Dwarf Angel and Mandarin for my next fish?

ExarKun · 01/17/2008, 08:32 AM

Stocking question for you guys.

After returning my six line for bad behavior I would like to look at getting a few more fish. I figure the bad behavior was based on too small a tank and poor water quality. So let me just say from the beginning, no new fish untill I get my nitrates and algae under control. That doesnt mean I can't start planning my next two fish though.

So on to the questions.

I have done a little research on a couple of fish I am interested in. The Cherub Angel, the Coral Beauty, and the Mandarin Goby.

I know the Mandarin requires more LR than I currently have and a fuge. Do you think he would be ok in my thirty gallon with another 10-20 lbs of LR in the display and another 10 or so in a fuge? What if I was able to get him eating prepared food as well?

As for the angels I would pick one or the other, not both. Some time in the future I would like to have a clam and some coral. I'm thinking mostly LPS and zoas. I have read that it's hit or miss with these fish as far as nipping at corals and clams. What is your experience with these fish? If I keep them well fed would it reduce the chances of them nipping? Is one or the other more prone to nip?

I would also like to know about stocking order. The way I figure it if I want to add the Mandarin I will need probably another year to set up a good population on pods. Would it be a bad idea to add the angel before that? Should I just suck it up and wait to add the angel until after the Mandarin has established himself?

Oh yea my current live stock is numerous snails, crabs, a Skunk Cleaner, a Bi-color Blenny, and a False Perc. No corals or clams yet.

Thanks for the help guys. Cheers!

addicted4life · 01/17/2008, 08:59 AM

I would try and stay away from the angels. I returned a dwarf when he became a bully. I also have a mandarin that is now eating pellets. It has taken about 6months and I started with a fuge full of pods I purchased live. I would only buy a FAT mandarin from the lfs, if it is thin, it will most likely just die.

IceWish · 01/17/2008, 09:13 AM

the Coral Beauty is a really nice and classy fish.. I had a cherub once and i think its the most aggressive angel fish. The manderin will do well in an established tank, you might have to wait a while to get one.you can go with the coral beaut now though .

Sk8r · 01/17/2008, 09:46 AM

A mandarin requires 20g of lush fuge for support...I don't think a 30g will have enough rock for it.

kzickovich · 01/17/2008, 10:27 AM

A mandarine is a nice fish but they are very hard to keep, they hunt and eat all the time, I think a 30 gal. tank is to small for him even if you add food for him.

harryk · 01/17/2008, 12:16 PM

your tanks too small IMO for a mandarin. you won;t hae enough rock for the pods and it will deplete your pod population in no time. I would recommend a minimum of a 75 gallon tank

Harry

uscharalph · 01/17/2008, 12:25 PM

Get a bigger tank if you want a Manadrin.

ExarKun · 01/17/2008, 01:44 PM

So I guess the concensus on the Mandarin is no.

Perhaps in the future when I can afford to set up a larger tank. For now I'm kinda stuck with what I have.

Any ideas on another fish? I was thinking of a yellow watchman goby some type of jawfish. Would they get along with the Bi-Color? Also, keep in mind I'm topless...the tank...is topless. Anywho, would I need to worry about them jumping? Would it be better if I had a canapy to cover the top? I'd like to stay away from a glass top if possible. I really don't like the look of them.

As for the dwarf angel I think I really like the coral beauty. Anything I should know about them before I get my heart set on one?

ahullsb · 01/17/2008, 05:33 PM

I think coral beauties are great looking fish. The only thing you should know is that sometimes they like to nip at your coral. But I think the odds are that it would be fine. A yellow watchman goby is another great fish. You should have no problems keeping that in a tank your size. I would get that over a jawfish, IMO.

Larah · 01/17/2008, 05:40 PM

Pod?

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:06 PM

Can one have more than one tomato clown?

Sk8r · 01/17/2008, 06:17 PM

Tomato clowns are very aggressive---only slightly less so than the maroon, using from 50 to 100g of territory. Two will go sexual and start attacking other tank occupants that may cross them. One, without an anemone, is going to be quiet, by comparison.

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:22 PM

So the percolas are the only ones that I can have as pairs?

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:23 PM

oh and what's a pod?

Sk8r · 01/17/2008, 06:29 PM

You can have tomatoes or maroons: just stand by for them to run the tank. I've had Clarkii's [nearly as bad], been bitten by them, had them chase nearly everything but a blue velvet damsel, and they finally had to go to a breeder before they took my tank apart.
The percs are much better mannered, but may still turn bitey; skunk clowns are the mildest: I've never seen them cause trouble.

A pod is a copepod, small crustacean that grows in a fuge or live rock recesses.

