Don't let me screw up!

jriechel · 03/07/2008, 02:17 PM

I'm planning my first SW tank and have been reading daily the treads/archives here on RC. Just when I think I've got a sound plan, I read something that makes me start all over again. I bet I'm the only one to which this has ever happened.

Rather than picking a tank, trying to fit equipment to it, then deciding what I'll put in, I'm going to trying doing this project the other way around. I'm about ready to pull the trigger, so any feedback or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

First of all, I want a Volitans lionfish. This is non-negotiable. I would like to also have a Picasso trigger, Harlequin Tuskfish, either a Snowflake of Golden Morey, and a Miniatus Grouper. I'm skeptical about the grouper due to size/bioload issues, though I would be very disappointed to give one up.

I'm planning on a 180gal with about the same number of pounds of LR. I could really use some help with that. I've read LR ratios from half that to double. Sump with fuge (size??) and tumbling cheato. Skimmer (no, I won't ask for a recommendation; yet. But feel free). Compact fluorescent light, probably a couple of 55W at 6700K.

That's it so far. I'm having the most difficulty determining the effective rates of nutrient export between LR, skimmer and cheato, which makes knowing how to size/choose these components very difficult.

Suggestions or thoughts? Thanks for the help.

WinnipegDragon · 03/07/2008, 02:21 PM

I'm assuming that you are talking about a FOWLR here?

Bebo77 · 03/07/2008, 02:25 PM

can you put all of those guys in a 180 together? seems to small...

Fish_wiz2 · 03/07/2008, 02:26 PM

Your tank will be FOWLR (fish-only with liverock) but really predator.
Here's what you need:
1. 200 gal tank (180 is fine but these fish get big)
2. sump w/refugium (cheato)
3. LR 200 lbs (1 lbs per gallon is a rule of thumb you can have as much as you want but more and no less).
4. Skimmer (any is fine just but make sure it handles your tank)
5. Do 2 96 watt PC's for FOWLR also do 50/50's (10,000K daylight and 460 or 420 nm actinic).

Michael · 03/07/2008, 02:27 PM

your suggested setup could not be kept in a proper reef, most of the fish you wany would destroy corals and sensitive inverts, the trgger is gorgeous but a totally aggressive species with corals, in fact most of the fish you want would eat corals and inverts

LPDK91 · 03/07/2008, 02:27 PM

I started of with a loin fish my first go around. They are east to take care of and make great pets. Just don't get stung. Worst pain I have ever felt. Anyway I had to triggers and a shunk grouper in the same 150. I had high nitrates around 20 ppm but it did not harm anything. Most fish can handle high nitrates with out harm. I read up to 30 ppm. I feed my lion silversides once every other day. He and the grouper were pigs and grew fast. As far as the eel goes I would go with the snowflake. I have one in my reef set up now. Very passive towards takemates. Good luck and enjoy

papagimp · 03/07/2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jriechel
I bet I'm the only one to which this has ever happened.

yup, only person this ever happened to

(I think most of us understand all to well, lol)

Great job trying to research properly ahead of time. not alot of people take the time and effort to do so.

I'll assume FOWLR as well, since the lighting won't be enough in a tank like that for any corals but the non-photosythetic ones or the most lowest light ones you can find.

Not sure on the fish selection. I believe most will be okay in a tank that size, but compatibility I'm just not sure on.

for live rock, since it's a 180 your thinking about, I'd reocmmend at LEAST 180lbs of live rock. The "recommendation" is for 1-2lbs per gallon. I know fowlr can handle a little less but you have some LARGE fish listed there and will have a LARGE bioload to go with, too much rock will be far better than not enough in this situation.

sump/fuge, get the largest you can fit into your stand and still have room to comfortably work on the system. if you can only get a 55g in there, so be it, if you could squeeze a 300g under it, even better. More is better with fuges/sumps sizes. the larger the overall water volume the more room for error you have.

