nitrate filter

[dareefguy]

Hello all. first of all I would like to thank you for checking out this thread.

A quick run down on my system, 180 gallon tank, 120 gallon sump, and a 30 gallon refugium.

My tank is pretty highly stocked with a mixture of sps and lps, and tangs. I have a deep sand bed in the tank about 3 inches deep, and 6 inches deep in the refugium. I must be close to 200 pounds of live rock.

I am running a reef concept 830 skimmer with a modified recurc needle wheel pump.

if anybody needs to know more about me feel free to ask.

Now my problem is my nitrates. The tank has been setup in it's new location for 10 months now and I would have guessed that my deep sand beds would have kicked back into play but they haven't and I cannot get my nitrates down.

I am thinking about buying a nitrate filter. has anybody tried the aqupure? here is a link. http://www.aquaripure.com/index.htm

thanks a bunch for your time and anything anybody could suggest.

[neelix]

I have seen several for sale here, cant vouch for there effectiveness, I can tell you I run a Korallin and it works excellent. 0 Nitrates heavy bio-load and yes I have deep sand bed in the tank, fuge and remote DSB nothing else worked.

My specs 120 gal, 20 gal fuge, 70 gal sump, Tunze 9440.

[dareefguy]

do you have a link to the korallin that you run?

[useskaforevil]

IMO waste of money. i had nitrates of over 180ppm and i got them down to under 20ppm in less than 2 months. all i've been doing is adding sugar every other day. about 1/2 teaspoon for 100 gallon system. some people have other dosing suggestions so don't take my method as law. actually, i haven't added sugar in awhile but i just tested my nitrates 2 days ago an they're still about 10-20. they might go down if i kept adding sugar but all of my coral growth has taken off and i'm afraid to mess with success.

[dareefguy]

sugar..... The same thing we put in our coffee? no wonder we like it so much.

Can you explane the logic?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Can you post a picture of the tank?

I'm guessing too much rockwork and not enough flow might have something to do with it.

Also, a 3" sandbed in the main tank sounds like just enough to trap crap, but not enough to get the benefits of a DSB. IMO sandbeds should be 1" or less, or 6" or greater.

[dareefguy]

I thought about that too. it is a high flow tank as it is and I also added another power head behind the rock work to make sure.

I can't add a picture at this time (computer problelms) but I also have a tiger tail cuke, two conch, and a sand dollar cleaning the sand bed.

[dareefguy]

hopfully this works

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[dareefguy]

[dareefguy]

there we go. I got it figured out. this one may show a little more of full tank.

[plyle02]

Are you using RO/DI water for top off and W/C's? I am sure you are, but if not testing the TDS on your RO/DI, perhaps the water is hitting the tank with nitrates.... If your are not using RO/DI, then do, and get to the source of the nitrates. IMO, vodka, sugar, vinegar and other c sources will not get to the root of the problem, and should be used by very experienced reefers. I would not use these methods unless your system is running good levels to begin with. Many sps gurus use it in conjunction with heavy coral feeding foods such as Amino Acids. Personally, I think you are sort of in between with your sandbed in the main tank. IME, I would do either a 1-1.5"ssb with routine vacuming/ stirring, or a sandbed of at least 5" for the DSB benefits. The sandbed in the fuge sounds good, but is probably not large enough to keep up with the demands in the main tank. It just sounds like leftovers are ending up in your sandbed, which IMO sounds exhausted, hence the leaching of nitrates, and probably phosphates too. This is the main reason why I decided to go bb. Not try to start that debate, but using the bb method with a 3-5 times overated skimmer, and for me employing a RDSB fuge with mangroves and chaeto is what works best for me. I have to overfeed my fish, dose aminos, and other coral feeding foods to even register nitrates(using Salifert). It just sounds like you already have the right equipment, just a few minor tweeks, and you can save some money, and enjoy the sugar in your coffee, and of course the vodka! Good luck...............

[dareefguy]

I am using RO/DI water, and my tds readings are still only at .003 ppm. My phosphates are 0. I do not know why my phosphates stay so low, but I can't keep plants other then mangove pods, alive in the refugium to use up nitrates.

