wrong things newbies get told...a list.

[Sk8r]

1. cycle with a damsel. No. Cruel and useless. Use only a few fishfood flakes a day to cycle with, stopping once you have ammonia.

2. coral banded shrimp. Pretty, but they're carnivorous, and may soon take after your fish.

3. bristleworms are dangerous. No. They're safe. DO wear latex gloves when handling rock they're in, but they're not only safe, they're downright essential to your tank.

4. sally lightfoot crabs: I love these guys, but they rapidly take to a fish diet---your fish. And they grow to the size of a dinnerplate.

5. you need a filter. No. Not for a reef. Useful for fish-only tanks, but you have to clean them obsessively [like weekly] or watch your fishes' health decline. For a reef, they can be lethal if not cleaned, and live rock and sand only do a much better job and never have to be cleaned.

6. aiptasia, majanos are a horrid plague and will rapidly kill your whole tank. Nope. Just a pest. The common mushroom is just as dangerous if you're going to keep corals. Relax. Just go on a campaign to get rid of them bit by bit: peppermint shrimp are a bit of a pest, but the juvvie ones are more inclined to eat these things.

7. caulerpa. NOT in your display: and the problem is, it breaks off bits that can get through the sump return and INTO your display. If you have a tank under 100 g, it is a serious problem, because your tank is too small for any fish that can keep it eaten-back and under control. Inverts can't really get it, because it roots into the rock and they can't get it out. AND, just to make things really fun, if you change the light cycle on caulerpa it goes into a sporing frenzy, turns your water to milk and suffocates all your fish and corals. Over 100 g, great. Fine. NOT under.

8. additives beyond reef salt and alkalinity buffer, maybe calcium. No. Snake oil. Mostly useless, and a few potentially harmful. "If you don't own a test for it, don't dose it into your tank." Memorize that mantra.

9. nano tanks, undrilled tanks, drilled tanks. Reef ready tanks. I'm not going to say one is 'right', but let's have some helpful info here about sales pitches. Nanos are not an easy break-in to the marine hobby: they're very tricky and difficult. I haven't got time to keep one. My 54g causes me much less hassle. 2. buying a cheap tank at Petco isn't always cheap. A cheap tank is frequently very thin glass, and it isn't pre-drilled. A reef weighs a lot. Thin glass is very vulnerable. One thing you can do to protect a thin glass bottom is lay down a layer of 'egg crate' lighting grid, preventing a rockslide from slamming a sharp point down on it, but finding a crack across your tank is a real nightmare. Thicker glass costs more, but breaks less often. Sometimes a novice looks at two tanks and can't figure out why one is twice as expensive: glass thickness is often the answer. Ask questions. 3. a predrilled tank is ready for a sump and all that goes with it. Pricey? Yes. But you can end up spending extra for devices that compensate, like a hang-on-back [HOB] skimmer that isn't as powerful as the skimmer you could have gotten had you had a sump; etc. 4. Can you drill your own? Yes---but. You need a drill, proper coring bits, goggles, and nerves of steel. Many tanks' bottoms are tempered glass, and will shatter if you attempt to drill them: nobody can drill them. Some tanks have ALL tempered glass. They can't be drilled at all. AND you have to know where to drill: you can talk to people in the DIY forum who will walk you through this, but do realize you could gamble for lower cost and lose the bet. 5. If you want to keep fishes as large as a yellow tang, you have to have a tank of AT LEAST 75 and properly 100g. Do not attempt to keep angels, tangs, triggers, and rabbits unless you have a big tank. If that's what rings your chimes, budget for it.

10. Large fleshy inverts: no. Sea apples, cucumbers, medusa worms, etc, are just not for novices. They can take out a tank. Get a year of experience before you take on a cucumber, and just don't get a sea apple, basket star, etc: they have no business in our tanks.

