Zooanthids are poisonous??

dustybuddy · 12/09/2007, 09:46 PM

I've seen a couple of threads on zooanthids and palytoxin. Someone's dog passed away and zoo's have been suspected of killing clams and neighboring corals. I was wondering if anyone had some more information on that.

DO they kill u if u eat them???

DO they release these poisons into the water and could the poisons leak out into the air??

IF they start to battle with other corals for space in my example...some hairy mushrooms, mushrooms, and star polyps, will they start releasing their poison?

Is that the reason that a LOT of my corals started to die recently??

fishysteve · 12/10/2007, 07:31 AM

Why would you eat them?

landlord · 12/10/2007, 07:34 AM

If you haven't tried the mango infused zooanthid terrine with leeks then you do not know what you're missing.

fishysteve · 12/10/2007, 07:42 AM

landlord - Do you have any other recipes? I like spicy food.

landlord · 12/10/2007, 07:43 AM

I got Betty Crocker's "Sea"food edition

landlord · 12/10/2007, 07:45 AM

...or the ever famous zooanthids with fava beans and a nice chianti.

In any case, yes they do contain toxins, whether they are releasing them to combat for space and that being the reason for the die off of other corals in your tank, I do not know. Those folks in the zoo/paly forum will probably have the answer. I personally simply watch my zoos get devoured by amphipods in my tank.

FWIW --landlord

greenbean36191 · 12/10/2007, 10:26 AM

Palytoxin has been found in some zoanthids. No one knows if it's in all of them or if it even persists in captivity since it's believed that it's dinoflagellates rather than the polyps that actually make the toxin.

The toxin is only released when the polyps are damaged and can only be taken in through mucus membranes and open wounds. It's not injected with a sting and it isn't used for competition. It has nothing to do with the demise of your other corals. Most inverts aren't sensitive to it and in fact many others such as worms, clams, sponges, etc. accumulate it themselves. If you were to eat them you would almost definitely get very sick, but whether you would die or not really isn't known. Most of what we know about the toxicity of palytoxin is inferred from animal studies and a few cases where it's suspected (not confirmed) that shellfish and other seafood had been tainted with it.

kar93 · 12/10/2007, 12:04 PM

Ive only heard of the dog deaths when people frag them and let the dogs roam about freely and they find a polyp and eat it, ive also heard of people fraggin then not washing hands and getting ill - carelesness realy

Frick-n-Frags · 12/10/2007, 06:14 PM

that dog thing was circumstantial. but it is now legend.

TomZogas · 12/10/2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 07kar93
Ive only heard of the dog deaths when people frag them

.....I tried fragging my dog once. I thought that if i left a little bit of the mouth for each half he would be fine.....

flyyyguy · 12/10/2007, 07:07 PM

+1

Frick-n-Frags · 12/10/2007, 07:09 PM

heh

flyyyguy · 12/10/2007, 07:10 PM

I read somewhere.....cant remember where that there have only been two species of palythoa identified that actually carry that deadly palytoxin that can kill you quickly

that being said...i have been sick from fragging polyps on a few occasions.....just headaches and nausea.......certainly didnt almost drop dead by any means

MikeCentore · 12/10/2007, 07:17 PM

I herd that your most likely to get sick if it gets in a cut when you are fragging it.

Frick-n-Frags · 12/10/2007, 07:32 PM

you hear the "metallic taste in your mouth" stories a lot too.

my understanding was that Palythoa grandis (those big sun polyps) are very similar to that hawaiian poison spear paly which for sure has it. anyway, I use uber lab technique when fragging those.

dustybuddy · 12/10/2007, 10:34 PM

can someone post pics of the poisonous types of zoos?

12/09/2007, 09:46 PM	#1
dustybuddy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 242	Zooanthids are poisonous?? I've seen a couple of threads on zooanthids and palytoxin. Someone's dog passed away and zoo's have been suspected of killing clams and neighboring corals. I was wondering if anyone had some more information on that. DO they kill u if u eat them??? DO they release these poisons into the water and could the poisons leak out into the air?? IF they start to battle with other corals for space in my example...some hairy mushrooms, mushrooms, and star polyps, will they start releasing their poison? Is that the reason that a LOT of my corals started to die recently??

