live rock vs. reef

BIGSSSS · 02/14/2008, 01:42 PM

ok another stupid question, I think at this point I have seen and recognize what a reef tank is. I mentioned I wanted to start with just a plain SW set up but people here are advising me to go with "fish and live rock". Please explain to me the difference between reef and fish w/ live rock and why people are advising me to go in that direction? What is live rock I'm assuming it,s not live coral !

cbrguy · 02/14/2008, 01:49 PM

Live rock is just "rock" that has beneficial bacteria on it. It comes from a reef and is usually very porous. You can also get base rock with is dry rock that once placed in an aqauirum will turn into live rock. If you go with a Fish and live rock you wonâ€™t need as much light and you can keep more types of fish. With a reef you will not be able to keep as many fish and you will need much more light and equiment

mbbuna · 02/14/2008, 01:53 PM

a "reef tank" just means that you plan on keeping corals

the main biological filter in both a reef tank and a fish only with live rock tank is the live rock its self.

BIGSSSS · 02/14/2008, 02:00 PM

so are you saying that if you have plenty of live rock that the only other thing you need is plenty of water movement ?

seapug · 02/14/2008, 02:00 PM

Live Rock is essentially limestone based rock that is collected from reefs. It's basically the fused skeletons of dead corals that is porous and contains various types of beneficial bacteria and microfauna that are part of a healthy captive ecosystem. There are often beneficial snails and hardy coral polyps as well. Liverock can establish a population of bacteria in a tank that keep your water clean, fish fed and helps maintain a natural ocean-like pH. Like CBR guy said, any calcium based rock that is kept with wild collected live rock for a period of time will eventually harbor the same bacteria and microfauna.

BIGSSSS · 02/14/2008, 02:02 PM

is this rock i'm assumimg purchased at the LFS ?

mbbuna · 02/14/2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BIGSSSS
is this rock i'm assumimg purchased at the LFS ?

yes but you can get it on-line also

http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.co...x?CategoryId=5

Tswifty · 02/14/2008, 02:52 PM

A good generic estimate is about 1lb of LR per gallon, and you want a decent amount of flow through your tank. I use 2 hydor koralia 3's on my 55g FOWLR on opposite ends of the tank pointed at each other. Also probably a 2-3" sand bed of medium grade argonite sand.

That's a pretty generic start for about any type of saltwater tank.

FOWLR - Fish Only With Live Rock simply means you are not keeping corals.

Live rock and the sand bed serve as the primary biological filter for you tank.

haywood2 · 02/14/2008, 03:05 PM

Like I said in your other post, even with the live rock I would still get atleast a HOB filter and a protein skimmer. Just my $.02

Tswifty · 02/14/2008, 03:11 PM

If you go the LR direction you can get away without the HOB filter, however they are nice if you do not utilize a sump/filter sock to remove particles from your water...

As far as the protein skimmer goes... this is a necessity... and not one you want to skimp on... If someone tells you to buy a seaclone, walk away and don't listen to another word they say...

Check out: AquaC, Euro-Reef, or Octopus NW skimmers...

2 areas you def get what you pay for:
1. Lights
2. Skimmer

haywood2 · 02/14/2008, 03:12 PM

Like I said in your other post, even with the live rock I would still get atleast a HOB filter and a protein skimmer. Just my $.02

haywood2 · 02/14/2008, 03:12 PM

oopps

Rebel792 · 01/27/2016, 04:50 PM

Ok, so live rock is a base for a reef tank, so how do I go from a live rock tank to a reef tank? im a little confused on that part.

A.Astore · 01/27/2016, 05:19 PM

All you do is add coral and the necessary things to provide the water quality and light needed to go from FOWLR (fish and live rock) to reef. Granted, you may to pull some of the inhabitants out from the FOWLR to be able to have a reef because some fish and inverts don't go well with a reef environment. Generally, one of the largest changes will be the lighting needed.

If you start with a good skimmer and are able to maintain the needed parms such as calcium, alk, and mag along with clean water the main addition would be the correct lights and coral to shift to a reef from a FOWLR setup.

Reef= coral in addition to FOWLR
FOWLR= fish and live rock
Fish only= no rock that can host bacteria with fish

snorklr · 01/27/2016, 07:54 PM

many corals contain zooxanthellae, a photosynthetic algae that lives symbiotically within the coral....by providing adequate light,these algae produce nutrients which in turn feed the coral....so you sort of have to treat it like a plant....not enough light and the coral dies...that and corals are a lot less forgiving to poor water quality than fish... and they pull calcium out of the water to build their skeletons....so the principles are the same for either but corals need more precision on their conditions and usually additional equipment to monitor and achieve those conditions

Mrramsey · 01/29/2016, 06:33 AM

IN Short:

FOWLR (Fish Only with Live Rock)
Tank, Live Rock (filtration), Sump or HOB Filter, Light for you to see the fish

Reef:
Tank, Live Rock, Corals, Fish if desired, Sump, Protein Skimmer, High Quality lighting that can support coral growth etc (by far not the complete list as it depends on what you are doing)

Reef tanks require more in the area of lighting and water conditions whereas a FOWLR is a little more forgiving and a simpler setup to maintain. Thus some poeple start with a FOWLR and move up to a reef.

chilli_reef · 01/29/2016, 07:43 AM

Holy 8 year old thread bat man lol !!

