Phosphate media and carbon recommendation

dzhuo · 10/02/2007, 09:21 PM

i am looking to put a small bag of phosphate media and carbon into my hob filter reguarly. i am looking for some recommendations of which brand to use, something that's efficient, won't leak back and won't inbalance all those important water parameters ph, alk, cal, etc.

i was told Phosar (particularly the Warner Marine brand) is a particularly good phosphate media to use. does anyone have experience with that?

also, which carbon is everyone use these days?

thx!

hollback · 10/03/2007, 10:59 AM

I don't run carbon so I'm not much help with that.

I used to run Phosban but changed a few years back to Rowaphos. I was told that it doesn't leach as much as the Phosban. I like it and have continued to use it.

jdieck · 10/03/2007, 11:06 AM

For GFO: PHOsR pelletized or HC
For carbon: Either black diamond or Seachem's matrix. They are both very low phosphate leaching. I like the Seachems as it has less fines, beter flow charachteristics and rinses easier but Black Diamond is cheaper.

dzhuo · 10/03/2007, 12:44 PM

> For GFO: PHOsR pelletized or HC

can you point me a link where to buy this product? don't even know what HC is?

Billybeau1 · 10/03/2007, 01:01 PM

I use the PhoSar and Seachems Matrix in my hob canister. Works fantastic. I change it every 4 to six weeks depending on PO4 levels.

You can get PhoSar at Warnermarine.com

I believe the HC stands for High Capacity. I've used both and they both work well.

jdieck · 10/03/2007, 01:04 PM

The pellet version has similar adsorbing capacity as phosban and Rowaphos but because of the shape has less tendency to clumping due to improved flow which allows it to ustilize it's full capacity.
HC (High Capacity) version is not pelletized but has up to three times higher adsorption capacity, being denser and less brittle allows for higher flow in a reactor without the tendency to break apart.
I have tried and tested some brandless medias as well as Phosban and Rowaphos and those I am recommending in my opinion are the best by far.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ry_Code=warner
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ry_Code=warner
http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...ID=WM&catID=fi
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...arner%20marine

ganjero · 10/03/2007, 02:13 PM

What about kent reef carbon?

jdieck · 10/03/2007, 02:58 PM

Kent did not do well in adsorption capacity:
See related tests and articles linked below:

http://web.archive.org/web/200009180.../1/default.asp

http://web.archive.org/web/200308042...ct/default.asp

http://www.hallman.org/filter/gac.html

dzhuo · 10/03/2007, 03:13 PM

i am going to try PHOSaR. since i only have a 10g with limited space and no reactor of anything, i am pretty much forced to put the media in a small bag and drop it in my hob filter (there isn't anything in it yet. purely for circulation purpose).

do you think this will be ok? also, how big are the media? need to know what size of media bag to get.

ganjero · 10/03/2007, 03:14 PM

what about the carbon sold by the two part solution people?

jdieck · 10/03/2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzhuo
i am going to try PHOSaR. since i only have a 10g with limited space and no reactor of anything, i am pretty much forced to put the media in a small bag and drop it in my hob filter (there isn't anything in it yet. purely for circulation purpose).

do you think this will be ok? also, how big are the media? need to know what size of media bag to get.

Use the granular PHOsR as its shape is ideal for bag flow.
The pellets are about 1 by 2 milimeters. (1000 to 2000 microns) so a bag of about 250 to 500 microns will be OK

IndyReefMan · 10/03/2007, 03:45 PM

I second the Phosar. It's the only phosphate reducing media that I've used that didn't turn into a brick after a few weeks. I've used Two Little Fishies Hydrocarbon and that has worked well for me.

fish02 · 10/03/2007, 04:25 PM

ganjero, I have read in the chemistry forums here that the twopartsolution.com ROX 0.8 Premium Carbon is some of the best if not the best carbon for our hobby.

DrBegalke · 10/03/2007, 05:10 PM

chemipure elite would be perfect for a HOB.

HBtank · 10/03/2007, 05:28 PM

I use PHOSar and Seachem matrix together in a phosphate reactor.

dzhuo · 10/03/2007, 09:42 PM

it seems harmless to mix phosar and carbon in a single media bag, or is it?