11. inappropriate fish: do not attempt: butterfly fish, sea robins, mandarins, scooter blennies, sharks, rays, and I'd add, eels, until you know what you're doing and know the ins and outs of these species. Personally, I'd advise against mated pairs of most fish: breeding activity can turn mild fish into a problem. Fish don't need friends: they need territory that's theirs, that they can 'defend' and claim: that's what warms their little hearts. EVERYBODY loves a clown---but do NOT get more than one species in the same tank.

12. DO: get test strips for ammonia and nitrate; an alkalinity test, and if keeping corals, a calcium test kit. I use Salifert, myself. Get a refractometer [NOT a hydrometer], get a ph meter, and get a log book. If, when you get into trouble, you can report the results of all these tests PLUS the trends over the last week PLUS what you added and when, we stand a really good chance of being able to answer your question within 10 minutes.

13. Here: have another fish. No. Do not go into the fish store with big eyes and end up with an overcrowded tank lethal to every pretty fish you bought and provoking territorial fights at every turn. Plan on your fish living at least a decade: they can. Do not impulse-buy a fish. Research first. They can always order you another. Do not pity-buy. A sick fish can kill everybody else. Do not listen to your significant other. Research first.

14. Quarantine tank? It looks healthy...just put it on in. No. Quarantine your new fish. A new tank in the hands of a new reefer is a guarantee of an ich breakout at the first opportunity. Water instabilities, falling alkalinity, all these things irritate fish skin and gills, and if the parasite is there---bingo! Every fish in the tank comes down with it. Particularly susceptible: tangs, angels, clowns, rabbits. [And clowns get brook: they even have their own disease. Google brooklynosis AND ich: know what you have to avoid and don't buy a fish that has it.] And STILL quarantine: you owe it to your other fishes.

Hope that helps, guys. It's not universal, but I hope to save you some money and some grief.

[cmejaf30]

well said...well said

[reefergeorge]

You did pretty good with your list.
It will be a long time till that tang is to big for your 29.

[ROB2005]

Some things to add to that:

Sifting Starfish sift the sand: Cool looking starfish, but a disaster to live sandbeds which contain the beneficial pods and critters needed to sustain it.

Green Brittle Star: BUY AT YOUR OWN RISK. Let him starve and any small fish you have will pay the price for it if he has no other choice.

I dont need a heater: Better safe than sorry

[jubjub]

wow very good list....

[ihopss]

Good advice.

[Thinslis]

I would also add

Tap water will be fine, just dose with Essential Elements: This is only true if you like seeting lots of green algae in your tank. Invest in a quality RO/DI unit or plan to buy RO/DI water from a store.

[MaineReefer207]

Aye great list, maybe something like this can help prevent financial loss to unexperienced aquarists who are given false info from local fish suppliers

[acrodave]

Bumblebee snails are not a good clean up crew animal they eat pods and other micro fauna in the sand

[super stooge]

LFS: "trust me"

[MikeyNYC]

That's it's ok to place Anemone's in a new tank. People just can't resist, and the anemone dies it takes everything along with it. Shame Shame

[weaselslucks]

love the list. I'm getting an overflow for my 75 and it will cost $119 rather would have hade a pre-drilled tank

oh yeah and dont hotglue corals to liverock

[kathainbowen]

Sk8r, can I add a few?

1a.) Water changes aren't necessary.

1b.) Excessive water changes are necessary.
What can I say? I've seen too many tanks plagued with nuissance algaes from not enough water changes. I've also seen equally as many tanks with corals just wasting away in nutrient devoid water. It's all about knowing what you have and achieving a balance to keep optimal conditions for the critters you're keeping.

2.) Emerald -mithrix- crabs.
Emerald or mithrix crabs have always had a special place in the hobby, since they have been noted to just destroy bubble algae (and they're so cute, to boot!). However, there are some tendancies that have given mithrix crabs a bad name. Mithrix crabs have a knack for locating dying polyps, or polyps in poor health, and plucking them. This has earned them a bad reputation for ripping up polyps for no reason. However, there are some species of mithrix crabs that DO rip up healthy polyps for no reason. It's like people. Sometimes, you just find the bad apple out of the bunch.

