20g Frogfish Set up(pics)

[SWaquariast]

I am setting up a 20g Frogfish FOWLR or possibly with leathers.

This is just the empty 20g on its stand.

My Penguin BIO-Wheel 200.

My Maxi Jet 400 with 100w HOB heater.

This is 20lbs Ocean Direct live sand.

The sand in the bottom of my 20g.

The aquarium 1/4 way filled.

The aquarium 1/2 way filled.

Aquarium completly filled.

The aquarium completly filled and organized.

Most of my supplies are for my 20g reef aquarium. I still need a protein skimmer(ordering skimmer tommarow) and live/base rock

This is my 20g reef, this pic is about a month old since then my mixima clam died and I got a lot bigger and better protein skimmer.

I also have a 10 gallon acllimated molly aquarium.(Frogfish food)

[SeaMac2]

Cool...post more pics when you can.

Any chance you could put the stick on thermometer on the side of the tank?

[Bmgrocks]

I'd remove that BioWheel, it will simply cause Nitrates to build in your aquarium, and since your poss. planning a reef, i'd advise against it.
Bio Wheels work great in freshwater where they convert ammonia and nitrIte into nitrates by providing oxygen to nitrifying bacteria, but in a sw reef, its not beneficial,

Keep the filter, and remove the biowheel, use the filter to poss run chemical media like Chemipure or Purigen.

Good Luck

[SWaquariast]

I am using cheatomorpha algea to reduce nitrates same thing with the live sand and live rock I'm adding, it reduces nitrates. I might add a couple shaving brush plants.

[Bmgrocks]

That still doesn't take away from the fact that you will achieve better overall tank health and lower nitrates if you remove the biowheel

why would you knowingly provide excess nitrates?
even if you plan on using Macroalgae and biological filtration?

[jejton]

biowheeel wont be a problem if the filter media is cleaned and/or changed regularly.

[Aiwass]

It's a pretty common misconception in the hobby that an excess of nitrifying bacteria (or filter media conducive to its growth) with magically "create" nitrates. This just isn't true. You could run a wet/dry the size of a school bus and the production of nitrate (population of nitrifying bacteria) will ultimately be limited by the availability of nutrients.

[Bmgrocks]

sorry about that, just looking for a better understanding

how exactly does the biowheel work then?
I had always thought that the biowheel itself provides surface area for nitrifying bacteria, the fact that it rotates in and out of the water increases oxygen, oxygen that is needed to further process the ammonia and nitrites into nitrates.

i was left with the idea that once its turned into NitrAtes that it would just remain on the biowheel, never leaving the system.

however I guess I'm starting to realize that if your tank is cycled and never had a chance to process ammonia and nitrite, i guess you would be left with no NitrAtes whatsoever?

Can someone clear that up for me? I really don't like giving falsified information. Sorry for any confusion

[bsagecko]

bio-wheels nor bio-balls themselves are nitrate factories.......

nitrates are the products of chemical reactions with bacteria.....

when proper mechanical filteration is not imployed the bio-wheel/bio-balls become filled with detrius and basically fish poop.....this in turn becomes a so-called "nitrate factory"

however with the proper mechanical filteration ( 100-200 micron filter sock) or a filter pad......then the bio-wheel/balls are fine.....and do there job effectively.........it is just the fact that ppl dont use mechanical filteration as much as they use to when bio-balls or bio-wheels where invented..............

i know several aquarist that have been in the hobby for 5+ years without any nitrate problems esp when running a fuge........

[widmer]

I'm going to take a stab at clarifying and explaining the biowheel/bioball controversy:

The happy aquarist desires a few things:
0. To remove as much organic debris as possible before it "turns in to" ammonia.
1. To convert all ammonia to nitrites.
2. To convert all nitrites to nitrates.
3. To remove all nitrates.

So if something is going to "produce" a lot of nitrates, great; then ammonia and nitrites have been "removed". There is absolutely nothing wrong with something being a "nitrate factory". The reason then that biowheels and bioballs get a bad rap is because they don't foster the growth of the anaerobic nitrate-processing bacteria. If the aquarist employs either of these devices, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them because they are wonderful for reducing amonia and nitrites - It is important though that in addition to these devices, there is some other attempt to provide anaerobic conditions somewhere in the system and/or a macroalgae setup so that nitrates can be reduced.

Specifically to the 20g Frogfish Setup: There's nothing wrong in my opinion for you to leave the biowheel in. However, due to the fact that you have plenty of sand in there, I think in the long run it wouldn't make any difference if you leave it in or take it out. If you take it out, the anaerobic bacteria will simply build up more in the live rock and top layer of the live sand. Since you're keeping a frogfish which will produce quite a bit of organic waste, I think your top concern should simply be how to efficiently remove the organic waste before it breaks down.