Billybeau1 · 10/03/2007, 10:59 PM

Does you hob have a media container ?

In my case, the carbon is big enough to put in the container without a bag. Then I put the PhoSar in a mesh bag and layer the rest with carbon.

dzhuo · 10/03/2007, 11:17 PM

the hob has a small media container but i actually mod the hob to be a fuge and the container was destroyed back end. now what used to be chaeto there is now empty. i am thinking about putting a bag of phosar there and mix some carbon in it.

Billybeau1 · 10/04/2007, 12:39 AM

In the immortal words of Rocky Balboa...... "Go for it"

dzhuo · 10/11/2007, 09:43 PM

with more research and jdieck's suggestion, i putted a small bag of PHOSar in my 10g nano. i wished it several times with distill water (used up 2g), but it still isn't completely clean. i can still see a little color in the washed water.

is that normal? how long does it normally last before replacement is needed?

thx!

sunfish11 · 10/11/2007, 09:47 PM

I use Chemi-pure or Black Diamond for Carbon and Phosban.

Lisa

jdieck · 10/11/2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzhuo
with more research and jdieck's suggestion, i putted a small bag of PHOSar in my 10g nano. i wished it several times with distill water (used up 2g), but it still isn't completely clean. i can still see a little color in the washed water.

is that normal? how long does it normally last before replacement is needed?

thx!

How long it lasts depends on how much phosphate you have, the amount continuously added and the amount of media, the best is to test and replace when phosphate stops dropping or starts increasing.
During my tests and having no detectable phosphates I used four times the recommended dose to test for potential negative reaction of the critters, it lasted 8 months!

In a bag the easier way to rinse is use a small bucket or Tupperware with water, submerge the bag and shake gently, replace the water and repeat. The first rinse takes out a lot of the fines, the second comes out fairly clean. I found out this uses less water (when I rinse my carbon) than if I pour the water over the bag.
In my reactor during a water change I just turn it on and throw away the water until it comes out fairly clean

dzhuo · 10/11/2007, 11:46 PM

you are able to only rinse a couple times to get it clean? rare, i washed it at least 5 times (each time with new clean distill water) and each time it become noticeably cleaner but never completely clean. i gave up after the 7th wash or so.

it has been in the tank for a hour now and since nothing shows any negative reaction (especially the sps), i guess it's good enough.

unfortunately, i don't have a reliable p04 test kit, i am just planning to change it every 2 weeks.

10/02/2007, 09:21 PM	#1
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	Phosphate media and carbon recommendation i am looking to put a small bag of phosphate media and carbon into my hob filter reguarly. i am looking for some recommendations of which brand to use, something that's efficient, won't leak back and won't inbalance all those important water parameters ph, alk, cal, etc. i was told Phosar (particularly the Warner Marine brand) is a particularly good phosphate media to use. does anyone have experience with that? also, which carbon is everyone use these days? thx!

10/03/2007, 10:59 AM	#2
hollback Team RC Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 3,586	I don't run carbon so I'm not much help with that. I used to run Phosban but changed a few years back to Rowaphos. I was told that it doesn't leach as much as the Phosban. I like it and have continued to use it. __________________ Jason Μολὼν λαβέ "Dressed up like plankton, sucked in by baleen." Current Tank Info: 40,000 Tablespoons

10/03/2007, 11:06 AM	#3
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	For GFO: PHOsR pelletized or HC For carbon: Either black diamond or Seachem's matrix. They are both very low phosphate leaching. I like the Seachems as it has less fines, beter flow charachteristics and rinses easier but Black Diamond is cheaper. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

10/03/2007, 12:44 PM	#4
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	> For GFO: PHOsR pelletized or HC can you point me a link where to buy this product? don't even know what HC is? __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

10/03/2007, 01:04 PM	#6
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	The pellet version has similar adsorbing capacity as phosban and Rowaphos but because of the shape has less tendency to clumping due to improved flow which allows it to ustilize it's full capacity. HC (High Capacity) version is not pelletized but has up to three times higher adsorption capacity, being denser and less brittle allows for higher flow in a reactor without the tendency to break apart. I have tried and tested some brandless medias as well as Phosban and Rowaphos and those I am recommending in my opinion are the best by far. http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ry_Code=warner http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...ry_Code=warner http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...ID=WM&catID=fi http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...arner%20marine __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

10/03/2007, 01:01 PM	#5
Billybeau1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dyer, Indiana Posts: 12,010	I use the PhoSar and Seachems Matrix in my hob canister. Works fantastic. I change it every 4 to six weeks depending on PO4 levels. You can get PhoSar at Warnermarine.com I believe the HC stands for High Capacity. I've used both and they both work well.

