210 Gallons all over the floor - Help with leveling stand

jrcastro · 12/17/2007, 01:25 PM

Long story short
210G (72X24X29) Tank made by AGA

1st tank - After water & LR added small chip/crack formed on one corner.

2nd tank - Replacement was damaged under the black trim

3rd tank - Tank flooded my garage/viewing room yesterday in about 20minutes.

Bad luck or what!!

Luckily I was able to save all my fish / corals.

My original thought has been the level of my DIY stand.
Although when tank was placed on top of stand, I added water & it was level to the bone.

Other thought was just bad defective AGA tanks.
I am currently waiting for a AGA representative to call me regarding this mis-hap.

In the meanwhile to be 100% certain that the stand is level I was wondering if anybody here used self leveling cement?

Particularly made by Mapei (sold at Lowe's)

http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...ratop_TD_EA.pdf

http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...nEasy_TD_EA.pdf

http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...ratop_TD_EA.pdf

I want to add about 1/2" to the top of my stand to perfectly level things out.

sk8rreefgeek · 12/17/2007, 02:11 PM

I think even if the tank wasn't level, it should still hold fine. I'd be suing if it was me.

nauticac4 · 12/17/2007, 02:14 PM

That kind of weight on the top of a stand will crack and probably cause bigger problems. When the weight of the aquarium hits that concrete the stress will break concrete that thin. If anything make a 4"-6" slab under the stand and make sure that the stand is square and level.

Easier solution - buy a different brand, if I had three failures I'd be looking elsewhere.

wabio · 12/17/2007, 02:15 PM

Can you be more detailed with the breaks? Were they all similar or vastly different?

wabio · 12/17/2007, 02:17 PM

I'd hate to say it, but at this point I'd probably go acrylic if it were me.

Tu Ku · 12/17/2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sk8rreefgeek
I'd be suing if it was me.

Not that nowadays you couldn't win, but what exactly do you think you'd be suing for?! "My own unknown incompetence resulted in me ruining my things." That's a televised Judge Judy episode if there ever was one.

On the original topic, I feel for you. And I'm sure the worst part is not knowing whether it's the brand your using or your own human error, oh yeah, that and losing your 3rd setup. I have an AGA and have never had any structural problems, but working in the fish store, I saw a number of unsatisfied customers, often with the same problems as yourself.

Freed · 12/17/2007, 02:49 PM

I was under the impression that AGA will only guarantee the tanks if they are on an AGA stand that was built for that tank. I could be wrong though.

sterbrock1 · 12/17/2007, 02:56 PM

If your tank is not evenly supported under the tank you can create stress on different parts of the glass or the silicone. Also, if your rock is placed directly on the glass you can create stress points on the glass by points on the rock touching the glass. Don't know if either of these are your issues, but just my thoughts.

To level my tank I first leveled the stand. My final step was to glue (liquid nails) a 1/4 inch sheet of Luan (finished plywood) to the top of the stand. I then immediately put the tank on top of the luan and let dry for several days. I figured this would give me a good evenly distributed pressure along the entire edge of the bottom of the tank.

To keep my rocks from having small pressure points on the glass I put plumbers epoxy at 3 different points on the bottom of each rock that rested on the glass. Lay the rock on a flat surface so it creates 3 nice flat surfaces for the rock to rest on the glass and let harden. The epoxy I used is sold at HD for about $7 and is in a tube about 8 inches long. You break off a piece and mix it in your hand for several minutes, place on the rock and it hardens within less than 10 minuts. Coraline grows very fast on the epoxy.

Good luck. Scott

AquaReeferMan · 12/17/2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freed
I was under the impression that AGA will only guarantee the tanks if they are on an AGA stand that was built for that tank. I could be wrong though.

Im pretty sure thats how it goes with all the tank. At least that is the policy where I work. Warranty only counts if the tank is on a stand made by the same manufacturer.

jetta · 12/17/2007, 03:36 PM

yikes. good luck

Husky_1 · 12/17/2007, 03:50 PM

Man, I hope it all works out for you 210gallons of water is a lot on floor. I would probably look at your stand, I cannot imagine you had 3 bad tanks in a row.

mm949 · 12/17/2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AquaReeferMan
Im pretty sure thats how it goes with all the tank. At least that is the policy where I work. Warranty only counts if the tank is on a stand made by the same manufacturer.

the standard warranty still applies no matter what stand.....they extend the warranty if u use their stand....replacemnt shouldnt be an issue....sounds like a leveling issue..

wakesetter · 12/17/2007, 08:12 PM

I used leveling cement under a tank recently. Actually the contractor used it. came out pretty nice. this is under an in wall 270 gallon tank. That leveling cement is actually pretty cool, its sort of rubberized.

