Murky Waters

jh05gv · 03/12/2008, 08:04 AM

I am starting up a reef tank and am new to the hobby. I bought most of my equipment used on Craig's List - tank, stand, sump, skimmer, pumps, rock, and sand. I bought new my lights and RO-DI system.

To provide some background on my process, I placed my dry rock into the tank and created a reef scape with a solid base. The rock that I purchased from CL had been dry for some time, probably months.

Then I added the sand. The sand I had purchased was moist but I can't say it was really wet.

Then I put in my RO-DI water that I had mixed the day before and had aerated overnight. When I tested the salinity in the tank, it was a bit low (probably due to temperature differences) so I added salt directly into the tank (Kent's Sea Salt). I now have the correct salinity - 1.020 @72.2F.

Initially things looked great. There was some cloudiness but I attributed that to sand being disturbed. After a day, the water got worse. It is now really murky with a drab/olive-like tint.

I'd like to know what caused this? Is it the bacteria decay from the rock? Something left over from the sand? My plan is to change out the water with tap-water + salt mix to see if the problem reoccurs, then change out the tap water with RO-DI water. Does that seem ok?

Aquarist007 · 03/12/2008, 08:17 AM

To Reef Central

my first inference would be the moist sand you bought. You are better off to buy a good quality argonite sand from the start and seed it with one cup of sand from someones established tank.
I am assuming this was sold as "live sand" but who really knows where it has been and what is in it ect?

suggestion only

drain the tank , take the live rock out, put newly rinsed argonite down first then add your live rock
(some reefers will put down egg crate between the rock and glass bottom of the tank then add the rock and finally the sand)

BTW
your salt water should be 1.026 at 78 degrees

Aquarist007 · 03/12/2008, 08:20 AM

were your lights on full also--during the cycling phase they really only need to be on a max of three hours

to fully answer your questions--the green in the water is the sign of an algae bloom. algae needs phosphates and nitrates for fuel and light energy
I suspect the big spike in those came from the substrate rather the the live rock in that short of time
if you used tap water then you probably added a good deal of phosphates

jh05gv · 03/12/2008, 10:04 AM

Thanks for your reply. I used RO-DI water originally and was only planning on using tab water to change out the existing water in there now so I don't waste the "good" water.

So on your suggestion on replacing the sand, I will do that... this weekend. I'll drain the water during the week though so that the algae doesn't "infect" the rock. For the argonite sand, is there a brand that you recommend or would stay away from?

I also have a question on your process though. Most of what I read and from what people tell me is that I should put the rock down first to get a good solid base, then the sand. You don't see a problem with rocks shifting due to critters digging?

Also the egg crate that you mentioned. Where do you get that? LFS? This is that black/grey foam stuff right?

For the lights, I didn't even turn them on. I'll do that after I replace the sand.

Thanks much. It was very discouraging for me to see the murky water but now I have hope.

Mike Murphy · 03/12/2008, 10:59 AM

How long has the tank been set up? I ran mine 60 days beforre I put in any rock and it was live and partially cured but went another 30 before my first fish. It sounds like you have done this in a matter of days. If that is the case just be patient. That alone is the best virtue you can have in this hobby as it will assure more success & happiness and less disappointments.

Do you have a basic beginers handbook on reefing? If not get one and read it more than once just to feel comfortable with what you are doing.

Tank cycling and bio loading are difficult for many because of the excitement pending to get things up and running for all the neat stuff you can buy.

I spent 10 years in the hobby when we did not have any idea about live rock or deep sand beds. I got back in the hobby 2 years ago with a 27 and a 55 both with fresh cured live rock and running a sump as well as Caulerpa. I keep a light bioload and water parameters with just a skimmer are great. I even went 7 months without a water change although I would not reccommend it. PH is 8.3, No Amonia, nitrates or nitrites. The cloudiness is probably due to a bacterial bloom. I'd just let it cycle and do it's thing before changing any water. It will gradually clear itself up. I'm assuming you have no livestock at the moment?

Aquarist007 · 03/12/2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Murphy
How long has the tank been set up? I ran mine 60 days beforre I put in any rock and it was live and partially cured but went another 30 before my first fish. It sounds like you have done this in a matter of days. If that is the case just be patient. That alone is the best virtue you can have in this hobby as it will assure more success & happiness and less disappointments.