Determining rates of nutrient exportation can be very difficult since each setup will be unique. Alot of this will just come from experience and trial/error cases. Larger skimmer, something for 250+gallons at least, Plenty of live rock (at least 1lb per gallon) and the largest sump/fuge possible and you should do just fine. Keep in mind the rock, skimmer, and cheato are all going to perform differnt types of filtration, so all three are equally important. The rock is going to convert ammonia and nitrites, if you have enough to support sufficient anerobic zones, it'll assist with nitrate removal as well. The cheato will help with nitrates and phosphates, the skimmer on the other hands wil help remove a wide variety of organics and nitrate/phosphate causing stuff from the water. Leaving any one of these things out in a heavy bioload system can be asking for trouble.

Pulp Fishin · 03/07/2008, 02:34 PM

A genuine first time poster here on RC well then...

To Reef Central

WinnipegDragon · 03/07/2008, 02:40 PM

I was going to say the 180 might be too small for all these aggressive fish, but I am not very well read on predators.

Do some research on that stocking list.

cpl40475 · 03/07/2008, 06:04 PM

a 75 gallon or 125 6ft long will fit under the 180 stand. I have a 55 under mine. I would have had a 75 but I opened my mouth and inserted my foot whenI bought the 180 lol.
Tracy

jriechel · 03/07/2008, 07:31 PM

Thanks for the quick feedback. Several responses questioned the tank-type, if you will. I supposed FOWLR fits as well as any, but even that term is somewhat ambiguous to me. I understand that it is not unusual to have inverts arrive with LR. As fish will be an addition after establishing the tank, and as I was told by Tampa Bay Saltwater, some inverts will get eaten, some will survive. Fish Only? We'll see. I don't plan on adding specific coral for this tank, though.

I have a follow-up on the LR ratio. The 1-2lbs/gal seems to be the recommendation for piles of rock, which seems to me to be inefficient for good water flow. I have seen "hollow" aquascapes that purport to achieve very high flow-through rates with almost the entire surface area exposed to current. In this case, it seems that a much lower ratio is possible. If not, then the rock will occupy more room that the open space.

Is this accurate, or am I missing something significant (a common problem for me)?

Additionally, the 1-2lbs/gal, is that determined on the display gallonage or the total including sump and fuge?

03/07/2008, 02:17 PM	#1
jriechel Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Snohomish, WA Posts: 41	Don't let me screw up! I'm planning my first SW tank and have been reading daily the treads/archives here on RC. Just when I think I've got a sound plan, I read something that makes me start all over again. I bet I'm the only one to which this has ever happened. Rather than picking a tank, trying to fit equipment to it, then deciding what I'll put in, I'm going to trying doing this project the other way around. I'm about ready to pull the trigger, so any feedback or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. First of all, I want a Volitans lionfish. This is non-negotiable. I would like to also have a Picasso trigger, Harlequin Tuskfish, either a Snowflake of Golden Morey, and a Miniatus Grouper. I'm skeptical about the grouper due to size/bioload issues, though I would be very disappointed to give one up. I'm planning on a 180gal with about the same number of pounds of LR. I could really use some help with that. I've read LR ratios from half that to double. Sump with fuge (size??) and tumbling cheato. Skimmer (no, I won't ask for a recommendation; yet. But feel free). Compact fluorescent light, probably a couple of 55W at 6700K. That's it so far. I'm having the most difficulty determining the effective rates of nutrient export between LR, skimmer and cheato, which makes knowing how to size/choose these components very difficult. Suggestions or thoughts? Thanks for the help.