Runfrumu · 12/17/2007, 09:32 PM

I've always heard that if one has a flawand is gonna go, it will do it the first day when you first fill it.

Have you tried a non-drilled with tempered glass maybe?

jrcastro · 12/17/2007, 11:09 PM

Thanks for all the feedbacks & suggestions

AGA does warranty their tanks even if it is not their stand you are using.

I talked with a technical support guy from AGA & he said it might be a temperature issue since this is an inwall setup.

Viewing room is always 65-72 degrees while the garage/back side is anywhere from 50-60 degrees. He said that the glass can contract & since their is a variance in temp it could have caused the tank to give at one of the bottom front seems. He said that they have never tested it but it could be the root cause, kinda sounds believable if glass really contracts?
Sound like BS to me but what do I know.
He also said that it could be a humidity issue in the garage & it could have caused the stand to warp. I doubt this since it has not been setup long enough to have caused it to warp.
They are offering me store credit from the LFS if I wanted, but i am still weighing out my options.

I doubt it is the level of the stand, if it is off it would not be more then an 1/8 " & I dont't think it would cause it to cause a problem.

I was thinking it could have been a pressure point on the bottom of the glass as "sterbrock1" mentioned. Since I have a shallow sand bed 1/2" & about 250pounds of Lr. But if it were it would have cracked at 1 point & shattered the whole bottom pane, since it is a tempered piece of glass.

Still thinking of my options & time will tell to give it up or try again.
Wifey wants no part of it anymore

jay24k · 12/17/2007, 11:44 PM

I'd get my money back. I don't believe a word he says. If that was the case, they would have many more cases and would put a disclaimer on it. Do you see any other type of glass crack in those temps? Exactly.

Mr31415 · 12/18/2007, 01:15 AM

I am no expert but in my mind a tank that is not level, but well built, will NOT break immediately. The pressure works on the seams through time and eventually it might tear it apart. But if it tears apart immediately then the tank was not build right.

I did not see from your replies - but did the seam pop or did the glass crack?

Frick-n-Frags · 12/18/2007, 03:07 AM

un-evenness in the stand(whether level or not) could put a pressure point at the high spot.

after 3 tanks, I personally would suspect I am doing something wrong.

samtheman · 12/18/2007, 07:48 AM

Why wonder? Put a straightedge on the stand and see if it has high or low spots. Being slightly out of level, won't hurt the tank, but it can effect your overflows.
IF the stand is straight, then it has to be another problem.

moogoomoogoo · 12/18/2007, 11:35 AM

I have heard of people placing a relatively thin sheet of styrofoam between the rank and the stand to eliminate any irregularities in the stand surface. Never tried it myself.

jrcastro · 12/18/2007, 12:13 PM

jay24k - I'm with you I didn't believe what he said sounded like BS

Mr31415 - I believe that the seams were defective, since they went out in less then 6 weeks.

Frick-n-Frags - "un-evenness in the stand(whether level or not) could put a pressure point at the high spot." Can you please elaborate on this? This makes kinda makes sense.
It very well could be that the stand is not perfect but leveling out when water is in tank.

BTW it's really only 2 tanks I've had.
1st was defective with a chip that got bigger as i added weight.
2nd was damaged before even putting on stand.
3rd is I don't know what's wrong yet.

samtheman - I've tried many different straightedges with all being level.

I'm at the point where I am considering going acrylic, I got one quoted for about $1200 ouch!! & have to be worried about how easily it scratches.

But for this size tank I'd rather have scratches then 200+ gallons on the floor again.

I just don't think glass tanks are safe anymore, at least when over 200 gallons.

wabio · 12/18/2007, 12:23 PM

Is it possible your stand is somewhat twisted? You could theoretically have all four edges straight as an edge, but the middle might be twisted. Hope I'm not confusing you.

jrcastro · 12/18/2007, 12:27 PM

makes kinda sense, but how would it get twisted? Humidity?
The stand has been up only for 3 months & was painted with oil based paint.

Now that it has been wet, I'd believe that it could get twisted.

Tu Ku · 12/18/2007, 12:47 PM

Leveling is not the issue. If the difference is only an 1/8 in. then I guarantee leveling is not your problem. It's not humidity or temperature, that customer service guy had no clue. It's the tanks! Get them to replace it until it works flawlessly or take your money elsewhere.

ernestlives · 12/18/2007, 01:56 PM

this sucks...but it doesnt sound like BS to me..Cold contracts everything..even glass..sounds plausible to me.

