Auto Tank!!

Padrino · 08/27/2008, 04:36 PM

Well as some of you know i am planning to start a 90 gal tank. This is my first reef tank and want to make this system as automatic as possible. I am a mech. Eng and today iat work i was discussing running all components off a PLC with my Electrical Eng. I would like to run the following items but need you to confirm a few things:

Protein skimmer- Runs all the time? even during feeding? Please confirm
artinic lights- to run one hour before the metal halides turn on and one hour after they shut off to mimic sunrise and sundown
Metal Halides- to run from 9 am to 9 pm
Lunar lights- Simulate moon light - to run from 10pm to 8 am
Heater - turn on if temp is below 78ÂºF and shut off if temp is greater than 78ÂºF
3 Powerheads inside tank- Run all the time? possibly use PLC to switch between powerheads turning them on and off to simulate currents
Return Pump- Runs all the time? even during feeding? Please confirm
2 -4 electronic fans- to cool water in the sump if teh temp in sump goes above 78ÂºF

Anything else i missed? What do you guys think about this?

Capt_Cully · 08/27/2008, 05:22 PM

Protein skimmer on all the time (some guys turn them off for feeding certain things like cyclopeeze)

Actinics-not a set rule for 1hr, but yes, on before MH's, off after
My sched Actinics on at 11a, MH on at 1:30p, MH off 9p, Actinics off 11p.

MH's 12hrs may be too long on a new reef. I'd set them for a 5 hr photoperiod at first. Gives tank time to acclimate, and doesn't let algae get outta hand. Then ramp up photoperiod by 1/2hr ever few weeks until you hit desired length of time. Ask around about how long others run their MH's

Lunars, mine come on at 11p off at 8a. So you have the right idea. Some with limited timers just leave them on. LED's won't burn out anytime soon and have low wattage/amp draw.

There's a million different ways to go with PH's, timers, wave makers etc. Irratic flow is best, but to start just plug and aim. You can get more sophisticated as you gain experience and decide what corals you like, and what look you want.

Return, on all the time

Right on with the fans. My reef seems to hold between 79 and 82. I kick the fans on at 81deg. Some people run reefs a little colder. Some go a little warmer. But I'd say on average, 79 is right on the $$$

Sounds like you've done your homework, the most important part of reefkeeping.

If you're looking for automation, don't forget about Auto Top Off units. They keep up with evaporation to keep water salinity on target. AND it'll save you from burning out your return pump if your sump runs dry!

Best of luck!

Padrino · 08/27/2008, 06:43 PM

Yes thank you.
i really try to read about 5-6 hours online a night. i really do not want to buy something and then find out it won't work or i should have gone with a bigger unit. I really appreciate your input and it will really help me when programming the controller.

Right now i am trying to understand the best sump i can get using an external pump and whether or not i should use the 3 baffles that some people use to help elimate bumbles. I would really liek to have a refuge as well so im wondering ifit is worth it to just build a custom acrilic tank.

bolandess · 08/27/2008, 06:51 PM

www.melevsreef.com

TONS of DIY acrylic sump ideas!

Capt_Cully · 08/28/2008, 04:34 AM

cheaper still would be to buy an old tank, drill it (hole bits on ebay for ~$4) and add your own baffles. It can be done for under $35. I've made like 4 or 5 of them. It's the way to go IMO.

Paul B · 08/28/2008, 04:55 AM

My tank is also automatic including one feeding in case I am away or busy and I can't feed the fish. That one feeding in the AM after the lights come on is just pellets and some flakes.
The other feeding is fresh food but I want to get something into the tank a few times a day and I am not home much.
If you plan to use any additives like calcium or Kalk, those also could be added automatically but calcium and Kalk clog small tubes so you have to plan for that.
You should also plan for an emergency like a leak or overflow. I build a cheap water detector which is under my tank. If water gets on the floor, the pumps shut down.
Good luck.
Paul

Padrino · 08/28/2008, 05:02 AM

water detector? i have not seen this before. If this an electrical component and how does it send a signal to the pump? or the power source for that matter?

Paul B · 08/28/2008, 05:11 AM

I built it with a GFCI.
(I am an electrician)
The pumps are plugged into a GFCI. The GFCI has a plastic PVC pipe extending to the floor under the tank. There are wires in the pipe connected from the neutral to the ground.
There is also a barrier under the tank so any water will be contained. If there is a leak, the wires will get wet and turn off the GFCI. I also use this arrangement under my domestic hot water heater my oil burner and my skimmer overflow.
I am sure it is not legal to use a GFCI this way but it is safe and it works. The wires are concealed inside the pipe which is open at the end. I am using the neutral and ground wires, neither one will shock you even though you can't physically touch them anyway.

