Upgrading to 120 Gallon tank...

pocurran · 07/14/2008, 07:13 PM

Hello all...I am fairly new, since February, and have learned a lot since I got the fever. I have a 75 gallon mixed reef tank with about 80 pounds of live rock, two Koralia 2 pumps, and Sea Clone, ( I know, now) skimmer. I was running compact florescents and have just upgraded to T5, HO lights. Early on, I was told that I had everything I needed to keep the reef alive and thriving.

I have as livestock, a Yellow Tang, Maroon Clown, 4 Blue-Green Chromis, Purple Firefish, 6 Blue Spot sandsifting Goby, male and female anthias, 1 Cleaner Shrimp and a few snails and red legged hermits.

The rest are, Green Open Brain, Rose BTA, Small Sebae, various Zooanthid Frags, Xenia Frag, Favia Frag, Candy Coral Frag, and a few mushroom Frags.

Some of these I had purchased and some I have inherited from a neighbor that had to move. This is why I am upgrading to the 120.

My plan for the 120 is: The standard? 120 tank, 48" X 24" x 24" with stand. It is "reef Ready" and I will be installing a DIY sump/refugium that I will be making out of a 30 gallon long tank and plexiglass using silicone as the sealant.

I will be using the same T5 lighting, 2 Blue Actinic, 3 White and one Purple, or at least this is what I received when getting the light. I will be purchasing an Aquamedic Turboflotor 1000 and OR 2700 Pump for the sump, and a return pump. I will be upgrading my heater to a higher grade as well.

I plan on going to 2 Koralia 4 units for the bigger tank, but I thought I read somewhere that with the sump and refugium, the pump heads may not be necessary. I can't find that article any more, so I'm not sure if I read it correctly or not.

I will be adding more live rock and live sand into the new tank.

I think I have hit all the bases for the background. The questions I am having are:

Should the 30G tank be big enough for the sump/fuge? Will the T1000 Skimmer be adequate for the tank or should the footprint be smaller for this sump? Are the power heads necessary when using a sump? and finally, is there anything listed that won't work, something I am forgetting or something I should change?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Patrick

firemancorbin · 07/14/2008, 07:15 PM

I have a 150 and we run a 30 gallon sump/fug so i would say you would be fine!!!

jdiddy8384 · 07/14/2008, 07:28 PM

I think you should be ok. The return from a sump is just like another powerhead in ur tank, so u can take a power head out or move ur flow around with all of ur powerheads. Cant help with the skimmer footprint question.

pocurran · 07/14/2008, 07:36 PM

Thanks...Every little bit of info is helping. I plan to get the new tank in the next week or so and want to make sure I am getting quality items and making right decisions...only want to do this one time instead of three like I do with other things.

Thanks again...

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 09:00 AM

I'm putting in an order today for the Aqua Medic 1000 and OR 2700. Does anyone have any experience with these or know of any reason to use something different?

Thanks again,
Patrick

Playa-1 · 07/15/2008, 09:08 AM

I think you should research your skimmer options more before you make a purchase.

The Koralia #4's should serve you well in that tank.
You will need circulation in the tank. You get your circulation from a combination of sources. You will get some of it from the return pump, then the rest will likely come from powerheads or a closed loop circulation system.

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 09:14 AM

I am and have been...that is one of the reasons I have asked this question. Some of the research I have done says that the Turboflotor is good. Some of the other things I was looking at was an Euro reef or Aqua C. Price is a concern but not a deciding factor as to which one I will bet getting. If the T1000 is not suitable, I would go with something else. If it is, and it seems like it should be, that is what I will be going with. I am just wondering what other's experiences are, if any, with the T1000. Anything beats the Sea Clone I have.

Playa-1 · 07/15/2008, 09:44 AM

The t1000 is undersized for the system your building so that one is out. I would suggest that you rethink your skimmer plan. My advice would be:
Euro-Reef rS135
ASM G-2
Octopus w150
RK2 has good reviews but might be a lil undersized for you.
You will need to verify that any skimmer you get will fit the space that you have allotted for it.

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll not be going with the T1000

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 10:38 AM

Just saw something that caught my eye. If the T1000 is rated to 250 gallons and I am running a 120 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump, why is it undersized?

Aquarist007 · 07/15/2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pocurran
Just saw something that caught my eye. If the T1000 is rated to 250 gallons and I am running a 120 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump, why is it undersized?

"one" rule of thumb--is to get a skimmer rated at double your water column. If you add a refugium in the future you will be increasing your water column even more

of course you can always match the flow in your sump to the skimmer you have and get max effeciency out of it.
IMO the real effeciency of a skimmer is how much skimmate you get out of your particular system in a 24 hour period

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 02:12 PM

I guess I understand that...seems like there are a lot of ideas about what will work and what won't...