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:30 PM

flame angel? Could that be next for me?

1 tomato clown
1 domino damsel
1 sandsifter goby
1 blennie
1 psedochromis (dottyback)

CUC= 3 hermits, 4 various snails, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 1 starfish...

30 lbs Live Rock
60 gal JEBO tank

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:32 PM

Sk8r, you are my hero!!!
Thank you soooooo much for all the info!
You ROCK!

Larah · 01/17/2008, 06:34 PM

Hmmmm...so maybe a sunk clown and my tomato clown together?????

Sk8r · 01/17/2008, 06:39 PM

I wouldn't, myself, try to mix clown species. It probably happens, but best decide on a species and stay with it. Striped damsel can hold own with a tomato, but you're going to have a lively goings-on if you get another tomato.
If you get a second clown, get the same species and get a smaller one than the one you have. The one you have will always turn out to be female, and the smaller one will stay male. That's clowns for you. They can change gender once in their lives: but the dominant [first] clown is always female, and grows larger.

leoslizards · 01/17/2008, 07:07 PM

I always wanted a mandarin also. Could I keep one in a 55g with a 20g refug and a 30g sump?

ExarKun · 01/18/2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ahullsb
I think coral beauties are great looking fish. The only thing you should know is that sometimes they like to nip at your coral. But I think the odds are that it would be fine. A yellow watchman goby is another great fish. You should have no problems keeping that in a tank your size. I would get that over a jawfish, IMO.

At the moment I have two polyps of zoa's that came in on my LR and survived the cycle, not sure what type. They haven't really grown much in the year that I have had them. They also haven't gotten any worse. I don't have much LR rock at the moment so if I put in a Coral Beauty and he starts going after the zoa's it won't be to hard to remove him.

I do like the YWG a lot. I'd try and get one paired with a pistol if possible. Although I don't know if my substrate could support a burrow. It's a smaller grained sand so they might have some difficulty keeping the burrow from caving in. Maybe I'll bury some tubes of PVC to make it easier for them? I'm also going to build a canopy just to be on the safe side. I wouldn't want anything to take up carpet surfing as a hobby.

I hadn't realized the Maroon Clowns were the most aggresive. There's a store near me that has a pair for sale. They are both great looking fish but they want $100 bucks for the two of them. That's a little steep for my budget.

01/17/2008, 08:32 AM	#1
ExarKun Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 31	Dwarf Angel and Mandarin for my next fish? Stocking question for you guys. After returning my six line for bad behavior I would like to look at getting a few more fish. I figure the bad behavior was based on too small a tank and poor water quality. So let me just say from the beginning, no new fish untill I get my nitrates and algae under control. That doesnt mean I can't start planning my next two fish though. So on to the questions. I have done a little research on a couple of fish I am interested in. The Cherub Angel, the Coral Beauty, and the Mandarin Goby. I know the Mandarin requires more LR than I currently have and a fuge. Do you think he would be ok in my thirty gallon with another 10-20 lbs of LR in the display and another 10 or so in a fuge? What if I was able to get him eating prepared food as well? As for the angels I would pick one or the other, not both. Some time in the future I would like to have a clam and some coral. I'm thinking mostly LPS and zoas. I have read that it's hit or miss with these fish as far as nipping at corals and clams. What is your experience with these fish? If I keep them well fed would it reduce the chances of them nipping? Is one or the other more prone to nip? I would also like to know about stocking order. The way I figure it if I want to add the Mandarin I will need probably another year to set up a good population on pods. Would it be a bad idea to add the angel before that? Should I just suck it up and wait to add the angel until after the Mandarin has established himself? Oh yea my current live stock is numerous snails, crabs, a Skunk Cleaner, a Bi-color Blenny, and a False Perc. No corals or clams yet. Thanks for the help guys. Cheers!

01/17/2008, 08:59 AM	#2
addicted4life Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Indy Posts: 149	I would try and stay away from the angels. I returned a dwarf when he became a bully. I also have a mandarin that is now eating pellets. It has taken about 6months and I started with a fuge full of pods I purchased live. I would only buy a FAT mandarin from the lfs, if it is thin, it will most likely just die. __________________ Brian Current Tank Info: 180 reef, T5 x 8, 40g frag tank T5 x 6, 50g sump, G3, Apex surfing 6100's

01/17/2008, 09:46 AM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	A mandarin requires 20g of lush fuge for support...I don't think a 30g will have enough rock for it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/17/2008, 10:27 AM	#5
kzickovich Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Zion Il Posts: 959	A mandarine is a nice fish but they are very hard to keep, they hunt and eat all the time, I think a 30 gal. tank is to small for him even if you add food for him. __________________ Ken Current Tank Info: 90 Gal mixed reef 55 Gallon basement pump up Sump 25 Gal fuge 2 Mp40 DIY led light fixture Bubble King Mini 200 Gen2 skimmer BRS Duel reactor

