Upsize to failure

Deatherent · 10/07/2007, 06:46 PM

I recently moved from a 55 galon reef to a 75 gallon reef. Sounds simple enough doen't it.

I took everything out of the 55 including the water and reassembled it into the 75 adding 60 pounds of live rock purchased out of a tank being moved out of state so i know it was good rock.

I hand mixed the water addition and carfully checked to make sure my salenity was around 1.028.

Now the problem. My corrals don't open my new snales have not moved from where they were dropped into the tank.

It has been 2 months since the move and it is not looking good and I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

I have a 20 high that I do nothing to other than top offs and it is glorious.

HELP

flyyyguy · 10/07/2007, 06:50 PM

1.028 is a little high...especially if you are getting that reading with a hydrometer or a improperly calibrated refractometer and it is actually higher than that. In times of stress it is better to be a little lower than higher.

the ocean is at .026 more or less, why would you want to be any higher than that??

I would also maybe do a test for copper on the new tank. Just to make sure that isnt an issue.

Did you move a sandbed too?? Is there a chance that you have/have had levels of ammonia nad nitrIte due to a cycle of some kind??

REEF-n-Chicago · 10/07/2007, 07:19 PM

Agreed on the high level of salinity.... My only thought was the sand bed or copper as well? Hmmmm ! Let us know?

Deatherent · 10/07/2007, 07:51 PM

Ok agreed but everyone I talk to gives me a different level I should be keeping my salinaty at. I will lower it ASAP.

I did move my sand bed but I have checked my ammonia levels and they are at 0. I do think my Nitrites are high because I am getting a spike in hair algea and I am not sure the best way to get it down.

Tested for copper and got a negative reading and also tested my PH which is around 8.2 which I think is a little low.

Any and all help is very much appreciated

TitusvileSurfer · 10/07/2007, 08:12 PM

What about nitrate? You obviously have a cycled tank and you nitrite should be 0 by default with your ammonia, but nitrate is a little different.

SlowCobra · 10/07/2007, 08:14 PM

No matter who you talk to, if they suggest anything over 1.026 stop listening immediately. The salinity range should be between 1.021 and 1.026. Usually most people strive for around .023 - .026 unless putting a fish through hyposalinity for treatment of ich.

Paulairduck · 10/07/2007, 08:24 PM

THE dead sea

Deatherent · 10/07/2007, 08:31 PM

You are correct nitrite @ or below 0 and nitrate spiking.

dendro982 · 10/08/2007, 06:04 AM

If you kept thanks for 18 years at 1.028, and the 20g high is OK - this shouldn't be a cause of changes. Although I'm keeping 1.026

If the 75g tank wasn't used for medications, and the rock was cycled, with no ammonia after addition - everything should be OK, I do that all the time. Only adding Seachem Stability (bacteria), just in case, and testing every day for a several days.

In unknown cases, I would do cleaning, water change, fresh carbon, changed every 2 days for a week, grounding probe, check an oxygen or just oxygenate a little more. Maybe Kent's Toxic Metals sponge for a short time.

When you will solve this situation, and will have more time - can you post more about 20g, that needs only top-off?
I would like to go this route too.

davidryder · 10/08/2007, 07:31 AM

It's been two months and you are having the same problem?

8.2 isn't on the low side at all IMO

akaatomic · 10/08/2007, 08:42 AM

How long had the 55 been up for? Your sand bed could've gone toxic. If you've kept the salinity, PH, temp, lights, etc... then your results should be similar. The only two biological changes that you've made are stirring up your sand and adding new rock. Are you running carbon right now? Get back to the basics. I would take out the new rock, do a large water change and run some carbon for two weeks and see how things look. If things don't get better I'd say it's your sand. If they do, slowly add the rock back in and watch for deterioration. Worst case you need to replace your sand. Do some searching on sand beds. I've read everything from sand beds only last a few years to never touch your sand bed.

Craig Lambert · 10/08/2007, 08:56 AM

I agree that the likely problem is the sandbed. When you moved it the different layers became mixed and released material that was toxic to your inhabitants.