But hey at last they are searching on their own

02/14/2008, 01:42 PM	#1
BIGSSSS Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SOUTHERN N.J. Posts: 24	live rock vs. reef ok another stupid question, I think at this point I have seen and recognize what a reef tank is. I mentioned I wanted to start with just a plain SW set up but people here are advising me to go with "fish and live rock". Please explain to me the difference between reef and fish w/ live rock and why people are advising me to go in that direction? What is live rock I'm assuming it,s not live coral !

02/14/2008, 02:00 PM	#5
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	Live Rock is essentially limestone based rock that is collected from reefs. It's basically the fused skeletons of dead corals that is porous and contains various types of beneficial bacteria and microfauna that are part of a healthy captive ecosystem. There are often beneficial snails and hardy coral polyps as well. Liverock can establish a population of bacteria in a tank that keep your water clean, fish fed and helps maintain a natural ocean-like pH. Like CBR guy said, any calcium based rock that is kept with wild collected live rock for a period of time will eventually harbor the same bacteria and microfauna. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

02/14/2008, 02:52 PM	#8
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	A good generic estimate is about 1lb of LR per gallon, and you want a decent amount of flow through your tank. I use 2 hydor koralia 3's on my 55g FOWLR on opposite ends of the tank pointed at each other. Also probably a 2-3" sand bed of medium grade argonite sand. That's a pretty generic start for about any type of saltwater tank. FOWLR - Fish Only With Live Rock simply means you are not keeping corals. Live rock and the sand bed serve as the primary biological filter for you tank. __________________ "Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover

02/14/2008, 03:11 PM	#10
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	If you go the LR direction you can get away without the HOB filter, however they are nice if you do not utilize a sump/filter sock to remove particles from your water... As far as the protein skimmer goes... this is a necessity... and not one you want to skimp on... If someone tells you to buy a seaclone, walk away and don't listen to another word they say... Check out: AquaC, Euro-Reef, or Octopus NW skimmers... 2 areas you def get what you pay for: 1. Lights 2. Skimmer __________________ "Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover

01/29/2016, 06:33 AM	#16
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	IN Short: FOWLR (Fish Only with Live Rock) Tank, Live Rock (filtration), Sump or HOB Filter, Light for you to see the fish Reef: Tank, Live Rock, Corals, Fish if desired, Sump, Protein Skimmer, High Quality lighting that can support coral growth etc (by far not the complete list as it depends on what you are doing) Reef tanks require more in the area of lighting and water conditions whereas a FOWLR is a little more forgiving and a simpler setup to maintain. Thus some poeple start with a FOWLR and move up to a reef. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

02/14/2008, 01:49 PM	#2
cbrguy Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 493	Live rock is just "rock" that has beneficial bacteria on it. It comes from a reef and is usually very porous. You can also get base rock with is dry rock that once placed in an aqauirum will turn into live rock. If you go with a Fish and live rock you wonâ€™t need as much light and you can keep more types of fish. With a reef you will not be able to keep as many fish and you will need much more light and equiment

02/14/2008, 01:53 PM	#3
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	a "reef tank" just means that you plan on keeping corals the main biological filter in both a reef tank and a fish only with live rock tank is the live rock its self.

02/14/2008, 02:02 PM	#6
BIGSSSS Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SOUTHERN N.J. Posts: 24	is this rock i'm assumimg purchased at the LFS ?

02/14/2008, 03:05 PM	#9
haywood2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: southern nj Posts: 231	Like I said in your other post, even with the live rock I would still get atleast a HOB filter and a protein skimmer. Just my $.02

02/14/2008, 03:12 PM	#11
haywood2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: southern nj Posts: 231	Like I said in your other post, even with the live rock I would still get atleast a HOB filter and a protein skimmer. Just my $.02

01/27/2016, 04:50 PM	#13
Rebel792 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 4	Ok, so live rock is a base for a reef tank, so how do I go from a live rock tank to a reef tank? im a little confused on that part.

01/27/2016, 05:19 PM	#14
A.Astore Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Waynesboro, VA Posts: 418	All you do is add coral and the necessary things to provide the water quality and light needed to go from FOWLR (fish and live rock) to reef. Granted, you may to pull some of the inhabitants out from the FOWLR to be able to have a reef because some fish and inverts don't go well with a reef environment. Generally, one of the largest changes will be the lighting needed. If you start with a good skimmer and are able to maintain the needed parms such as calcium, alk, and mag along with clean water the main addition would be the correct lights and coral to shift to a reef from a FOWLR setup. Reef= coral in addition to FOWLR FOWLR= fish and live rock Fish only= no rock that can host bacteria with fish

01/27/2016, 07:54 PM	#15
snorklr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lynbrook ny Posts: 113	many corals contain zooxanthellae, a photosynthetic algae that lives symbiotically within the coral....by providing adequate light,these algae produce nutrients which in turn feed the coral....so you sort of have to treat it like a plant....not enough light and the coral dies...that and corals are a lot less forgiving to poor water quality than fish... and they pull calcium out of the water to build their skeletons....so the principles are the same for either but corals need more precision on their conditions and usually additional equipment to monitor and achieve those conditions

01/29/2016, 07:43 AM	#17
chilli_reef Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Chillicothe Ohio Posts: 468	Holy 8 year old thread bat man lol !! But hey at last they are searching on their own __________________ "But did you die !" Current Tank Info: 75g nondrilled reef.