Aquarist007 · 07/15/2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pocurran
I guess I understand that...seems like there are a lot of ideas about what will work and what won't...

right and everyones system is a different ecosystem with its own unique set of variables.
That is why it is very important to read alot of threads and points of view rather then opting to the first idea that sounds good here and expecting it to operate the same way on your system.

As far as a skimmer goes I would deal from a reputable supplier who is willing to exchange or refund if the skimmer doesn't perform on your system like it should

pocurran · 07/15/2008, 09:14 PM

Thanks Capn...I've been thinking about the same thing...after reading a little more in a few places, it looks like I'll be going with an ASM model or the SWC model...one ordering online and the other from a LFS...Thanks for the words of wisdom...

Take care,

whitleyjb · 07/15/2008, 09:39 PM

Lighting seems to be fine as you are not heavy SPS.

30gal sump should work.

I think you should keep the 2 K4's as the return will give you some flow, but it is not as adjustable as using powerheads. It is not just the amount of flow, but the direction that is important.

I use an ASM G3 skimmer on my 90 and would recommend it. You may be able to pickup a good used skimmer in RC as reefers are always upgrading!

pocurran · 07/16/2008, 07:34 AM

Thanks Whitleyjb...I was up untill about 2:30 this morning doing more research and came to the same conclusions about the powerheads. I've read countless questions/answers about different skimmers and think I've narrowed it down to four. Unless I hear bad things about one or the other, it may come down to price and footprint size. Still looking at the T1000, ASM G-2(3), SWC MSX 160 and the Aqua C 180.

Thanks again,

Patrick

whitleyjb · 07/16/2008, 07:44 AM

Footprint is important!

Also check height. You want to be able to take the skimmer out to clean it every once in a while. I like my ASM, but I have to completely drain the sump, disconnect the piping and remove the sump to get my skimmer out!

The Tunze 9010 might also be a good choice! I am thinking about switching over to make maintenance easier and to get more room in the sump.

2frosty4u · 07/16/2008, 07:48 AM

If you're getting the 120g new, Why not get it drilled for a closed loop setup instead of going with powerheads.

pocurran · 07/16/2008, 07:51 AM

Closed Loop systemn is a new term to me...I might have to look into it. The tank I am looking at is a new one and has two overflows with holes already drilled. Would the closed loop setup be able to utilize these, or will it still need to be drilled?

Amoore311 · 07/16/2008, 08:18 AM

MSX160 is an awesome skimmer. You will be very pleased with it should you choose to go that route.

Also, you want 3x-5x system volume flowing through your sump. You're going to want a lot more than that in total turnover (including powerheads, closed loop, we).

I've got a mag 7 return on my 90 Gallon tank, 2 1600 GPH Modded Maxijets, and 1 Koralia #3 and my flow is enough to keep everything happy.

pocurran · 07/16/2008, 08:37 AM

Cool...The MSX was what the LFS carries and it seems like it has a good rep from what I've read, but it was hard to find a lot of info on it. I am assuming that the company hasn't been around as long as some of the others..

Fusch13 · 07/16/2008, 08:51 AM

Im planning a 120 gallon build also....i inherited a ASM g4x....and hoping ill be able to squeeze it under the tank, if not ill be building a cabinet to fit my sump and asm..

I plan to also in future put a shallow, 36x36x8 coral tank/ refugium for my frags.... next to show tank....

Im in beginning stages like you.

I also plan to do a closed loop system, with 4 1" returns....reeflo dart running the cl, and a om 4-way.....

Fizz71 · 07/16/2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pocurran
Closed Loop systemn is a new term to me...I might have to look into it. The tank I am looking at is a new one and has two overflows with holes already drilled. Would the closed loop setup be able to utilize these, or will it still need to be drilled?

Closed loops need to be separate from your overflows since most overflows won't be able to keep up with the flow. Most closed loops are drilled holes for a drain and either a drilled return or over the lip of the tank. I have done a closed loop with zero drilling although it means more PVC seen in your tank.

But IMO closed loops are better than powerheads..more control, more powerfull (usually) and if the pump has fans you have less heat in your tank and most importantly....less crap in your tank (crap being equipment).

I will say this though...it takes some PVC skills to setup a good closed loop that still allows for cleaning or pump replacement. You need ball valves and unions in place so you don't drain you freakin' tank!

pocurran · 07/16/2008, 09:22 AM

Was looking online about the closed loop system and it does seem to be better and nicer all the way around, but I think it's something I'll have to wait on and do more research on at this time. I was talking to my wife last night and she agrees that, sometime in the future, we'll go with a larger tank, 180+, and I'll try to have something ready to go then for the closed loop system.