[bsagecko]

i just noticed that you said you have a mollie tank.....I once again think this is a bad idea and not nutrientially in the best intereste of your fish.....i would suggest a SW feeder shrimp or damsels......

the frogfish will put a heavy load on the bio-system in your tank; however i think with enough liverock and a refuge on top of the small HOB filter you should be ok......i dont know if you will have 0 nitrates but i definately think you could get 5ppm without a skimmer........

[DrBegalke]

It is true that biowheel or no biowheel the amount of nitrate produced will be the same as it largely a function of how much food enters the tank (possible top off water...)

What happens once the nitrate is made is what is different, at least in theory.

With the biowheel/bioballs/etc the nitrate gets diluted into the entire water column, and then has diffuse into to the live rock/sand bed for further reduction.

If you don't use such media, the reduction (bacteria populations) shifts to the surface of live rock or sand, then the local concentration of nitrate is higher there than in the first case above, and it is more likely to diffuse into the rock and sand to find the anaerobic bacteria to be converted to N2.

Now, if you are using macroalgae as the primary method of removing nitrate, either of the above methods will be fine as the nitrate need to entire the water column to make it to the algae....

Also, a FO or FOWLR with leathers will not be all that sensitive to nitrate levels as compared to say an SPS reef.

So I think using the biowheel in this situation is fine.

[SWaquariast]

doesn't carbon reduce nitrates a lot

[Slakker]

Not really.

[kar93]

IME carbon only really aids in cloudy water and helps to remove elements such as metals rather than nitrates. Obviosly it will help with other things but they are all I have used carbon for before. I think you should be fine with the biowheel as you will be using Chaeto too.

[kar93]

Another thing, As mentioned I wouldn't recommend Mollies either. Altough they can be acclimated to SW they are more of a FW fish and using SW feeder shrimp will be alot easier for you and healthier for the frog.

[DrBegalke]

Carbon, if changed regularly, can remove some organics which would have added to the nitrogen load in the tank. If you wait too long, those organics will just be broken down and go thru the same nitrogen cycle to create more nitrate.

[Nano Chris]

I would fix that power head better, use the clip that came with it, those suction cups tend to come un-done and not stick anymore, don't want it to come loose and spray water everywhere.

[rjsilvers]

Originally posted by Criminal#58369
I would fix that power head better, use the clip that came with it, those suction cups tend to come un-done and not stick anymore, don't want it to come loose and spray water everywhere.

Good call. I remember reading a thread where a powerhead did just that, sprayed all over the lights and the tank caught on fire....

[SWaquariast]

I got it for free by some freinds and I asked for attachments and they didn't have any. I had an extra things of suction cups.

[fuschia_red]

If those are the only two fish you're going to have in that tank, then...

Do this: Get rid of your biowheel and most importantly get rid of that cheezy protein skimmers that works only for nanos but are designed for 30 gallons. I don't know how you got that thing to work efficiently or at all; as I think they are junk.

Cure yourself another 5 lbs of live rock and add that to your tank and you will have improved your filtration w/o worrying about nitrates. That's all you need. Biowheels are nitrate factories and small bioloads created by two little clownfish is not going to be a strain as long as you do regular water changes.

[SWaquariast]

If you are talking about that nano skimmer in my reef tank, I up graded toa skimmer that does 100g.

[fuschia_red]

Originally posted by SWaquariast
If you are talking about that nano skimmer in my reef tank, I up graded toa skimmer that does 100g.

Then that pictures must be old. B/c I have one of those, and I've had to fine-tune that piece of crap everytime I empty it. It never works right and to this day, I'm still not sure if it ever skimmed anything since the collection cup is so tiny.

The LFS I bought mine from are fraudulent and I rarely go there anymore and most of the time when I do, I only go there to look.

But seriously, < or = 20 gallons is small. Once you add the substrate, rock, coral and fish...I'd say you're left with approximately 15 gallons of actual water volume. By doing a 1.5 or even 2 gallon water change once a week (which is like 2 to 3 cup fulls); you'll be doing your tank much better maintenance than running a most likely "overdesigned" skimmer and a nitrate factory biowheel. Trust me...it works. It may also be a lot easier to control the temperature of the tank w/ less gagetry; not to mention--aestethically, it's more pleasing.

I don't know why LFS's encourage the use of biowheels and bioballs for saltwater setups; seems wrong to me.

[bsagecko]

ok once again there is nothing wrong with bioballs or biowheels as long as they are used effectively...........

bioball systems have been the backbone of the SW industry for 20+ years........most lfs still use them on there on systems.....

it is the fact that most ppl dont use proper mechanical filteration before letting the water hit the bioballs...........uh why does everyone think that bioballs are the worst thing ever....

Anyways i do recommend the water changes....but i still think it is a good idea to have a fuge.......you can get rid of the HOB filter if you want.......you dont want to add to much liverock......as they can be obstacles for your fish that the shrimp will hid behind.......

what i would do......is have like 3-4 good size pieces in your DT and then have the fuge be a 20L and load it up with liverock and chaeto...........just a thought post some more pics......when you get the fish

[ClownReef®]

..Leathers release toxins.. and in such a small tank it sounds like a HUGE problem..