Do you have a basic beginers handbook on reefing? If not get one and read it more than once just to feel comfortable with what you are doing.

Tank cycling and bio loading are difficult for many because of the excitement pending to get things up and running for all the neat stuff you can buy.

I spent 10 years in the hobby when we did not have any idea about live rock or deep sand beds. I got back in the hobby 2 years ago with a 27 and a 55 both with fresh cured live rock and running a sump as well as Caulerpa. I keep a light bioload and water parameters with just a skimmer are great. I even went 7 months without a water change although I would not reccommend it. PH is 8.3, No Amonia, nitrates or nitrites. The cloudiness is probably due to a bacterial bloom. I'd just let it cycle and do it's thing before changing any water. It will gradually clear itself up. I'm assuming you have no livestock at the moment?

I agree with you up to the point of letting it cycle and having it cleanup on its own-----due to the fact that the sand might have been old and he is just starting then I thought it was an easy step to take now rather then later

It it had been a tank set up for a few weeks into the cycling process then your are correct--100 percent--algae blooms are natural and die off when the rock is fully cured

Aquarist007 · 03/12/2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jh05gv
Thanks for your reply. I used RO-DI water originally and was only planning on using tab water to change out the existing water in there now so I don't waste the "good" water.

So on your suggestion on replacing the sand, I will do that... this weekend. I'll drain the water during the week though so that the algae doesn't "infect" the rock. For the argonite sand, is there a brand that you recommend or would stay away from?

I also have a question on your process though. Most of what I read and from what people tell me is that I should put the rock down first to get a good solid base, then the sand. You don't see a problem with rocks shifting due to critters digging?

Also the egg crate that you mentioned. Where do you get that? LFS? This is that black/grey foam stuff right?

For the lights, I didn't even turn them on. I'll do that after I replace the sand.

Thanks much. It was very discouraging for me to see the murky water but now I have hope.

the white egg crate is sold in Home Depot--I believe as lightiing covers and shields

jh05gv · 03/12/2008, 02:40 PM

I have two books on starting a tank. Both books suggest adding in rock first, then sand, then water.

I don't have any livestock in it now. I've drained the tank since this morning and thoroughly rinsed the rock with the garden hose. I'll get to cleaning out the bottom of the tank later this week (maybe tonight) and replacing the sand that I had with some new sand from the store (which I haven't purchased yet). I will drain the sump too and start fresh with clean sand, water, and rinsed rock.

As for the egg crate, can someone describe that for me? Is it hard/soft? Thickness? Material? Color? etc.

jh05gv · 03/17/2008, 09:10 AM

Update on murky waters... I drained the tank, rinsed the rock really well with the garden hose, and bought 20 lbs of new live sand. I put the sand in, mixing the old with the new, put in the rock making sure to get a good solid footing on the bottom rocks, and refilled with RO-DI mixed water. I ended up doing this all last Wednesday night - four full days and counting.

Right now the water is crystal clear! Thanks for the advise capn_hylinur and Mike.

kevin2000 · 03/17/2008, 09:27 AM

My 02

Next time around you should note that "murky water" doesn't mean much in a newly established cycling tank without livestock .. a bit of patience and it would have cleared on its own.

03/12/2008, 08:04 AM	#1
jh05gv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Denver Posts: 6	Murky Waters I am starting up a reef tank and am new to the hobby. I bought most of my equipment used on Craig's List - tank, stand, sump, skimmer, pumps, rock, and sand. I bought new my lights and RO-DI system. To provide some background on my process, I placed my dry rock into the tank and created a reef scape with a solid base. The rock that I purchased from CL had been dry for some time, probably months. Then I added the sand. The sand I had purchased was moist but I can't say it was really wet. Then I put in my RO-DI water that I had mixed the day before and had aerated overnight. When I tested the salinity in the tank, it was a bit low (probably due to temperature differences) so I added salt directly into the tank (Kent's Sea Salt). I now have the correct salinity - 1.020 @72.2F. Initially things looked great. There was some cloudiness but I attributed that to sand being disturbed. After a day, the water got worse. It is now really murky with a drab/olive-like tint. I'd like to know what caused this? Is it the bacteria decay from the rock? Something left over from the sand? My plan is to change out the water with tap-water + salt mix to see if the problem reoccurs, then change out the tap water with RO-DI water. Does that seem ok?

