Why use power heads when you can go closed loop?

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 07:58 PM

If your tank uses plate glass obviously.

Wouldn't it be much more cost effective to just drill a couple holes, add two bulkheads, $15 worth of PVC and a $60 pump versus hundreds on multiple powerheads?

Yeah. I'm new. If I'm missing a key element here, I apologize. lol

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:06 PM

A closed loop will cost a little more than that. $60 isn't going to get you very far in the pump world. My closed loop pump cost me $385.

kfisc · 09/10/2008, 08:08 PM

Vs. the cost of just happening to have the right powertools on hand and the skill and experience to use them, not to mention the extra cash when the first risky attempt goes south? Or for that matter, voiding the warranty on a new tank?

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:16 PM

I was under the impression that you have no head loss with a closed loop system. Meaning a middle of the road pump would churn those waters nicely. ???

For my broke college student butt, I can't even afford a new tank. I have TONS of experience with any hand/power tool you can imagine. I would feel quite confident drilling out my $50 used tank. If it cracks, yeah that wouldn't be good. But hey. Atleast it wasn't a huge investment. I could buy another one for 50 bucks, try again, and still be in cheaper than 2 or 3 $50 powerheads.

LisaJill · 09/10/2008, 08:22 PM

As a non-diy'er (I didn't even have a good grasp of attaching tubing to my Mag 5 to help with the water changes!) there's no way I would ever drill anything; I'd rather buy 50 powerheads than have to drill.

The cost of finding good labor that has experience with this and then paying them can be quite a bit higher than few powerheads.

Then again, I have an HOB skimmer and refugium and no sump. I may be quite on the extreme end of "scared to do that" in this hobby.

When I someday have a larger system, it'll have to be built and installed by someone else. I can start the tank, I can maintain it, I can not put the pieces together.

Just one point of view; being a reefer =/= being diy-savvy.

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:25 PM

You don't have to use several $150 powerheads. I run and love Koralia powerheads and you can get 3 1200gph powerheads for $150 or less.

jpa0741 · 09/10/2008, 08:26 PM

You can move alot more water cheaper with powerheads then you can with a closed loop. The cost to run external pumps are alot more.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jpa0741
You can move alot more water cheaper with powerheads then you can with a closed loop. The cost to run external pumps are alot more.

Really? For example a Mag 7 uses 65 watts, 3 power heads that move similar amounts of water would use less power than that?

The more I research, I see that powerheads aren't as expensive as I thought. I could have swore they were up and over $100 each. But I was obviously on crack.

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:34 PM

A Koralia 4 moves 1200gph at 12 watts

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:34 PM

So you could run 5 Koralia 4's at 6000gph compared to one mag 7 at 700 gph plus head loss.

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:35 PM

I don't know how much of a cost savings you'll get, but there are arguments for both.

I like the idea of not having a lot of powerheads taking up space in the tank, and also no wires hanging in the tank (eliminating the chance for stray current). However, I've also heard arguments that state the flow from the closed loop outlets is too direct for corals liking.

Like I said, I don't think there is much of a cost savings.... $300.00+ for a pump plus an Ocean's Motions 4 way to alternate the flow. You're right up there with a nice Tunze or Vortech system.

If your looking for a closed loop with a cost savings... try www.melevsreef.com and check out his DIY system for smaller tanks.

I'm currently planning on trying out a closed loop on my new 220 gallon tank, and going to attempt drilling 11 holes in the tank myself.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:36 PM

Again, I don't think you get head loss with a closed loop system.

But holy geez. I get your point. Soooo.... one must ask... why would any used closed loop?!

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by firebirdude
Really? For example a Mag 7 uses 65 watts, 3 power heads that move similar amounts of water would use less power than that?

The more I research, I see that powerheads aren't as expensive as I thought. I could have swore they were up and over $100 each. But I was obviously on crack.

No you weren't on crack. GOOD powerheads or stream pumps can cost well over $100.

Honestly, I've used the koralia's on my 90g tank thus far and their flow is nothing to write home about.

However, I'll be interested to see how the Koralia Magnums perform... over $100

Another way to save on some flow is to mod some maxi-jets... but it all depends on what you intend to house... you may not need crazy jet engine flow.

