Is the Iwasaki 175 SE really "all that" ?

Gomer · 05/28/2008, 12:55 PM

I know, sounds silly, but this is something I was pondering on since I am about to get a MH setup.

The Iwasaki 175 SE bulb is a king of efficiency. Wonderful par that is around that of many 250 bulbs. People say "oh get that bulb! it is has soo much par and will grow things like mad"....and chase it with "you will need actinic supplementation" for color.

..but actinics have (afaik) horrible Par.

Doesn't that just defeat the whole purpose of a high par bulb? The system is what matters, not the individual components. If you are going to have to suppliment, why not just get the color MH you want and ignore the par (assuming you aren't doing dual light schedules)

glxtrix · 05/28/2008, 02:16 PM

Actinics aren't used for PAR, they are there to just make the coral colors pop (well at least with VHO's....you can get some T5's that will put out PAR). I see it like this, why would I want to get 250 bulbs, that have less PAR and more wattage than a setup with the 175's? It comes down to what you want tho. if you want a blue look, these aren't for you. If you want a bulb that grows like a 10K but isn't as yellow as a 10K, then this is an option for you.

Gomer · 05/28/2008, 02:24 PM

I don't think you are grasping the point I am trying to make.

Having to dump 180watts into VHO to make your corals pop under a high par bulb is self defeating.

glxtrix · 05/28/2008, 02:34 PM

Thats your opinion. The VHO's can give a more impressive color pop than a certain bulb color can. It's all about aesthetic feel. If you want only a bulb to add growth and blue, then go with a 400 and be happy. If you want a great growing bulb with "ok" color, less wattage and the VHO's or T5 for actinic supp then go with that and be happy. Lots of people supp with VHO or T5 anyways no matter what color bulb they go with, mainly for the dusk and dawn effect before and after the halides turn on.

Gomer · 05/28/2008, 02:39 PM

There is no opinion in high par bulb + low par sup = lower growing efficiency then high par bulb alone.

Also, I already removed the dawn/dusk discussion.

epicfish · 05/28/2008, 02:46 PM

Hey Tony.

I've found that with my Iwasaki + T5 setup, I could get a color that no other MH bulb could give me...a bit bluer than 14K, but not quite 20K.

The 20K bulbs were too blue for me, and the 14K bulbs were too white. The Iwasaki was great in "washing out" some of the darker purple colors that I got from the T5.

But yes, I see your point. IMO, without actinic supplementation, the Iwaski browns out coral, and not because of lack of light acclimation either, there's not enough blue in the bulb to bring out the color.

glxtrix · 05/28/2008, 03:38 PM

Guess its just people wanting higer PAR with lower cost. I'd agree that VHO isnt the best solution for act supp, T5 would be better so you could get PAR....but no T5 bulb will give you the look of the VHO. Its jsut simple math here now. Say I went with 2x400W 20K bulbs...thats 800W. My set up now, 3x175+2x110= 745W Ok maybe the 2x400 would be better, but I'm also not running a chiller on my tank with my current setup, the 2x400 I'd definitely have to...thats a whole other discussion about useless power consumption tho. I see what you're saying about the VHO's, guess it all comes down to personal preference really. You work for a T5 manu or something, lol.

Gomer · 05/28/2008, 03:43 PM

I totally agree on preference mattering. I just now realized how silly it is when people go for a high par bulb because it is high par, and then toss in a bunch of low par components just to get the color they want (I want a 20K look, so lets start with a 10K and add in supplemental sorta thing)

glxtrix · 05/28/2008, 03:47 PM

Yeah man i hear ya... Only reason I have VHO is because of the color they give. I run the dusk/dawn deal and that color to me is amazing! Yes not the best option if I wanted to stay with the whole "high PAR" setup. As soon as T5 comes out with a bulb that mimics the VHO and gives PAR, I'm all over it

rishma · 05/28/2008, 04:53 PM

Gomer -

I am not certain I understand what you are implying; however, if you are thinking that adding lower PAR actinics actually takes away from the total PAR at any point in the tank-----this is not true. PAR is additive, so actually it will go up a bit. Blue actinics mostly change the look of the tank but definitely do not lower the PAR.

sorry if I am misunderstanding you.

Certainly by adding actinics you are not saving any electricity, but the PAR in your tank does not go down.

Gomer · 05/28/2008, 04:56 PM

They increase the par, but lower the system par/watt (efficiency).

rishma · 05/28/2008, 05:32 PM

ah, yes. the efficiency is lower, but it looks nice and is still likely more efficient than most 250 watt bulbs stand alone.

herostar · 05/29/2008, 03:32 AM

I personally like the look of my Iwasaki. It is much better than the hamilton 10k I had before it.

RichConley · 05/29/2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by epicfish

But yes, I see your point. IMO, without actinic supplementation, the Iwaski browns out coral, and not because of lack of light acclimation either, there's not enough blue in the bulb to bring out the color.

Theres plenty of blue in the Iwasaki to have great colors. There are PLENTY of people who run it alone. There are plenty of people who run 10K alone and have great colors.

Actinic often HIDES a lot of color problems by making the coral LOOK a lot more colorful than it actually is.

uhuru · 05/29/2008, 11:49 AM

you can get a lot of actinic pop with iwasakis even without actinics, however the overall light color is going to be white

dlmkmm · 05/30/2008, 12:07 PM

I say yes, they are all that. I just replaced my pc's over my 29 gallon with the 175 Iwasaki 15k retro kit from Hellolights with the ARO electronic ballest. They have only been running for 2 days now and the light is a very bright white with a very small amount of blue, and VERY bright. I will see how it goes after it burns in but for now it looks like actinics may not be needed.