3.) Peppermint shrimp.
Unfortunately, while certain peppermint shrimp species do eat aiptasia, there are some species which are commonly called "peppermint shrimp" that do not. You have to be cautious when selecting "peppermint shrimp" to ensure you are getting the real deal, and especially to ensure, as a newbie, that you are not being sold camel shrimp (which are rather pretty, with striking markings, but are not reef safe). In addition to that, many peppermint shrimp have troubles tackling aiptasia that are larger than 1/2" or in situations of tanks being really infested with aiptasia (in which case, you may wish to contemplate using an alternative method to work in conjuction with the shrimp, such as Joe's Juice). So be cautious when seeking peppermint shrimp to combat aiptasia.

On the same token, many newbies add peppermint shrimp to their tank at the advice of experienced hobbyists to take care of aiptasia. A secret that they don't often share is that, like many other crustaceans, peppermint shrimp are a bit reclusive and primarily active at night. While we normally associate shrimp with being out and in view (such as with skunk cleaner shrimp), peppermint shrimp can be a bit... nervous, hiding from sight. This also means that, while you may get peppermint shrimp, it might take a little while for them to settle into your tank before going after aiptasia.

4.) Brine shrimp
I recently put together a large posting, almost editorial about brine shrimp and about how is has been both falsely praised AND falsely condemned as a food source. Brine shrimp, like many food sources, has benefits and drawbacks. Newbies are especially prone to doing this sincce brine shrimp had been traditionally viewed as an excellent food source for both fresh and saltwater fish throughout the years, causing a trend to encourage the feeding of brine shrimp and nothing else (we'll get to that in a second).

Brine shrimp can be used as a treat, as a means to coax finicky fish to begin to develop a feeding response for the foods you normally feed (either by increased freshness from frozen brine, or the motions of live brine that fish find just irresistable). Yet, it's nutritional value is derived from both the age of the brine shrimp (as the fat content, amino acids, and protein shift geatly as they grow older) and what the shrimp are fed. While these contents can be questionable (especially if you did not grow the shrimp yourself), they can be enhanced by soaks such as Selcon, Zoe, or Zoe-Con. It's a half-full, half-empty situation when contemplating whether or not feeding brine shrimp, weighing your options.

This is not to say that there aren't better food sources out there! Just to note that ANY hobbyist needs to be cautious when regarding sudden, hard swings in thought to both the positive or the negative aspects of something without further investigation and research.

5.) *insert product name here* is the BEST food for your fish.
There is no "best" food for your fish. Fish are naturally opportunistic feeders, feeding upon a wide variety of things in the wild. This gives fish a wide variety of nutrients, vitamins and minerals that captive feeding programs relying on ONE food source can rarely ever hope to come anywhere near. The best way to achieve a feeding programme closer to nature is to vary foods, incorporating food stuffs that your specific tank inhabitants would normally feed upon in the wild (such as algaes and nori for your tangs!).

6.) *insert brand name here* is the BEST salt for your tank!
There is no salt that perfectly mimics the nature. It's been talked about loads of times on RC, and there have been several independent studies of this. However, if you don't believe the studies or the banter on RC, think about it logically. Different areas, levels, seasons, even times of day, can vary the chemical composition of water on a reef.... ONE reef, let alone an entire area of reefs, sea, and ocean. No salt can perfectly match a SPECIFIC reef's water content and still be commercially viable (just think about how many reefs are out there!), so how can there really be a perfect salt for every reef tank? Even still, most reef keepers have a variety of corals in their tank.... so how do you compromise for that? After that, sometimes the individual batch composition can vary slightly no matter how careful quality assurance is in a particular company. So, in truth, there is no "perfect" salt. There are only "better" salts. By using independent studies and evaluating both your needs, budgeting, and personal experience by trying a couple of salts, you can find one that will be a good match for you and your tank (such as, I love Kent, which ranked highly in the Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine study, since I've had excellent experience with it).

