal Output (What the poster has) --> Compact Fluorescent --> T5 HO --> Metal Halide

Each step up increases the intensity. There is debate on the final step if Metal Halide is superior or inferior then T5 lights. However I see most people running Metal Halides on the high end and supplementing with T5.

So my advice after all this: I recommend a T5 fixture with individual reflectors like the Tek fixture from Premium Aquatics. However if your budget isn't there the Nova Extreme from Foster and Smith is good too. Finally, if your budget is less then that I would recommend a compact fluorescent fixture from Current USA at Foster and Smith or Marine Depot. Finally, if you have a good budget, you can never go wrong with a Metal Halide lamp, it allows you to put just about anything you want for corals if you get the right wattage (and PAR :P ). I personally like the Sunpod system for that.


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Unread 09/23/2007, 09:50 AM   #25
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I'd look through the used forum for a good t5 fixure, you may be able to find a good deal. If you are going to get pc's.......spend as little as possible. Look at the pc fixtures at aquatraders if you have to get pc's. It will cost you around a hundred bux and this way when your going to upgrade you won't be out alot.


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