Padrino · 08/28/2008, 07:49 PM

hmmm, that is an interesting way of doing it. Its pretty understandable but any chance you could post some pictures? You used like galvanized conduit to hide the wire?

rbnice1 · 08/28/2008, 08:23 PM

Padrino I am a controls engineer and was considering doing a small slc500 type system for controls but when you look into the price for the controler and industrial PH and Temp probes and then the relays and wiring to turn everything on and off, it just isnt worth it. You can get a used auqa controller with a dc8 for about 200 bucks. I would look into that if I was you. It really is nice and does everything I would have programed my PLC to do.

rbnice1 · 08/28/2008, 08:25 PM

And Pual I would be interested to hear how your water trip was set up as well. I have all my return pumps and skimmer pumps plugged into a GFI circut.

atvdave · 08/28/2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Padrino
Right now i am trying to understand the best sump i can get using an external pump and whether or not i should use the 3 baffles that some people use to help elimate bumbles. I would really liek to have a refuge as well so im wondering ifit is worth it to just build a custom acrilic tank.

Here's a DIY sump I made from a 65g tank. It would be very easy to add a refuge if you wish.

Padrino · 08/28/2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rbnice1
Padrino I am a controls engineer and was considering doing a small slc500 type system for controls but when you look into the price for the controler and industrial PH and Temp probes and then the relays and wiring to turn everything on and off, it just isnt worth it. You can get a used auqa controller with a dc8 for about 200 bucks. I would look into that if I was you. It really is nice and does everything I would have programed my PLC to do.

I was actually given an allen bradley micrologic 1000 today actually and i can get all the wiring and relays and get it wired at work.. i am not sure but i think i may do this that way everything is controlled.i ts not manual.when teh temp rises to high the fans will go on. timers for all the lights and it could even work as a wavemaker turnion and foff the power heads in side the tank.. not sure what i will do but im seriously considering it

rbnice1 · 08/28/2008, 08:58 PM

The problem is the analog inputs look up what it will cost you for a ph and temp prob. Its way expensive. Where as most controllers will come with both. Not to mention if you go with a neptune you can down load the software for free that will record and graph all your data.

Sorry man. I know what you are wanting to do. I really wanted to do that as well but when you get down to the real cost for everything its cheaper to go with a used controller.

There really is no reson to automate your tank with out being able to read temp and ph.

Everyones Hero · 08/28/2008, 09:16 PM

2 things I think are worth bringing up:

-I've heard you're supposed to turn off the skimmer if you dose the tank with any chemicals because the skimmer will just pull them out of the water.

-Don't leave moon lights on all of the time. I was told that photosynthetic corals need absolute darkness to do their thing. That even the low light emitted by moon lights can hinder photosynthesis.

Other's can either support those 2 things or debunk them.

seapug · 08/28/2008, 10:49 PM

Set up an auto topoff system. No other piece of equipment will save you as much daily maintenance as an ATO. I just set one up on my tank and can't believe I waited two years to do it.

Paul B · 08/29/2008, 04:01 AM

Today I am installing Solar electric on my roof. If I get time later I will try to make a diagram

rbnice1 · 08/29/2008, 08:13 AM

Thanks Paul I appreciate it.

08/27/2008, 04:36 PM	#1
Padrino Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,934	Auto Tank!! Well as some of you know i am planning to start a 90 gal tank. This is my first reef tank and want to make this system as automatic as possible. I am a mech. Eng and today iat work i was discussing running all components off a PLC with my Electrical Eng. I would like to run the following items but need you to confirm a few things: Protein skimmer- Runs all the time? even during feeding? Please confirm artinic lights- to run one hour before the metal halides turn on and one hour after they shut off to mimic sunrise and sundown Metal Halides- to run from 9 am to 9 pm Lunar lights- Simulate moon light - to run from 10pm to 8 am Heater - turn on if temp is below 78ÂºF and shut off if temp is greater than 78ÂºF 3 Powerheads inside tank- Run all the time? possibly use PLC to switch between powerheads turning them on and off to simulate currents Return Pump- Runs all the time? even during feeding? Please confirm 2 -4 electronic fans- to cool water in the sump if teh temp in sump goes above 78ÂºF Anything else i missed? What do you guys think about this?

08/27/2008, 05:22 PM	#2
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	Protein skimmer on all the time (some guys turn them off for feeding certain things like cyclopeeze) Actinics-not a set rule for 1hr, but yes, on before MH's, off after My sched Actinics on at 11a, MH on at 1:30p, MH off 9p, Actinics off 11p. MH's 12hrs may be too long on a new reef. I'd set them for a 5 hr photoperiod at first. Gives tank time to acclimate, and doesn't let algae get outta hand. Then ramp up photoperiod by 1/2hr ever few weeks until you hit desired length of time. Ask around about how long others run their MH's Lunars, mine come on at 11p off at 8a. So you have the right idea. Some with limited timers just leave them on. LED's won't burn out anytime soon and have low wattage/amp draw. There's a million different ways to go with PH's, timers, wave makers etc. Irratic flow is best, but to start just plug and aim. You can get more sophisticated as you gain experience and decide what corals you like, and what look you want. Return, on all the time Right on with the fans. My reef seems to hold between 79 and 82. I kick the fans on at 81deg. Some people run reefs a little colder. Some go a little warmer. But I'd say on average, 79 is right on the $$$ Sounds like you've done your homework, the most important part of reefkeeping. If you're looking for automation, don't forget about Auto Top Off units. They keep up with evaporation to keep water salinity on target. AND it'll save you from burning out your return pump if your sump runs dry! Best of luck! __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