TitusvileSurfer · 10/08/2007, 09:14 AM

The sand sounds logical to me. You should test for phosphates, if a test shows off the chart quantities then there you have it.

davidryder · 10/08/2007, 11:17 AM

But two months?? I could understand having a problem for a couple of weeks but two months is far long enough for any sandbed/cycle problem to subside.

samtheman · 10/08/2007, 11:43 AM

If it was the sandbed, the problem would be over after two months. If it did continue for that long, it would be noticalbe in the test readings. I'll bet on something else. How was the lighting changed? Or some other factor like temp. differences between the two tanks.
We don't know many of the tank paramaters except salinity was high.

TitusvileSurfer · 10/08/2007, 05:17 PM

He said he had high nitrates as well. Phosphate was never checked to my knowledge. He could have copper stored in the silicone of his 'new' tank, but I doubt it. I wonder if there is a dead fish stuck under a rock tucked away out of sight and out of reach causing high ammonia, which is eaten...high nitrite, which is eaten...and high nitrate, which makes his corals close and snails die. Of course if the snails haven't moved in two months, they are possibly contributing greatly to the nitrate problem.

Skier1 · 10/08/2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Ok agreed but everyone I talk to gives me a different level I should be keeping my salinaty at.

Personally, Randy Holmes-Farley is very respected here and wrote this article in Reefkeeping on water salinity:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php

His recommendation of 1.0264 seems very well-reasoned to me.

10/07/2007, 06:46 PM	#1
Deatherent Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indianapolis, in Posts: 5	Upsize to failure I recently moved from a 55 galon reef to a 75 gallon reef. Sounds simple enough doen't it. I took everything out of the 55 including the water and reassembled it into the 75 adding 60 pounds of live rock purchased out of a tank being moved out of state so i know it was good rock. I hand mixed the water addition and carfully checked to make sure my salenity was around 1.028. Now the problem. My corrals don't open my new snales have not moved from where they were dropped into the tank. It has been 2 months since the move and it is not looking good and I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I have a 20 high that I do nothing to other than top offs and it is glorious. HELP

10/07/2007, 06:50 PM	#2
flyyyguy King of the white corals Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,239	1.028 is a little high...especially if you are getting that reading with a hydrometer or a improperly calibrated refractometer and it is actually higher than that. In times of stress it is better to be a little lower than higher. the ocean is at .026 more or less, why would you want to be any higher than that?? I would also maybe do a test for copper on the new tank. Just to make sure that isnt an issue. Did you move a sandbed too?? Is there a chance that you have/have had levels of ammonia nad nitrIte due to a cycle of some kind?? __________________ I like holding hands, snuggling, and long walks on the beach

10/07/2007, 07:19 PM	#3
REEF-n-Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA (san pedro) Posts: 1,456	Agreed on the high level of salinity.... My only thought was the sand bed or copper as well? Hmmmm ! Let us know? __________________ Jordan My tank gets DRUNK every morning Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon w/ 100 gallon sump; 240 gallon

10/07/2007, 07:51 PM	#4
Deatherent Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indianapolis, in Posts: 5	Ok agreed but everyone I talk to gives me a different level I should be keeping my salinaty at. I will lower it ASAP. I did move my sand bed but I have checked my ammonia levels and they are at 0. I do think my Nitrites are high because I am getting a spike in hair algea and I am not sure the best way to get it down. Tested for copper and got a negative reading and also tested my PH which is around 8.2 which I think is a little low. Any and all help is very much appreciated __________________ "Life's Journey is not to arrive at the Grave safely in a well preserverd body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY CRAP WHAT A RIDE!!! Current Tank Info: 75 and 25 and 12

10/07/2007, 08:12 PM	#5
TitusvileSurfer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Titusville, FL Posts: 3,227	What about nitrate? You obviously have a cycled tank and you nitrite should be 0 by default with your ammonia, but nitrate is a little different. __________________ The ocean is the pinnacle of reef tanks. Someone up there is keeping up with his PH and Phosphates to.

10/07/2007, 08:14 PM	#6
SlowCobra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 3,079	No matter who you talk to, if they suggest anything over 1.026 stop listening immediately. The salinity range should be between 1.021 and 1.026. Usually most people strive for around .023 - .026 unless putting a fish through hyposalinity for treatment of ich.