[Mykel Obvious]

I agree with Lobster Of Justice and plyle02... you most likely need another 2" or 3" of sand in the display and maybe a restock on sand bed critters... I'd look at www.ipsf.com or http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/prod_detrit.html
for some more detrivores... you can take a cup of your sand and place it in a shallow dish and see if you still have enough life in the bed (use a white dish and then a dark dish to see all the different types of life as some are light and some are dark)

Not sure, but the sand dollar may be munching on your sand bed critters as well (anyone know just what they eat??)... I know that sand sifting fish and sand sifting stars are a no-no for DSBs because they eat up all the life that you need to help break the food particles down and keep the water moving into and out of the sand bed...

HTH,

[dareefguy]

I am thinking about syphoning a bunch of sand out of my tank and putting it in an extra compartment in the sump to make another deep sand bed and minamizing the sand in the tank. If I do this I am sure I can get another deep sand bed 18 x 24, probably 6 to 8 inches deep.

[useskaforevil]

well, dosing sugar may not get to the root of the problem, but if it works, is safe, is cheap, and is easy, then what is the problem? i like to overfeed somewhat, and my cheato and sugar dosing take care of the downside of that.


anyway, i could be wrong but it was explained to me that idosing sugar allows bacteria numbers to increase taking in alot of nitrate and then your skimmer ends up picking out the bacteria.

[xJake]

From the pics you posted your tank looks completely fine. Unless you're having problems with coral reactions (bleaching, browning) or nuisance algae then I see no reason to lower your nitrates. If you are set on reducing your nitrates here is my suggestion:

I have heard of people having success with sugar/vodka dosing as well as using sulfur denitrators. Here are a few links you may find useful:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1225324
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1288082
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=288714

here's what happens when you overdose your tank with sugar/vodka:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1291734

Sugar/vodka dosing is probably the easiest to start with but the sulfur denitrator is probably the more consistent solution. Whatever you decide to do start out slow and watch how your animals react and respond accordingly. The worst thing you can do in this hobby is rush into dosing additives or cranking up reactors without testing and adjusting. Good luck and happy reefing!

[Peter Eichler]

Hard to tell for sure but it doesn't look like you have much flow in your tank. Your rock is also very tightly packed and doesn't look like it would allow much flow back behind the rockwork even if you do have a lot of flow. Hard to say for sure but opening things up a bit and upping the flow may tilt the balance if your favor.

[plyle02]

good point peter, just the point I was trying to make earlier about keeping decay/ detritus in suspension.... I also think the sandbed is kind a mook point in this case, speaking of the display... No real benfit, IMO... I really love the idea of RDSB's, or RDSB fuges.... Longterm, seem to be the way to go, and if signs elude to the sandbed being exhausted, simply take it offline, then replace as needed. Again, adding carbon sources with amino dosing is really a homeade version of zeo-vit, which although is known for phenomenal colors, if not employed properly, can have costly results.... C- source dosing is really designed for those who know how to keep nutrient import and export right on the fringe, if not done properly can lead to a bloom which is evident by milky white coloration of water. Good luck, and happy reefing!

[dareefguy]

exahsted sand bed? I do beleave and correct me if i am wrong but the life in a sand bed can be rebuilt why would you need to change the sand? I am not sure what I would be looking for if i looked at the sand closely but I do know that I have tons of pods that I can see with a flashlight when the lights go out. and if I move a bit of sand it is full of tube worm things.

As for the circulation my main pump is a dolphin 7500, split up to run my refugium, skimmer, calcium reactor, and two main lines going back to the tank. In the tank I have a 1400 gph pump running in a closed loop through a squid wavmaker, two 1100 seio's on a hi, low timer, two more 1100 seio's running full out, and an 800 seio behind the rock work.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally posted by Peter Eichler
Hard to tell for sure but it doesn't look like you have much flow in your tank. Your rock is also very tightly packed and doesn't look like it would allow much flow back behind the rockwork even if you do have a lot of flow. Hard to say for sure but opening things up a bit and upping the flow may tilt the balance if your favor.

Agreed.