03/12/2008, 08:17 AM	#2
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	*To Reef Central* my first inference would be the moist sand you bought. You are better off to buy a good quality argonite sand from the start and seed it with one cup of sand from someones established tank. I am assuming this was sold as "live sand" but who really knows where it has been and what is in it ect? suggestion only drain the tank , take the live rock out, put newly rinsed argonite down first then add your live rock (some reefers will put down egg crate between the rock and glass bottom of the tank then add the rock and finally the sand) BTW your salt water should be 1.026 at 78 degrees __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

03/12/2008, 08:20 AM	#3
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	were your lights on full also--during the cycling phase they really only need to be on a max of three hours to fully answer your questions--the green in the water is the sign of an algae bloom. algae needs phosphates and nitrates for fuel and light energy I suspect the big spike in those came from the substrate rather the the live rock in that short of time if you used tap water then you probably added a good deal of phosphates __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

03/12/2008, 10:04 AM	#4
jh05gv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Denver Posts: 6	Thanks for your reply. I used RO-DI water originally and was only planning on using tab water to change out the existing water in there now so I don't waste the "good" water. So on your suggestion on replacing the sand, I will do that... this weekend. I'll drain the water during the week though so that the algae doesn't "infect" the rock. For the argonite sand, is there a brand that you recommend or would stay away from? I also have a question on your process though. Most of what I read and from what people tell me is that I should put the rock down first to get a good solid base, then the sand. You don't see a problem with rocks shifting due to critters digging? Also the egg crate that you mentioned. Where do you get that? LFS? This is that black/grey foam stuff right? For the lights, I didn't even turn them on. I'll do that after I replace the sand. Thanks much. It was very discouraging for me to see the murky water but now I have hope.

03/12/2008, 10:59 AM	#5
Mike Murphy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Greencastle, Indiana Posts: 258	How long has the tank been set up? I ran mine 60 days beforre I put in any rock and it was live and partially cured but went another 30 before my first fish. It sounds like you have done this in a matter of days. If that is the case just be patient. That alone is the best virtue you can have in this hobby as it will assure more success & happiness and less disappointments. Do you have a basic beginers handbook on reefing? If not get one and read it more than once just to feel comfortable with what you are doing. Tank cycling and bio loading are difficult for many because of the excitement pending to get things up and running for all the neat stuff you can buy. I spent 10 years in the hobby when we did not have any idea about live rock or deep sand beds. I got back in the hobby 2 years ago with a 27 and a 55 both with fresh cured live rock and running a sump as well as Caulerpa. I keep a light bioload and water parameters with just a skimmer are great. I even went 7 months without a water change although I would not reccommend it. PH is 8.3, No Amonia, nitrates or nitrites. The cloudiness is probably due to a bacterial bloom. I'd just let it cycle and do it's thing before changing any water. It will gradually clear itself up. I'm assuming you have no livestock at the moment?

03/12/2008, 02:40 PM	#8
jh05gv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Denver Posts: 6	I have two books on starting a tank. Both books suggest adding in rock first, then sand, then water. I don't have any livestock in it now. I've drained the tank since this morning and thoroughly rinsed the rock with the garden hose. I'll get to cleaning out the bottom of the tank later this week (maybe tonight) and replacing the sand that I had with some new sand from the store (which I haven't purchased yet). I will drain the sump too and start fresh with clean sand, water, and rinsed rock. As for the egg crate, can someone describe that for me? Is it hard/soft? Thickness? Material? Color? etc.

03/17/2008, 09:10 AM	#9
jh05gv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South Denver Posts: 6	Update on murky waters... I drained the tank, rinsed the rock really well with the garden hose, and bought 20 lbs of new live sand. I put the sand in, mixing the old with the new, put in the rock making sure to get a good solid footing on the bottom rocks, and refilled with RO-DI mixed water. I ended up doing this all last Wednesday night - four full days and counting. Right now the water is crystal clear! Thanks for the advise capn_hylinur and Mike.

03/17/2008, 09:27 AM	#10
kevin2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,805	My 02 Next time around you should note that "murky water" doesn't mean much in a newly established cycling tank without livestock .. a bit of patience and it would have cleared on its own.