10/03/2007, 02:13 PM	#7
ganjero saiperchémibatteilcorazon Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 4,027	What about kent reef carbon?

10/03/2007, 02:58 PM	#8
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Kent did not do well in adsorption capacity: See related tests and articles linked below: http://web.archive.org/web/200009180.../1/default.asp http://web.archive.org/web/200308042...ct/default.asp http://www.hallman.org/filter/gac.html __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

10/03/2007, 03:13 PM	#9
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	i am going to try PHOSaR. since i only have a 10g with limited space and no reactor of anything, i am pretty much forced to put the media in a small bag and drop it in my hob filter (there isn't anything in it yet. purely for circulation purpose). do you think this will be ok? also, how big are the media? need to know what size of media bag to get. __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

10/03/2007, 03:14 PM	#10
ganjero saiperchémibatteilcorazon Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 4,027	what about the carbon sold by the two part solution people?

10/03/2007, 03:45 PM	#12
IndyReefMan Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 477	I second the Phosar. It's the only phosphate reducing media that I've used that didn't turn into a brick after a few weeks. I've used Two Little Fishies Hydrocarbon and that has worked well for me.

10/03/2007, 04:25 PM	#13
fish02 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 162	ganjero, I have read in the chemistry forums here that the twopartsolution.com ROX 0.8 Premium Carbon is some of the best if not the best carbon for our hobby.

10/03/2007, 05:10 PM	#14
DrBegalke Go Buckeyes! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Phoenix area, AZ Posts: 2,599	chemipure elite would be perfect for a HOB. __________________ ~Jason Begalke Current Tank Info: Latest project: JBJ Cubey

10/03/2007, 05:28 PM	#15
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	I use PHOSar and Seachem matrix together in a phosphate reactor. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

10/03/2007, 09:42 PM	#16
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	it seems harmless to mix phosar and carbon in a single media bag, or is it? __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

10/03/2007, 10:59 PM	#17
Billybeau1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dyer, Indiana Posts: 12,010	Does you hob have a media container ? In my case, the carbon is big enough to put in the container without a bag. Then I put the PhoSar in a mesh bag and layer the rest with carbon.

10/03/2007, 11:17 PM	#18
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	the hob has a small media container but i actually mod the hob to be a fuge and the container was destroyed back end. now what used to be chaeto there is now empty. i am thinking about putting a bag of phosar there and mix some carbon in it. __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

10/04/2007, 12:39 AM	#19
Billybeau1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dyer, Indiana Posts: 12,010	In the immortal words of Rocky Balboa...... "Go for it"

10/11/2007, 09:43 PM	#20
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	with more research and jdieck's suggestion, i putted a small bag of PHOSar in my 10g nano. i wished it several times with distill water (used up 2g), but it still isn't completely clean. i can still see a little color in the washed water. is that normal? how long does it normally last before replacement is needed? thx! __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.

10/11/2007, 09:47 PM	#21
sunfish11 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weyauwega, WI Posts: 2,365	I use Chemi-pure or Black Diamond for Carbon and Phosban. Lisa

10/11/2007, 11:46 PM	#23
dzhuo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,338	you are able to only rinse a couple times to get it clean? rare, i washed it at least 5 times (each time with new clean distill water) and each time it become noticeably cleaner but never completely clean. i gave up after the 7th wash or so. it has been in the tank for a hour now and since nothing shows any negative reaction (especially the sps), i guess it's good enough. unfortunately, i don't have a reliable p04 test kit, i am just planning to change it every 2 weeks. __________________ One of the most frustrating thing about this hobby? The blind leading the blind.