08/27/2008, 06:51 PM	#4
bolandess Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 46	www.melevsreef.com TONS of DIY acrylic sump ideas! __________________ -An hour a day...on RC...keeps dead marine life away!! -- You can have something done... 1. Right 2. Fast 3. Cheap ...pick two. Current Tank Info: 55 not in service, 46 FOWLR

08/28/2008, 04:34 AM	#5
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	cheaper still would be to buy an old tank, drill it (hole bits on ebay for ~$4) and add your own baffles. It can be done for under $35. I've made like 4 or 5 of them. It's the way to go IMO. __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

08/28/2008, 04:55 AM	#6
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	My tank is also automatic including one feeding in case I am away or busy and I can't feed the fish. That one feeding in the AM after the lights come on is just pellets and some flakes. The other feeding is fresh food but I want to get something into the tank a few times a day and I am not home much. If you plan to use any additives like calcium or Kalk, those also could be added automatically but calcium and Kalk clog small tubes so you have to plan for that. You should also plan for an emergency like a leak or overflow. I build a cheap water detector which is under my tank. If water gets on the floor, the pumps shut down. Good luck. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

08/27/2008, 06:43 PM	#3
Padrino Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,934	Yes thank you. i really try to read about 5-6 hours online a night. i really do not want to buy something and then find out it won't work or i should have gone with a bigger unit. I really appreciate your input and it will really help me when programming the controller. Right now i am trying to understand the best sump i can get using an external pump and whether or not i should use the 3 baffles that some people use to help elimate bumbles. I would really liek to have a refuge as well so im wondering ifit is worth it to just build a custom acrilic tank.

08/28/2008, 05:02 AM	#7
Padrino Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,934	water detector? i have not seen this before. If this an electrical component and how does it send a signal to the pump? or the power source for that matter?

08/28/2008, 05:11 AM	#8
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	I built it with a GFCI. (I am an electrician) The pumps are plugged into a GFCI. The GFCI has a plastic PVC pipe extending to the floor under the tank. There are wires in the pipe connected from the neutral to the ground. There is also a barrier under the tank so any water will be contained. If there is a leak, the wires will get wet and turn off the GFCI. I also use this arrangement under my domestic hot water heater my oil burner and my skimmer overflow. I am sure it is not legal to use a GFCI this way but it is safe and it works. The wires are concealed inside the pipe which is open at the end. I am using the neutral and ground wires, neither one will shock you even though you can't physically touch them anyway. __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

08/28/2008, 07:49 PM	#9
Padrino Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,934	hmmm, that is an interesting way of doing it. Its pretty understandable but any chance you could post some pictures? You used like galvanized conduit to hide the wire?

08/28/2008, 08:23 PM	#10
rbnice1 Moved On Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cedar Hill Posts: 3,905	Padrino I am a controls engineer and was considering doing a small slc500 type system for controls but when you look into the price for the controler and industrial PH and Temp probes and then the relays and wiring to turn everything on and off, it just isnt worth it. You can get a used auqa controller with a dc8 for about 200 bucks. I would look into that if I was you. It really is nice and does everything I would have programed my PLC to do.

08/28/2008, 08:25 PM	#11
rbnice1 Moved On Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cedar Hill Posts: 3,905	And Pual I would be interested to hear how your water trip was set up as well. I have all my return pumps and skimmer pumps plugged into a GFI circut.

08/28/2008, 08:58 PM	#14
rbnice1 Moved On Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cedar Hill Posts: 3,905	The problem is the analog inputs look up what it will cost you for a ph and temp prob. Its way expensive. Where as most controllers will come with both. Not to mention if you go with a neptune you can down load the software for free that will record and graph all your data. Sorry man. I know what you are wanting to do. I really wanted to do that as well but when you get down to the real cost for everything its cheaper to go with a used controller. There really is no reson to automate your tank with out being able to read temp and ph.

08/28/2008, 09:16 PM	#15
Everyones Hero Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Leonardtown, MD Posts: 1,154	2 things I think are worth bringing up: -I've heard you're supposed to turn off the skimmer if you dose the tank with any chemicals because the skimmer will just pull them out of the water. -Don't leave moon lights on all of the time. I was told that photosynthetic corals need absolute darkness to do their thing. That even the low light emitted by moon lights can hinder photosynthesis. Other's can either support those 2 things or debunk them.

08/28/2008, 10:49 PM	#16
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	Set up an auto topoff system. No other piece of equipment will save you as much daily maintenance as an ATO. I just set one up on my tank and can't believe I waited two years to do it. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

08/29/2008, 04:01 AM	#17
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	Today I am installing Solar electric on my roof. If I get time later I will try to make a diagram __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

08/29/2008, 08:13 AM	#18
rbnice1 Moved On Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cedar Hill Posts: 3,905	Thanks Paul I appreciate it.