Thanks for the info and ideas.

pocurran · 07/16/2008, 09:37 AM

Fusch13...good luck on the build. Hope it all works out well for you...I'm not sure about my fuge yet...The guy at the LFS said I sould only have either live rock, OR live sand, OR algae, but didn't explain why. Most places I have read about them have at least two if not all trhee...

07/14/2008, 07:13 PM	#1
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Upgrading to 120 Gallon tank... Hello all...I am fairly new, since February, and have learned a lot since I got the fever. I have a 75 gallon mixed reef tank with about 80 pounds of live rock, two Koralia 2 pumps, and Sea Clone, ( I know, now) skimmer. I was running compact florescents and have just upgraded to T5, HO lights. Early on, I was told that I had everything I needed to keep the reef alive and thriving. I have as livestock, a Yellow Tang, Maroon Clown, 4 Blue-Green Chromis, Purple Firefish, 6 Blue Spot sandsifting Goby, male and female anthias, 1 Cleaner Shrimp and a few snails and red legged hermits. The rest are, Green Open Brain, Rose BTA, Small Sebae, various Zooanthid Frags, Xenia Frag, Favia Frag, Candy Coral Frag, and a few mushroom Frags. Some of these I had purchased and some I have inherited from a neighbor that had to move. This is why I am upgrading to the 120. My plan for the 120 is: The standard? 120 tank, 48" X 24" x 24" with stand. It is "reef Ready" and I will be installing a DIY sump/refugium that I will be making out of a 30 gallon long tank and plexiglass using silicone as the sealant. I will be using the same T5 lighting, 2 Blue Actinic, 3 White and one Purple, or at least this is what I received when getting the light. I will be purchasing an Aquamedic Turboflotor 1000 and OR 2700 Pump for the sump, and a return pump. I will be upgrading my heater to a higher grade as well. I plan on going to 2 Koralia 4 units for the bigger tank, but I thought I read somewhere that with the sump and refugium, the pump heads may not be necessary. I can't find that article any more, so I'm not sure if I read it correctly or not. I will be adding more live rock and live sand into the new tank. I think I have hit all the bases for the background. The questions I am having are: Should the 30G tank be big enough for the sump/fuge? Will the T1000 Skimmer be adequate for the tank or should the footprint be smaller for this sump? Are the power heads necessary when using a sump? and finally, is there anything listed that won't work, something I am forgetting or something I should change? Thanks in advance for all the help. Patrick

07/14/2008, 07:15 PM	#2
firemancorbin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mustang, Oklahoma Posts: 121	I have a 150 and we run a 30 gallon sump/fug so i would say you would be fine!!! __________________ Who needs friends when you have anemones? BUDDY. Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon Reef Ready w/ Porcipine Puffer.30gallon Sump with Refugium.

07/15/2008, 09:08 AM	#6
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I think you should research your skimmer options more before you make a purchase. The Koralia #4's should serve you well in that tank. You will need circulation in the tank. You get your circulation from a combination of sources. You will get some of it from the return pump, then the rest will likely come from powerheads or a closed loop circulation system. Last edited by Playa-1; 07/15/2008 at 09:14 AM.

07/16/2008, 07:48 AM	#18
2frosty4u Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 745	If you're getting the 120g new, Why not get it drilled for a closed loop setup instead of going with powerheads. __________________ A small fish in a big aquarium

07/16/2008, 08:18 AM	#20
Amoore311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 2,521	MSX160 is an awesome skimmer. You will be very pleased with it should you choose to go that route. Also, you want 3x-5x system volume flowing through your sump. You're going to want a lot more than that in total turnover (including powerheads, closed loop, we). I've got a mag 7 return on my 90 Gallon tank, 2 1600 GPH Modded Maxijets, and 1 Koralia #3 and my flow is enough to keep everything happy. __________________ 30 Gallon FOWLR 2004-2006 90 Gallon LPS Reef 2006-2008 180 Gallon SPS Reef 2008-20012 100 Gallon Custom Rimless Mixed Reef 2012-2014 29 Gallon Biocube Reef! Current Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, StevesLED Upgrade, Neptune Apex

07/14/2008, 07:28 PM	#3
jdiddy8384 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 138	I think you should be ok. The return from a sump is just like another powerhead in ur tank, so u can take a power head out or move ur flow around with all of ur powerheads. Cant help with the skimmer footprint question.

07/14/2008, 07:36 PM	#4
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Thanks...Every little bit of info is helping. I plan to get the new tank in the next week or so and want to make sure I am getting quality items and making right decisions...only want to do this one time instead of three like I do with other things. Thanks again...