12/17/2007, 01:25 PM	#1
jrcastro Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA. Posts: 456	210 Gallons all over the floor - Help with leveling stand Long story short 210G (72X24X29) Tank made by AGA 1st tank - After water & LR added small chip/crack formed on one corner. 2nd tank - Replacement was damaged under the black trim 3rd tank - Tank flooded my garage/viewing room yesterday in about 20minutes. Bad luck or what!! Luckily I was able to save all my fish / corals. My original thought has been the level of my DIY stand. Although when tank was placed on top of stand, I added water & it was level to the bone. Other thought was just bad defective AGA tanks. I am currently waiting for a AGA representative to call me regarding this mis-hap. In the meanwhile to be 100% certain that the stand is level I was wondering if anybody here used self leveling cement? Particularly made by Mapei (sold at Lowe's) http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...ratop_TD_EA.pdf http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...nEasy_TD_EA.pdf http://www.mapei.it/Referenze/Multi...ratop_TD_EA.pdf I want to add about 1/2" to the top of my stand to perfectly level things out.

12/17/2007, 02:11 PM	#2
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	I think even if the tank wasn't level, it should still hold fine. I'd be suing if it was me. __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

12/17/2007, 02:14 PM	#3
nauticac4 Baby Fish Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,237	That kind of weight on the top of a stand will crack and probably cause bigger problems. When the weight of the aquarium hits that concrete the stress will break concrete that thin. If anything make a 4"-6" slab under the stand and make sure that the stand is square and level. Easier solution - buy a different brand, if I had three failures I'd be looking elsewhere. __________________ Put Wings on it and Let it Fly!!! PBITAWA !!! Current Tank Info: 180 Cube 3x3x3. 29Gallon Sump 20 Gallon Fuge (1) Lumenarc Reflector w. 250W ARO Ballast and - Modded GS1 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return - Vortech MP40W and Swirler Stein

12/17/2007, 02:49 PM	#7
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	I was under the impression that AGA will only guarantee the tanks if they are on an AGA stand that was built for that tank. I could be wrong though. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

12/17/2007, 02:56 PM	#8
sterbrock1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: St. Louis,Mo Posts: 103	If your tank is not evenly supported under the tank you can create stress on different parts of the glass or the silicone. Also, if your rock is placed directly on the glass you can create stress points on the glass by points on the rock touching the glass. Don't know if either of these are your issues, but just my thoughts. To level my tank I first leveled the stand. My final step was to glue (liquid nails) a 1/4 inch sheet of Luan (finished plywood) to the top of the stand. I then immediately put the tank on top of the luan and let dry for several days. I figured this would give me a good evenly distributed pressure along the entire edge of the bottom of the tank. To keep my rocks from having small pressure points on the glass I put plumbers epoxy at 3 different points on the bottom of each rock that rested on the glass. Lay the rock on a flat surface so it creates 3 nice flat surfaces for the rock to rest on the glass and let harden. The epoxy I used is sold at HD for about $7 and is in a tube about 8 inches long. You break off a piece and mix it in your hand for several minutes, place on the rock and it hardens within less than 10 minuts. Coraline grows very fast on the epoxy. Good luck. Scott __________________ Scott 100 gallon BB tank, SPS, LPS, (2) - 250W MH 14000K, 80W actinic supplement, 30 gal sump, counter current skimmer, 5000gal/hr, ro/di water topoff....60 gal fuge, 440W VHO, 950gal/hr

12/17/2007, 02:15 PM	#4
wabio Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 86	Can you be more detailed with the breaks? Were they all similar or vastly different?

12/17/2007, 02:17 PM	#5
wabio Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 86	I'd hate to say it, but at this point I'd probably go acrylic if it were me.

12/17/2007, 03:36 PM	#10
jetta Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cowlesville, NY Posts: 119	yikes. good luck

12/17/2007, 03:50 PM	#11
Husky_1 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South FL Posts: 1,541	Man, I hope it all works out for you 210gallons of water is a lot on floor. I would probably look at your stand, I cannot imagine you had 3 bad tanks in a row. __________________ Out of the hobby, but thinking of rejoining Current Tank Info: 92 Reef, 10 Reef

12/17/2007, 08:12 PM	#13
wakesetter Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,641	I used leveling cement under a tank recently. Actually the contractor used it. came out pretty nice. this is under an in wall 270 gallon tank. That leveling cement is actually pretty cool, its sort of rubberized. Last edited by wakesetter; 12/17/2007 at 08:18 PM.

12/17/2007, 09:32 PM	#14
Runfrumu Hi Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NC Posts: 1,014	I've always heard that if one has a flawand is gonna go, it will do it the first day when you first fill it. Have you tried a non-drilled with tempered glass maybe? __________________ Red Sea Max 130d and 125 gallon mixed reef. Current Tank Info: 125 gallon oceanic tank, Lighthouse Pro XLS, 72" outer orbit fixture, H&S 150-F2000/1 skimmer, H&S 110 Calcium Reactor, Tunze 7096, 2 Tunze 6105's , Tunze Osmolator, Prime 1/4hp drop-in chiller. 5 years running. Red Sea Max, 3 years.