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:38 PM

Just as tswifty said alot of people don't like the wires and chance of stray voltage. but you can spend what you want on either setup and it is all personal preference but you can save money the powerhead route.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tswifty8
and going to attempt drilling 11 holes in the tank myself.

That's what I'm talking about!!

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:40 PM

Yeah unless I crack it on hole 10.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:41 PM

Swiss cheese tank FTW!

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LisaJill
As a non-diy'er (I didn't even have a good grasp of attaching tubing to my Mag 5 to help with the water changes!) there's no way I would ever drill anything; I'd rather buy 50 powerheads than have to drill.

The cost of finding good labor that has experience with this and then paying them can be quite a bit higher than few powerheads.

Then again, I have an HOB skimmer and refugium and no sump. I may be quite on the extreme end of "scared to do that" in this hobby. When I someday have a larger system, it'll have to be built and installed by someone else. I can start the tank, I can maintain it, I can not put the pieces together.

Just one point of view; being a reefer =/= being diy-savvy.

Aww don't be scurred... Sumps, fuges, overflows, reactors, additives... a lot of this stuff just takes some courage to try out. Most of it isn't very difficult at all. We just make it sound scary.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tswifty8
Another way to save on some flow is to mod some maxi-jets... but it all depends on what you intend to house... you may not need crazy jet engine flow.

Any coral I can keep alive with 48" 4x53W T5's. Should be just about anything short of SPS.

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by firebirdude
Swiss cheese tank FTW!

Oh yeah... this new tank has all kinds of DIY fun.

Curve · 09/10/2008, 08:44 PM

I just drilled a big hole in my 225 and I'm thinking about drilling a few more.

firebirdude · 09/10/2008, 08:52 PM

Jeez..... you're not kidding! Good luck with ALLLLL that!

Tswifty · 09/10/2008, 08:54 PM

Thanks.

The tank has 2 requirements...

It's gotta be silent... and the flows gotta rip!

Dino · 09/10/2008, 09:06 PM

As most have said there are a few drawbacks to CLs, one is cost. While a "cheap" pump might work cheap pumps are often either really noisy or run really hot, both of which aren't good. Another drawback is the amount of juice external pumps draw, you can use power heads and draw many times less electricity than most quality external pumps. And yet another drawback is over time, months-years things will grow inside the pipes slowly reducing the flow. Powerheads are fairly simple to clean, pull them out of the tank, clean them off and run them in some vinegar and they're good to go. A whole CL assembly, not so much. And another drawback is that on a CL everything is external - while it makes the tank look a little cleaner if something breaks, or comes loose, well...you're going to have water on the floor.

Not to say CLs are bad - generally the larger tank you go the more their benefits start outweighing their downsides (and the more it starts becoming cost effective to run one).

72884 · 09/10/2008, 09:32 PM

Going to empty the tank and moved it and finally go close loop.

I vote close loop since I'm tired of powerheads now.

09/10/2008, 07:58 PM	#1
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Why use power heads when you can go closed loop? If your tank uses plate glass obviously. Wouldn't it be much more cost effective to just drill a couple holes, add two bulkheads, $15 worth of PVC and a $60 pump versus hundreds on multiple powerheads? Yeah. I'm new. If I'm missing a key element here, I apologize. lol

09/10/2008, 08:06 PM	#2
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	A closed loop will cost a little more than that. $60 isn't going to get you very far in the pump world. My closed loop pump cost me $385. __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

09/10/2008, 08:16 PM	#4
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	I was under the impression that you have no head loss with a closed loop system. Meaning a middle of the road pump would churn those waters nicely. ??? For my broke college student butt, I can't even afford a new tank. I have TONS of experience with any hand/power tool you can imagine. I would feel quite confident drilling out my $50 used tank. If it cracks, yeah that wouldn't be good. But hey. Atleast it wasn't a huge investment. I could buy another one for 50 bucks, try again, and still be in cheaper than 2 or 3 $50 powerheads. Last edited by firebirdude; 09/10/2008 at 08:23 PM.