7.) Fish per gallon or inch per gallon.
It's a flawed system of stocking. There are just so many things that these "rules" do not take into account when planning stocking for a tank. Biomass (think of it like the difference between a big, obese oscar when compared to an angel of the same length). Behavioral patterns (sure, a maroon clown can go in a 20G, but it's going to terrorize everything that goes in there). Feeding patterns. Compatability issues. The style of tank (since, say, a standard 10g, a tall, a hex, and a custom are all vastly different tanks despite having the same gallon size). There is no perfect system to know exactly what you can put in a tank, so, sometimes, you have to weight all the options to get an answer (even if it's one you don't like) and lean to the side of caution.

8.) You can train *highly selective feeder* to take *unnatural food*!
If they won't eat an unnatural food source in the wild, if there are dismal captive mortality rates, etc, what makes anyone think they're going to be any luckier than other keepers including world renowned aquariums and institutes? Sure, there have been success stories, but that is no 100% certainty that things will work out. Sea hares. Moorish idols. Mandarin dragonets. Harlequin shrimp. Sure, there have been great stides in the care of some of these species, but that's still not making any promises. Just by researching any animal you are thinking about purchasing and considering a factor like selective feeding can help you avoid a waste of money, heartache (if you get attached to your fish), and head ache (if you have children who get attached to the fish) should the animal in question perish.

9.) You can't breed saltwater fish.
I direct you to the Fish Breeding forum and the Propagated Corals and Tank Raised Livestock Sales forums. I also direct you to ORA and urge hobbyists to, whenever possible, support the trade of aquaculture livestock as both a means to help the industry continue to grow and to support wild populations by decreasing the need for catching and harvest.

10.) I can just dump waterchange water down the drain, toilet, or front yard.
Check your local laws BEFORE dumping waterchange water to see if there are any regulations regarding the potential wild release of caulerpa species, as they can be mighty invasive. That, and consistently dumping too much saltwater in a spot in your yard, and you'll end up with a really nasty patch of dead stuff (although, this is a wonderful way to keep gravel driveways and rock gardens free of.... well.... all plants).

11.) I can catch or collect *insert plant, coral, invert, or fish here* from the wild.
Again, check the legality of collection before hitting the water. You could find that the collection of several species is prohibited altogether, in a particular area, or just during certain seasons. You could find that your intended collection area isn't open for collection. By speaking with the appropriate agencies in the area of intended collection, you could also get lucky and get some really good info you wouldn't otherwise get without asking questions (such as tidal info, water conditions, the quality of specimens in that area, better places to collect, or just tips for finding the best specimens).


*phew*


Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

But, as always Sk8r, a most excellent idea for a thread, and very good points in the original post. *bows to the master of knowing what to say*

[coast2coast7390]

Originally posted by super stooge
LFS: "trust me"

depends on how good your LFS is...mine is really reliable...will never try to get a sale over health and well being of your fish

[SABOB]

Excellent thread,should be a sticky and required reading by all.

[JJ21]

Excellent list sk8r! Great thread as well

[jsr]

This is great. I will add one more... "Skimmers are for lazy people. They cause more problems then they solve."

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by jsr
This is great. I will add one more... "Skimmers are for lazy people. They cause more problems then they solve."

I bet a Seaclone owner said that!



JK.

Although, that does go hand in hand with "just set it up and ignore" for anything regarding a tank, such as heaters, filters, sumps, refugiums, lights, and, most especially skimmers. There's always going to be something to get in the tank and cause over skimming.

[colotl]

Awsome Thread guys. This break it down and would be great for any beginner .

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by ROB2005
Sifting Starfish sift the sand: Cool looking starfish, but a disaster to live sandbeds which contain the beneficial pods and critters needed to sustain it.