12/17/2007, 11:09 PM	#15
jrcastro Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA. Posts: 456	Thanks for all the feedbacks & suggestions AGA does warranty their tanks even if it is not their stand you are using. I talked with a technical support guy from AGA & he said it might be a temperature issue since this is an inwall setup. Viewing room is always 65-72 degrees while the garage/back side is anywhere from 50-60 degrees. He said that the glass can contract & since their is a variance in temp it could have caused the tank to give at one of the bottom front seems. He said that they have never tested it but it could be the root cause, kinda sounds believable if glass really contracts? Sound like BS to me but what do I know. He also said that it could be a humidity issue in the garage & it could have caused the stand to warp. I doubt this since it has not been setup long enough to have caused it to warp. They are offering me store credit from the LFS if I wanted, but i am still weighing out my options. I doubt it is the level of the stand, if it is off it would not be more then an 1/8 " & I dont't think it would cause it to cause a problem. I was thinking it could have been a pressure point on the bottom of the glass as "sterbrock1" mentioned. Since I have a shallow sand bed 1/2" & about 250pounds of Lr. But if it were it would have cracked at 1 point & shattered the whole bottom pane, since it is a tempered piece of glass. Still thinking of my options & time will tell to give it up or try again. Wifey wants no part of it anymore

12/17/2007, 11:44 PM	#16
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	I'd get my money back. I don't believe a word he says. If that was the case, they would have many more cases and would put a disclaimer on it. Do you see any other type of glass crack in those temps? Exactly.

12/18/2007, 01:15 AM	#17
Mr31415 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Surrey, Canada Posts: 1,926	I am no expert but in my mind a tank that is not level, but well built, will NOT break immediately. The pressure works on the seams through time and eventually it might tear it apart. But if it tears apart immediately then the tank was not build right. I did not see from your replies - but did the seam pop or did the glass crack?

12/18/2007, 03:07 AM	#18
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	un-evenness in the stand(whether level or not) could put a pressure point at the high spot. after 3 tanks, I personally would suspect I am doing something wrong. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/18/2007, 07:48 AM	#19
samtheman Moved On Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 605	Why wonder? Put a straightedge on the stand and see if it has high or low spots. Being slightly out of level, won't hurt the tank, but it can effect your overflows. IF the stand is straight, then it has to be another problem.

12/18/2007, 11:35 AM	#20
moogoomoogoo Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 581	I have heard of people placing a relatively thin sheet of styrofoam between the rank and the stand to eliminate any irregularities in the stand surface. Never tried it myself. __________________ If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail

12/18/2007, 12:13 PM	#21
jrcastro Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA. Posts: 456	jay24k - I'm with you I didn't believe what he said sounded like BS Mr31415 - I believe that the seams were defective, since they went out in less then 6 weeks. Frick-n-Frags - "un-evenness in the stand(whether level or not) could put a pressure point at the high spot." Can you please elaborate on this? This makes kinda makes sense. It very well could be that the stand is not perfect but leveling out when water is in tank. BTW it's really only 2 tanks I've had. 1st was defective with a chip that got bigger as i added weight. 2nd was damaged before even putting on stand. 3rd is I don't know what's wrong yet. samtheman - I've tried many different straightedges with all being level. I'm at the point where I am considering going acrylic, I got one quoted for about $1200 ouch!! & have to be worried about how easily it scratches. But for this size tank I'd rather have scratches then 200+ gallons on the floor again. I just don't think glass tanks are safe anymore, at least when over 200 gallons.

12/18/2007, 12:23 PM	#22
wabio Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 86	Is it possible your stand is somewhat twisted? You could theoretically have all four edges straight as an edge, but the middle might be twisted. Hope I'm not confusing you.

12/18/2007, 12:27 PM	#23
jrcastro Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA. Posts: 456	makes kinda sense, but how would it get twisted? Humidity? The stand has been up only for 3 months & was painted with oil based paint. Now that it has been wet, I'd believe that it could get twisted.

12/18/2007, 12:47 PM	#24
Tu Ku Moved On Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 353	Leveling is not the issue. If the difference is only an 1/8 in. then I guarantee leveling is not your problem. It's not humidity or temperature, that customer service guy had no clue. It's the tanks! Get them to replace it until it works flawlessly or take your money elsewhere.

12/18/2007, 01:56 PM	#25
ernestlives Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 116	this sucks...but it doesnt sound like BS to me..Cold contracts everything..even glass..sounds plausible to me.