just dodged a bullet. Want to know how?

Sk8r · 06/15/2008, 09:20 AM

I have a 54g reef. I also have a 30g sump with a 20g fuge as part of that 30g.

Last year I moved: I had a megadisaster during the move with a stalled build and buckets full of live rock that cooked (lost its non-micro fauna, but not its bacteria) and critters being boarded at the lfs that had to be moved into a nearly raw 54g tank...the store was using its sales space to accommodate my critters and I couldn't go on imposing on them.

Yesterday I just had a pump disaster which required me to empty the sump fuge (to lift it so I could unscrew the Iwaki exterior pump for service.) I had to take down the sump sandbed for this, total de-build, and then, no choice, had to let the pump run: we had already been 9 hours without air (what a day!)

My corals survived both incidents and so did my fish. Why?

Outside of reasonably meticulous testing, which I did in both incidents, I think I can attribute my survival to the fuge in the first instance. In the first (move) incident, I'd set up a sump with a huge wad of cheato, abundant live rock and deep sand in 20g of refugium area. When the corals moved in, never mind it was to a tank that had only cycled for 5 days (with brand new dry sand)---there was that live rock overload and that huge cheato ball. Cheato is very efficient at conditioning water. And so is live rock. I have a potent skimmer (a 120g skimmer for a 54g tank) and it was clean, with that new sand, you can say that. But nobody was more surprised than I was that everything lived.

Then in the bad-hose incident, this week, I had to completely overturn a year old sandbed, which is enough to kill a tank. I pumped all the sump water into a 30 gal trash can (Rubbermaid Brute) and pumped it back in: it looked like the worst muddy creek water you've ever seen and was full of crud from deep in that sandbed. BUT I have two sandbeds...the fuge, which was cleaned out and re-set-up, could lean on its live rock, the cheato ball (about the size of a basketball) the still-extant main sandbed and live rock...which hadn't been touched. The amount of crud that got lofted into the water as the repaired pump blew out the lines and the sump got into action---you could hardly see the corals. But everything has lived and is opened-out and thriving.

This is a long post, but I've learned something from this (after 40 years in the hobby). TWO sandbeds and a fuge are major stability for a system. When you're first starting out, you just hope to stay alive, and you agonize over mini-crashes and water stability problems---and I would heartily, heartily recommend setting up from the start as I did after the move, with a good skimmer, as big a fuge (consider my proportion of fuge to tank size) as you can swing, and TWO sandbeds. If anything happens to one tank, the other tank carries it. That healthy cheato ball I am convinced is a major asset...it reoxygenates and absorbs all sorts of stuff your skimmer isn't qualified to remove, including hair algae phosphates, and all sorts of chemical crud. (YOur skimmer is good on biocrud, (proteins) but not much else.)

So I hope this info (after all this reading) is of some use. You can see by my sig I keep a light fish load, (hence the survival of the tank after 9 hours of no pump running). The rest are corals, which don't add bioload: they act as filters on their own.

Sk8r · 06/15/2008, 09:31 AM

And don't anybody who's totally new think you can skip cycling altogether: what I did have was that cheato ball (alive and functioning from the get-go) and two tanks well-stocked with old live rock. The sand was raw, from Caribsea.

An additional note. In this build, I used superfine sand and I will never use it again: it gets through the teeth of the downflow box and into the hoses. It is the biggest, nastiest mess I have ever had to deal with. And I just spent 9 hours cleaning out my between-floors (basement sump) hoses. Go with medium-grade. It isn't as pretty-white, but it sure is easier to live with.

otrlynn · 06/15/2008, 12:08 PM

Sk8r, since you referred to your light bio-load, that made me look at your current tank. Have you had any conflict bettween the highfin redstrip gobies and the firefish? They seem like very similar fish.

Sk8r · 06/15/2008, 12:33 PM

Not a bit: the firefish hated other firefish. But no conflict in my tank at all.