07/15/2008, 09:00 AM	#5
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	I'm putting in an order today for the Aqua Medic 1000 and OR 2700. Does anyone have any experience with these or know of any reason to use something different? Thanks again, Patrick

07/15/2008, 09:14 AM	#7
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	I am and have been...that is one of the reasons I have asked this question. Some of the research I have done says that the Turboflotor is good. Some of the other things I was looking at was an Euro reef or Aqua C. Price is a concern but not a deciding factor as to which one I will bet getting. If the T1000 is not suitable, I would go with something else. If it is, and it seems like it should be, that is what I will be going with. I am just wondering what other's experiences are, if any, with the T1000. Anything beats the Sea Clone I have.

07/15/2008, 09:44 AM	#8
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	The t1000 is undersized for the system your building so that one is out. I would suggest that you rethink your skimmer plan. My advice would be: Euro-Reef rS135 ASM G-2 Octopus w150 RK2 has good reviews but might be a lil undersized for you. You will need to verify that any skimmer you get will fit the space that you have allotted for it.

07/15/2008, 10:21 AM	#9
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll not be going with the T1000

07/15/2008, 10:38 AM	#10
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Just saw something that caught my eye. If the T1000 is rated to 250 gallons and I am running a 120 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump, why is it undersized?

07/15/2008, 02:12 PM	#12
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	I guess I understand that...seems like there are a lot of ideas about what will work and what won't...

07/15/2008, 09:14 PM	#14
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Thanks Capn...I've been thinking about the same thing...after reading a little more in a few places, it looks like I'll be going with an ASM model or the SWC model...one ordering online and the other from a LFS...Thanks for the words of wisdom... Take care,

07/15/2008, 09:39 PM	#15
whitleyjb Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 116	Lighting seems to be fine as you are not heavy SPS. 30gal sump should work. I think you should keep the 2 K4's as the return will give you some flow, but it is not as adjustable as using powerheads. It is not just the amount of flow, but the direction that is important. I use an ASM G3 skimmer on my 90 and would recommend it. You may be able to pickup a good used skimmer in RC as reefers are always upgrading!

07/16/2008, 07:34 AM	#16
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Thanks Whitleyjb...I was up untill about 2:30 this morning doing more research and came to the same conclusions about the powerheads. I've read countless questions/answers about different skimmers and think I've narrowed it down to four. Unless I hear bad things about one or the other, it may come down to price and footprint size. Still looking at the T1000, ASM G-2(3), SWC MSX 160 and the Aqua C 180. Thanks again, Patrick

07/16/2008, 07:44 AM	#17
whitleyjb Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 116	Footprint is important! Also check height. You want to be able to take the skimmer out to clean it every once in a while. I like my ASM, but I have to completely drain the sump, disconnect the piping and remove the sump to get my skimmer out! The Tunze 9010 might also be a good choice! I am thinking about switching over to make maintenance easier and to get more room in the sump.

07/16/2008, 07:51 AM	#19
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Closed Loop systemn is a new term to me...I might have to look into it. The tank I am looking at is a new one and has two overflows with holes already drilled. Would the closed loop setup be able to utilize these, or will it still need to be drilled?

07/16/2008, 08:37 AM	#21
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Cool...The MSX was what the LFS carries and it seems like it has a good rep from what I've read, but it was hard to find a lot of info on it. I am assuming that the company hasn't been around as long as some of the others..

07/16/2008, 08:51 AM	#22
Fusch13 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Centerville ohio Posts: 7,606	Im planning a 120 gallon build also....i inherited a ASM g4x....and hoping ill be able to squeeze it under the tank, if not ill be building a cabinet to fit my sump and asm.. I plan to also in future put a shallow, 36x36x8 coral tank/ refugium for my frags.... next to show tank.... Im in beginning stages like you. I also plan to do a closed loop system, with 4 1" returns....reeflo dart running the cl, and a om 4-way..... __________________ Gas....Coral......Gas....Coral...ahhh who needs to go anywhere...CORAL!!! Current Tank Info: JBJ rl nano 20, aq ax360z. Still building.....

07/16/2008, 09:22 AM	#24
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Was looking online about the closed loop system and it does seem to be better and nicer all the way around, but I think it's something I'll have to wait on and do more research on at this time. I was talking to my wife last night and she agrees that, sometime in the future, we'll go with a larger tank, 180+, and I'll try to have something ready to go then for the closed loop system. Thanks for the info and ideas.

07/16/2008, 09:37 AM	#25
pocurran Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shakopee, MN Posts: 50	Fusch13...good luck on the build. Hope it all works out well for you...I'm not sure about my fuge yet...The guy at the LFS said I sould only have either live rock, OR live sand, OR algae, but didn't explain why. Most places I have read about them have at least two if not all trhee...