03/07/2008, 02:21 PM	#2
WinnipegDragon Canuckian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 1,276	I'm assuming that you are talking about a FOWLR here? __________________ Working on a neeew tank! http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25596043

03/07/2008, 02:25 PM	#3
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	can you put all of those guys in a 180 together? seems to small... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

03/07/2008, 02:26 PM	#4
Fish_wiz2 Mangroves are kool. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,246	Your tank will be FOWLR (fish-only with liverock) but really predator. Here's what you need: 1. 200 gal tank (180 is fine but these fish get big) 2. sump w/refugium (cheato) 3. LR 200 lbs (1 lbs per gallon is a rule of thumb you can have as much as you want but more and no less). 4. Skimmer (any is fine just but make sure it handles your tank) 5. Do 2 96 watt PC's for FOWLR also do 50/50's (10,000K daylight and 460 or 420 nm actinic). __________________ -The Wiz Current Tank Info: Elos Mini Seahorse Tank, 2500 gallon Koi pond

03/07/2008, 02:27 PM	#5
Michael NTTH Rookie Help Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester, England,UK Posts: 7,808 Blog Entries: 6	your suggested setup could not be kept in a proper reef, most of the fish you wany would destroy corals and sensitive inverts, the trgger is gorgeous but a totally aggressive species with corals, in fact most of the fish you want would eat corals and inverts __________________ Don't be afraid to ask questions, we in the new to the hobby are here to help you [For My Tank Spec,Photo Album,Articles and website, click on my name] MY Very Kindest and Warmest Regards , MIKE Current Tank Info: I have a 92 gal Corner Tank, and way too many pieces of equipment to list really, (proud member of the reef central corner club)

03/07/2008, 02:27 PM	#6
LPDK91 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: ASHLAND OHIO Posts: 253	I started of with a loin fish my first go around. They are east to take care of and make great pets. Just don't get stung. Worst pain I have ever felt. Anyway I had to triggers and a shunk grouper in the same 150. I had high nitrates around 20 ppm but it did not harm anything. Most fish can handle high nitrates with out harm. I read up to 30 ppm. I feed my lion silversides once every other day. He and the grouper were pigs and grew fast. As far as the eel goes I would go with the snowflake. I have one in my reef set up now. Very passive towards takemates. Good luck and enjoy

03/07/2008, 02:34 PM	#8
Pulp Fishin Were all mad here. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: London Ontario Canada Posts: 608	A genuine first time poster here on RC well then... *To Reef Central* __________________ Reef Central Corner Club Aquarium Dumpster Diver Extraordinaire Money talks, mine says "Good-Bye" Current Tank Info: RIP:60g Pentagon Reef 100lbs LR 20g Sump Deltec Mce 600 Mag 750 250W Metal Halide & 2x39W T5's Phosban ReactorX2 5gal refugium 36xTO RIP:135G FOWLER /Agressive

03/07/2008, 02:40 PM	#9
WinnipegDragon Canuckian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 1,276	I was going to say the 180 might be too small for all these aggressive fish, but I am not very well read on predators. Do some research on that stocking list. __________________ Working on a neeew tank! http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25596043

03/07/2008, 06:04 PM	#10
cpl40475 Just hanging out Join Date: May 2007 Location: ky Posts: 786	a 75 gallon or 125 6ft long will fit under the 180 stand. I have a 55 under mine. I would have had a 75 but I opened my mouth and inserted my foot whenI bought the 180 lol. Tracy __________________ Im just a redneck in a city slickers lifestyle Current Tank Info: WORKING ON IT

03/07/2008, 07:31 PM	#11
jriechel Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Snohomish, WA Posts: 41	Thanks for the quick feedback. Several responses questioned the tank-type, if you will. I supposed FOWLR fits as well as any, but even that term is somewhat ambiguous to me. I understand that it is not unusual to have inverts arrive with LR. As fish will be an addition after establishing the tank, and as I was told by Tampa Bay Saltwater, some inverts will get eaten, some will survive. Fish Only? We'll see. I don't plan on adding specific coral for this tank, though. I have a follow-up on the LR ratio. The 1-2lbs/gal seems to be the recommendation for piles of rock, which seems to me to be inefficient for good water flow. I have seen "hollow" aquascapes that purport to achieve very high flow-through rates with almost the entire surface area exposed to current. In this case, it seems that a much lower ratio is possible. If not, then the rock will occupy more room that the open space. Is this accurate, or am I missing something significant (a common problem for me)? Additionally, the 1-2lbs/gal, is that determined on the display gallonage or the total including sump and fuge?