12/10/2007, 07:31 AM	#2
fishysteve Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,804	Why would you eat them? __________________ On a break

12/10/2007, 07:34 AM	#3
landlord Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alexandria, KY Posts: 1,937	If you haven't tried the mango infused zooanthid terrine with leeks then you do not know what you're missing. __________________ Forget the Turtle Man, you got the Coral Man Live Action Fragging! Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon SPS Reef (Sump, Fuge, Skimmer, CX reactor, Chemical filtration, Overflow) by Lifereef, 2x400W 20K Radiums on IceCaps, 2x39W T5 "For fun", RK2, 4x Tunze 6055, Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller, DIY RO/DI ATO 2-Part via Litermeter. Lotsa Clownfish

12/10/2007, 07:42 AM	#4
fishysteve Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,804	landlord - Do you have any other recipes? I like spicy food. __________________ On a break

12/10/2007, 07:43 AM	#5
landlord Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alexandria, KY Posts: 1,937	I got Betty Crocker's "Sea"food edition __________________ Forget the Turtle Man, you got the Coral Man Live Action Fragging! Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon SPS Reef (Sump, Fuge, Skimmer, CX reactor, Chemical filtration, Overflow) by Lifereef, 2x400W 20K Radiums on IceCaps, 2x39W T5 "For fun", RK2, 4x Tunze 6055, Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller, DIY RO/DI ATO 2-Part via Litermeter. Lotsa Clownfish

12/10/2007, 07:45 AM	#6
landlord Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alexandria, KY Posts: 1,937	...or the ever famous zooanthids with fava beans and a nice chianti. In any case, yes they do contain toxins, whether they are releasing them to combat for space and that being the reason for the die off of other corals in your tank, I do not know. Those folks in the zoo/paly forum will probably have the answer. I personally simply watch my zoos get devoured by amphipods in my tank. FWIW --landlord __________________ Forget the Turtle Man, you got the Coral Man Live Action Fragging! Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon SPS Reef (Sump, Fuge, Skimmer, CX reactor, Chemical filtration, Overflow) by Lifereef, 2x400W 20K Radiums on IceCaps, 2x39W T5 "For fun", RK2, 4x Tunze 6055, Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller, DIY RO/DI ATO 2-Part via Litermeter. Lotsa Clownfish

12/10/2007, 10:26 AM	#7
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	Palytoxin has been found in some zoanthids. No one knows if it's in all of them or if it even persists in captivity since it's believed that it's dinoflagellates rather than the polyps that actually make the toxin. The toxin is only released when the polyps are damaged and can only be taken in through mucus membranes and open wounds. It's not injected with a sting and it isn't used for competition. It has nothing to do with the demise of your other corals. Most inverts aren't sensitive to it and in fact many others such as worms, clams, sponges, etc. accumulate it themselves. If you were to eat them you would almost definitely get very sick, but whether you would die or not really isn't known. Most of what we know about the toxicity of palytoxin is inferred from animal studies and a few cases where it's suspected (not confirmed) that shellfish and other seafood had been tainted with it. __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up Last edited by greenbean36191; 12/10/2007 at 10:41 AM.

12/10/2007, 12:04 PM	#8
kar93 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lincoln Posts: 5,521	Ive only heard of the dog deaths when people frag them and let the dogs roam about freely and they find a polyp and eat it, ive also heard of people fraggin then not washing hands and getting ill - carelesness realy

12/10/2007, 06:14 PM	#9
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	that dog thing was circumstantial. but it is now legend. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/10/2007, 07:07 PM	#11
flyyyguy King of the white corals Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,239	+1 __________________ I like holding hands, snuggling, and long walks on the beach

12/10/2007, 07:09 PM	#12
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	heh __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/10/2007, 07:10 PM	#13
flyyyguy King of the white corals Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,239	I read somewhere.....cant remember where that there have only been two species of palythoa identified that actually carry that deadly palytoxin that can kill you quickly that being said...i have been sick from fragging polyps on a few occasions.....just headaches and nausea.......certainly didnt almost drop dead by any means __________________ I like holding hands, snuggling, and long walks on the beach

12/10/2007, 07:17 PM	#14
MikeCentore Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 347	I herd that your most likely to get sick if it gets in a cut when you are fragging it. __________________ "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef

12/10/2007, 07:32 PM	#15
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	you hear the "metallic taste in your mouth" stories a lot too. my understanding was that Palythoa grandis (those big sun polyps) are very similar to that hawaiian poison spear paly which for sure has it. anyway, I use uber lab technique when fragging those. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/10/2007, 10:34 PM	#16
dustybuddy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 242	can someone post pics of the poisonous types of zoos?