06/15/2008, 09:20 AM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	just dodged a bullet. Want to know how? I have a 54g reef. I also have a 30g sump with a 20g fuge as part of that 30g. Last year I moved: I had a megadisaster during the move with a stalled build and buckets full of live rock that cooked (lost its non-micro fauna, but not its bacteria) and critters being boarded at the lfs that had to be moved into a nearly raw 54g tank...the store was using its sales space to accommodate my critters and I couldn't go on imposing on them. Yesterday I just had a pump disaster which required me to empty the sump fuge (to lift it so I could unscrew the Iwaki exterior pump for service.) I had to take down the sump sandbed for this, total de-build, and then, no choice, had to let the pump run: we had already been 9 hours without air (what a day!) My corals survived both incidents and so did my fish. Why? Outside of reasonably meticulous testing, which I did in both incidents, I think I can attribute my survival to the fuge in the first instance. In the first (move) incident, I'd set up a sump with a huge wad of cheato, abundant live rock and deep sand in 20g of refugium area. When the corals moved in, never mind it was to a tank that had only cycled for 5 days (with brand new dry sand)---there was that live rock overload and that huge cheato ball. Cheato is very efficient at conditioning water. And so is live rock. I have a potent skimmer (a 120g skimmer for a 54g tank) and it was clean, with that new sand, you can say that. But nobody was more surprised than I was that everything lived. Then in the bad-hose incident, this week, I had to completely overturn a year old sandbed, which is enough to kill a tank. I pumped all the sump water into a 30 gal trash can (Rubbermaid Brute) and pumped it back in: it looked like the worst muddy creek water you've ever seen and was full of crud from deep in that sandbed. BUT I have two sandbeds...the fuge, which was cleaned out and re-set-up, could lean on its live rock, the cheato ball (about the size of a basketball) the still-extant main sandbed and live rock...which hadn't been touched. The amount of crud that got lofted into the water as the repaired pump blew out the lines and the sump got into action---you could hardly see the corals. But everything has lived and is opened-out and thriving. This is a long post, but I've learned something from this (after 40 years in the hobby). TWO sandbeds and a fuge are major stability for a system. When you're first starting out, you just hope to stay alive, and you agonize over mini-crashes and water stability problems---and I would heartily, heartily recommend setting up from the start as I did after the move, with a good skimmer, as big a fuge (consider my proportion of fuge to tank size) as you can swing, and TWO sandbeds. If anything happens to one tank, the other tank carries it. That healthy cheato ball I am convinced is a major asset...it reoxygenates and absorbs all sorts of stuff your skimmer isn't qualified to remove, including hair algae phosphates, and all sorts of chemical crud. (YOur skimmer is good on biocrud, (proteins) but not much else.) So I hope this info (after all this reading) is of some use. You can see by my sig I keep a light fish load, (hence the survival of the tank after 9 hours of no pump running). The rest are corals, which don't add bioload: they act as filters on their own. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/15/2008, 09:31 AM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	And don't anybody who's totally new think you can skip cycling altogether: what I did have was that cheato ball (alive and functioning from the get-go) and two tanks well-stocked with old live rock. The sand was raw, from Caribsea. An additional note. In this build, I used superfine sand and I will never use it again: it gets through the teeth of the downflow box and into the hoses. It is the biggest, nastiest mess I have ever had to deal with. And I just spent 9 hours cleaning out my between-floors (basement sump) hoses. Go with medium-grade. It isn't as pretty-white, but it sure is easier to live with. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/15/2008, 12:08 PM	#3
otrlynn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chester County PA Posts: 1,508	Sk8r, since you referred to your light bio-load, that made me look at your current tank. Have you had any conflict bettween the highfin redstrip gobies and the firefish? They seem like very similar fish. __________________ Lynn 1 horse, 1 dog, 2 cats, small pond with a few koi. The fish tank is gone.

06/15/2008, 12:33 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Not a bit: the firefish hated other firefish. But no conflict in my tank at all. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.