10/07/2007, 08:24 PM	#7
Paulairduck I LOVE FREE FRAGS!!! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chino Hills Posts: 2,909	THE dead sea

10/07/2007, 08:31 PM	#8
Deatherent Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indianapolis, in Posts: 5	You are correct nitrite @ or below 0 and nitrate spiking. __________________ "Life's Journey is not to arrive at the Grave safely in a well preserverd body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting HOLY CRAP WHAT A RIDE!!! Current Tank Info: 75 and 25 and 12

10/08/2007, 06:04 AM	#9
dendro982 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,963	If you kept thanks for 18 years at 1.028, and the 20g high is OK - this shouldn't be a cause of changes. Although I'm keeping 1.026 If the 75g tank wasn't used for medications, and the rock was cycled, with no ammonia after addition - everything should be OK, I do that all the time. Only adding Seachem Stability (bacteria), just in case, and testing every day for a several days. In unknown cases, I would do cleaning, water change, fresh carbon, changed every 2 days for a week, grounding probe, check an oxygen or just oxygenate a little more. Maybe Kent's Toxic Metals sponge for a short time. When you will solve this situation, and will have more time - can you post more about 20g, that needs only top-off? I would like to go this route too.

10/08/2007, 07:31 AM	#10
davidryder Claris or Elliot? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Nightopia Posts: 2,750	It's been two months and you are having the same problem? 8.2 isn't on the low side at all IMO __________________ A rolling stone gathers no moss... Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef, corner overflow (Mag 9.5), 25g refugium (Mag 5), 15g refugium, Orbit 260w pc, Pan World 50PX-X (Closed loop), AquaC EV-120 (now skimmerless)

10/08/2007, 08:42 AM	#11
akaatomic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 155	How long had the 55 been up for? Your sand bed could've gone toxic. If you've kept the salinity, PH, temp, lights, etc... then your results should be similar. The only two biological changes that you've made are stirring up your sand and adding new rock. Are you running carbon right now? Get back to the basics. I would take out the new rock, do a large water change and run some carbon for two weeks and see how things look. If things don't get better I'd say it's your sand. If they do, slowly add the rock back in and watch for deterioration. Worst case you need to replace your sand. Do some searching on sand beds. I've read everything from sand beds only last a few years to never touch your sand bed.

10/08/2007, 08:56 AM	#12
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	I agree that the likely problem is the sandbed. When you moved it the different layers became mixed and released material that was toxic to your inhabitants. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

10/08/2007, 09:14 AM	#13
TitusvileSurfer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Titusville, FL Posts: 3,227	The sand sounds logical to me. You should test for phosphates, if a test shows off the chart quantities then there you have it. __________________ The ocean is the pinnacle of reef tanks. Someone up there is keeping up with his PH and Phosphates to.

10/08/2007, 11:17 AM	#14
davidryder Claris or Elliot? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Nightopia Posts: 2,750	But two months?? I could understand having a problem for a couple of weeks but two months is far long enough for any sandbed/cycle problem to subside. __________________ A rolling stone gathers no moss... Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef, corner overflow (Mag 9.5), 25g refugium (Mag 5), 15g refugium, Orbit 260w pc, Pan World 50PX-X (Closed loop), AquaC EV-120 (now skimmerless)

10/08/2007, 11:43 AM	#15
samtheman Moved On Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	If it was the sandbed, the problem would be over after two months. If it did continue for that long, it would be noticalbe in the test readings. I'll bet on something else. How was the lighting changed? Or some other factor like temp. differences between the two tanks. We don't know many of the tank paramaters except salinity was high.

10/08/2007, 05:17 PM	#16
TitusvileSurfer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Titusville, FL Posts: 3,227	He said he had high nitrates as well. Phosphate was never checked to my knowledge. He could have copper stored in the silicone of his 'new' tank, but I doubt it. I wonder if there is a dead fish stuck under a rock tucked away out of sight and out of reach causing high ammonia, which is eaten...high nitrite, which is eaten...and high nitrate, which makes his corals close and snails die. Of course if the snails haven't moved in two months, they are possibly contributing greatly to the nitrate problem. __________________ The ocean is the pinnacle of reef tanks. Someone up there is keeping up with his PH and Phosphates to. Last edited by TitusvileSurfer; 10/08/2007 at 05:22 PM.