01/17/2008, 12:25 PM	#7
uscharalph Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 1,248	Get a bigger tank if you want a Manadrin. __________________ Ralph Mendoza Jr. Long Beach, CA Current Tank Info: 80 Gallon Reef Tank

01/17/2008, 09:13 AM	#3
IceWish Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Main Tank Fingering Frags Posts: 117	the Coral Beauty is a really nice and classy fish.. I had a cherub once and i think its the most aggressive angel fish. The manderin will do well in an established tank, you might have to wait a while to get one.you can go with the coral beaut now though .

01/17/2008, 12:16 PM	#6
harryk Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 262	your tanks too small IMO for a mandarin. you won;t hae enough rock for the pods and it will deplete your pod population in no time. I would recommend a minimum of a 75 gallon tank Harry

01/17/2008, 01:44 PM	#8
ExarKun Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 31	So I guess the concensus on the Mandarin is no. Perhaps in the future when I can afford to set up a larger tank. For now I'm kinda stuck with what I have. Any ideas on another fish? I was thinking of a yellow watchman goby some type of jawfish. Would they get along with the Bi-Color? Also, keep in mind I'm topless...the tank...is topless. Anywho, would I need to worry about them jumping? Would it be better if I had a canapy to cover the top? I'd like to stay away from a glass top if possible. I really don't like the look of them. As for the dwarf angel I think I really like the coral beauty. Anything I should know about them before I get my heart set on one?

01/17/2008, 05:33 PM	#9
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	I think coral beauties are great looking fish. The only thing you should know is that sometimes they like to nip at your coral. But I think the odds are that it would be fine. A yellow watchman goby is another great fish. You should have no problems keeping that in a tank your size. I would get that over a jawfish, IMO. __________________ Andy Sacramento, CA Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef w/20 gallon sump/ER135/ 75 pounds of live rock, 4 in sandbed, 2 b&w ocellaris clowns, yellow watchman/pistol, rosy scaled wrasse, Mystery wrasse, Copperbanded Butterfly, Lighting 48" outer orbit 2 150 mh/ 4 t5 actinics

01/17/2008, 05:40 PM	#10
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	Pod?

01/17/2008, 06:06 PM	#11
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	Can one have more than one tomato clown?

01/17/2008, 06:17 PM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Tomato clowns are very aggressive---only slightly less so than the maroon, using from 50 to 100g of territory. Two will go sexual and start attacking other tank occupants that may cross them. One, without an anemone, is going to be quiet, by comparison. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/17/2008, 06:22 PM	#13
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	So the percolas are the only ones that I can have as pairs?

01/17/2008, 06:23 PM	#14
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	oh and what's a pod?

01/17/2008, 06:29 PM	#15
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	You can have tomatoes or maroons: just stand by for them to run the tank. I've had Clarkii's [nearly as bad], been bitten by them, had them chase nearly everything but a blue velvet damsel, and they finally had to go to a breeder before they took my tank apart. The percs are much better mannered, but may still turn bitey; skunk clowns are the mildest: I've never seen them cause trouble. A pod is a copepod, small crustacean that grows in a fuge or live rock recesses. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/17/2008, 06:30 PM	#16
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	flame angel? Could that be next for me? 1 tomato clown 1 domino damsel 1 sandsifter goby 1 blennie 1 psedochromis (dottyback) CUC= 3 hermits, 4 various snails, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 1 starfish... 30 lbs Live Rock 60 gal JEBO tank

01/17/2008, 06:32 PM	#17
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	Sk8r, you are my hero!!! Thank you soooooo much for all the info! You ROCK!

01/17/2008, 06:34 PM	#18
Larah Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, Oregon USA Posts: 1,932	Hmmmm...so maybe a sunk clown and my tomato clown together?????

01/17/2008, 06:39 PM	#19
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I wouldn't, myself, try to mix clown species. It probably happens, but best decide on a species and stay with it. Striped damsel can hold own with a tomato, but you're going to have a lively goings-on if you get another tomato. If you get a second clown, get the same species and get a smaller one than the one you have. The one you have will always turn out to be female, and the smaller one will stay male. That's clowns for you. They can change gender once in their lives: but the dominant [first] clown is always female, and grows larger. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/17/2008, 07:07 PM	#20
leoslizards Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 394	I always wanted a mandarin also. Could I keep one in a 55g with a 20g refug and a 30g sump?