And the VAST majority of captive reef and saltwater enthusiasts do not have enough schtuff in the sandbed to keep a sandsifting star alive. The often end up wasting away and dying in some tucked away corner of the tank to be forgotten until you see signs of a rotting corpse such as the classic "melted" flesh of a dead starfish, the lovely decaying stench, or just a sudden little algae bloom.

[jsr]

Originally posted by kathainbowen
I bet a Seaclone owner said that!



JK.

Although, that does go hand in hand with "just set it up and ignore" for anything regarding a tank, such as heaters, filters, sumps, refugiums, lights, and, most especially skimmers. There's always going to be something to get in the tank and cause over skimming.

Actually, this was from a LFS. They also said if I really wanted a skimmer to use a Seaclone as it was a a great skimmer for a 135G aquarium.

[Mavrk]

When I got my latest tank, there were a few things my LFS said (luckily I knew they were incorrect):

1. You can keep everything with PC lights. When I said no, they said that they are using them. When I pointed out that they are talking about very shallow tanks that don't hold the corals for long, they even went so far as to open the hood and told me to "look how bright they are" as if my eyes were under water and could tell the PAR, etc.

2. Since I was using cured live rock and live sand, they said that if I bought their tank water that I could put fish in the same day (or within a day). When I passed on the water (knowing that the water column holds very little percentage of the bacteria), they said that even without the water the LR and LS means I could get a fish in a few days. While my tank did immediately cycle, it had not matured at all.

3. When I was purchasing my return pump (which I should have gotten online and saved about 50%), they recommended the Mag 9 because it will be 10% of my 90 gallon tank. The problem is that the tank is drilled for 1" pipes that are only rated for 600 gph (thanks to this forum for letting me know that ahead of time).

Great thread Sk8r, hopefully this thread will help out some of the newer folk from making big mistakes (and even those of us getting back into the hobby after a long break).

[cd77]

Originally posted by Sk8r
6. aiptasia, majanos are a horrid plague and will rapidly kill your whole tank. Nope. Just a pest. The common mushroom is just as dangerous if you're going to keep corals. Relax. Just go on a campaign to get rid of them bit by bit: peppermint shrimp are a bit of a pest, but the juvvie ones are more inclined to eat these things.

One of the things I rarely see mentioned in a "how do I get rid of my aiptasia?" thread is nutrient import/export. When I first started seeing aiptasia in my tank (though I still do zap an occasional one manually) reading Steven Pro's conclusions at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3...mpressions.htm caused me to re-examine my feeding/export routine:

"I would be remiss if I did not mention something else concerning these pest anemones. They are like other anemones, and really cnidarians in general; they cannot survive on light and the products of photosynthesis alone. They must be fed to live, grow, and multiply. In many instances, a proliferation of pest anemones should also be a wake up call to the aquarist to reexamine their husbandry techniques. Over feeding or inappropriate feeding, dosing the tank with suspect additives and invertebrate foods, and poor nutrient export processes are all likely contributing factors in many instances where these pests get out of control. A thorough, thoughtful retrospective on the care you provide may yield some additional measures that you can institute or perhaps some refinement of your current practices to help you in this battle by starving the creatures into submission." (Steven Pro, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3...mpressions.htm)

[kathainbowen]

Admittedly, on the aiptasia front, you do have to admire them for their adaptations and just stubborn will to survive. They can readily adapt to vastly different tanks, get abused by owners both intentionally and accidentally, and keep coming back for more. Don't believe me? See for yourself! I've seen aiptasia bounce back almost instantly from insane treatment and all the "tricks" for aiptasia removal (hot water, pickling lime, kalk, Joe's Juice, Tech CB Part B, a direct shot of any pharmaceutical grade (not-natural) calcium, you name it!

However, I always feel the urge to destroy them because, while I love "invasive tanks" (as I call tanks that are intentionally allowed to over-run with a known invasive species to create a lush effect), I'm not a big fan of aiptasia-ridden tanks.

[otrlynn]

Wonderful thread! Sk8r what is it about mushrooms that makes you consider them pests and/or dangerous to corals? Not challenging you, just a newbie question?