05/28/2008, 12:55 PM	#1
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	Is the Iwasaki 175 SE really "all that" ? I know, sounds silly, but this is something I was pondering on since I am about to get a MH setup. The Iwasaki 175 SE bulb is a king of efficiency. Wonderful par that is around that of many 250 bulbs. People say "oh get that bulb! it is has soo much par and will grow things like mad"....and chase it with "you will need actinic supplementation" for color. ..but actinics have (afaik) horrible Par. Doesn't that just defeat the whole purpose of a high par bulb? The system is what matters, not the individual components. If you are going to have to suppliment, why not just get the color MH you want and ignore the par (assuming you aren't doing dual light schedules)

05/28/2008, 02:24 PM	#3
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	I don't think you are grasping the point I am trying to make. Having to dump 180watts into VHO to make your corals pop under a high par bulb is self defeating. __________________ -Tony

05/28/2008, 02:39 PM	#5
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	There is no opinion in high par bulb + low par sup = lower growing efficiency then high par bulb alone. Also, I already removed the dawn/dusk discussion. __________________ -Tony

05/28/2008, 03:43 PM	#8
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	I totally agree on preference mattering. I just now realized how silly it is when people go for a high par bulb because it is high par, and then toss in a bunch of low par components just to get the color they want (I want a 20K look, so lets start with a 10K and add in supplemental sorta thing) __________________ -Tony

05/28/2008, 04:53 PM	#10
rishma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,206	Gomer - I am not certain I understand what you are implying; however, if you are thinking that adding lower PAR actinics actually takes away from the total PAR at any point in the tank-----this is not true. PAR is additive, so actually it will go up a bit. Blue actinics mostly change the look of the tank but definitely do not lower the PAR. sorry if I am misunderstanding you. Certainly by adding actinics you are not saving any electricity, but the PAR in your tank does not go down. __________________ Reefing since ‘96 Current Tank Info: Silence is golden

05/28/2008, 02:16 PM	#2
glxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 882	Actinics aren't used for PAR, they are there to just make the coral colors pop (well at least with VHO's....you can get some T5's that will put out PAR). I see it like this, why would I want to get 250 bulbs, that have less PAR and more wattage than a setup with the 175's? It comes down to what you want tho. if you want a blue look, these aren't for you. If you want a bulb that grows like a 10K but isn't as yellow as a 10K, then this is an option for you.

05/28/2008, 02:34 PM	#4
glxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 882	Thats your opinion. The VHO's can give a more impressive color pop than a certain bulb color can. It's all about aesthetic feel. If you want only a bulb to add growth and blue, then go with a 400 and be happy. If you want a great growing bulb with "ok" color, less wattage and the VHO's or T5 for actinic supp then go with that and be happy. Lots of people supp with VHO or T5 anyways no matter what color bulb they go with, mainly for the dusk and dawn effect before and after the halides turn on.

05/28/2008, 02:46 PM	#6
epicfish Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,068	Hey Tony. I've found that with my Iwasaki + T5 setup, I could get a color that no other MH bulb could give me...a bit bluer than 14K, but not quite 20K. The 20K bulbs were too blue for me, and the 14K bulbs were too white. The Iwasaki was great in "washing out" some of the darker purple colors that I got from the T5. But yes, I see your point. IMO, without actinic supplementation, the Iwaski browns out coral, and not because of lack of light acclimation either, there's not enough blue in the bulb to bring out the color.

05/28/2008, 03:38 PM	#7
glxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 882	Guess its just people wanting higer PAR with lower cost. I'd agree that VHO isnt the best solution for act supp, T5 would be better so you could get PAR....but no T5 bulb will give you the look of the VHO. Its jsut simple math here now. Say I went with 2x400W 20K bulbs...thats 800W. My set up now, 3x175+2x110= 745W Ok maybe the 2x400 would be better, but I'm also not running a chiller on my tank with my current setup, the 2x400 I'd definitely have to...thats a whole other discussion about useless power consumption tho. I see what you're saying about the VHO's, guess it all comes down to personal preference really. You work for a T5 manu or something, lol.

05/28/2008, 03:47 PM	#9
glxtrix Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 882	Yeah man i hear ya... Only reason I have VHO is because of the color they give. I run the dusk/dawn deal and that color to me is amazing! Yes not the best option if I wanted to stay with the whole "high PAR" setup. As soon as T5 comes out with a bulb that mimics the VHO and gives PAR, I'm all over it

05/28/2008, 04:56 PM	#11
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	They increase the par, but lower the system par/watt (efficiency). __________________ -Tony

05/28/2008, 05:32 PM	#12
rishma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,206	ah, yes. the efficiency is lower, but it looks nice and is still likely more efficient than most 250 watt bulbs stand alone. __________________ Reefing since ‘96 Current Tank Info: Silence is golden

05/29/2008, 03:32 AM	#13
herostar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 1,024	I personally like the look of my Iwasaki. It is much better than the hamilton 10k I had before it. __________________ Do a good turn daily. Current Tank Info: 58g Oceanic (Est. 2007)

05/29/2008, 11:49 AM	#15
uhuru Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus Posts: 2,949	you can get a lot of actinic pop with iwasakis even without actinics, however the overall light color is going to be white __________________ August 2011 TOTM

05/30/2008, 12:07 PM	#16
dlmkmm Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Homestead, Fl Posts: 61	I say yes, they are all that. I just replaced my pc's over my 29 gallon with the 175 Iwasaki 15k retro kit from Hellolights with the ARO electronic ballest. They have only been running for 2 days now and the light is a very bright white with a very small amount of blue, and VERY bright. I will see how it goes after it burns in but for now it looks like actinics may not be needed.