09/10/2008, 08:25 PM	#6
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	You don't have to use several $150 powerheads. I run and love Koralia powerheads and you can get 3 1200gph powerheads for $150 or less. __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

09/10/2008, 08:34 PM	#9
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	A Koralia 4 moves 1200gph at 12 watts __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

09/10/2008, 08:08 PM	#3
kfisc Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,020	Vs. the cost of just happening to have the right powertools on hand and the skill and experience to use them, not to mention the extra cash when the first risky attempt goes south? Or for that matter, voiding the warranty on a new tank?

09/10/2008, 08:22 PM	#5
LisaJill Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Hillsboro, OR Posts: 248	As a non-diy'er (I didn't even have a good grasp of attaching tubing to my Mag 5 to help with the water changes!) there's no way I would ever drill anything; I'd rather buy 50 powerheads than have to drill. The cost of finding good labor that has experience with this and then paying them can be quite a bit higher than few powerheads. Then again, I have an HOB skimmer and refugium and no sump. I may be quite on the extreme end of "scared to do that" in this hobby. When I someday have a larger system, it'll have to be built and installed by someone else. I can start the tank, I can maintain it, I can not put the pieces together. Just one point of view; being a reefer =/= being diy-savvy.

09/10/2008, 08:26 PM	#7
jpa0741 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MI Posts: 1,392	You can move alot more water cheaper with powerheads then you can with a closed loop. The cost to run external pumps are alot more.

09/10/2008, 08:35 PM	#11
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	I don't know how much of a cost savings you'll get, but there are arguments for both. I like the idea of not having a lot of powerheads taking up space in the tank, and also no wires hanging in the tank (eliminating the chance for stray current). However, I've also heard arguments that state the flow from the closed loop outlets is too direct for corals liking. Like I said, I don't think there is much of a cost savings.... $300.00+ for a pump plus an Ocean's Motions 4 way to alternate the flow. You're right up there with a nice Tunze or Vortech system. If your looking for a closed loop with a cost savings... try www.melevsreef.com and check out his DIY system for smaller tanks. I'm currently planning on trying out a closed loop on my new 220 gallon tank, and going to attempt drilling 11 holes in the tank myself.

09/10/2008, 08:36 PM	#12
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Again, I don't think you get head loss with a closed loop system. But holy geez. I get your point. Soooo.... one must ask... why would any used closed loop?!

09/10/2008, 08:38 PM	#14
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	Just as tswifty said alot of people don't like the wires and chance of stray voltage. but you can spend what you want on either setup and it is all personal preference but you can save money the powerhead route. __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

09/10/2008, 08:40 PM	#16
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	Yeah unless I crack it on hole 10. __________________ "Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover

09/10/2008, 08:41 PM	#17
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Swiss cheese tank FTW!

09/10/2008, 08:44 PM	#21
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	I just drilled a big hole in my 225 and I'm thinking about drilling a few more. __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

09/10/2008, 08:52 PM	#22
firebirdude User and Abuser Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,836	Jeez..... you're not kidding! Good luck with ALLLLL that!

09/10/2008, 08:54 PM	#23
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	Thanks. The tank has 2 requirements... It's gotta be silent... and the flows gotta rip! __________________ "Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover

09/10/2008, 09:06 PM	#24
Dino Freak of Nature Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Finding my way back to the boondocks Posts: 11,048	As most have said there are a few drawbacks to CLs, one is cost. While a "cheap" pump might work cheap pumps are often either really noisy or run really hot, both of which aren't good. Another drawback is the amount of juice external pumps draw, you can use power heads and draw many times less electricity than most quality external pumps. And yet another drawback is over time, months-years things will grow inside the pipes slowly reducing the flow. Powerheads are fairly simple to clean, pull them out of the tank, clean them off and run them in some vinegar and they're good to go. A whole CL assembly, not so much. And another drawback is that on a CL everything is external - while it makes the tank look a little cleaner if something breaks, or comes loose, well...you're going to have water on the floor. Not to say CLs are bad - generally the larger tank you go the more their benefits start outweighing their downsides (and the more it starts becoming cost effective to run one). __________________ Cody I will love and miss you until the last beat of my heart Harley & Rusty.

09/10/2008, 09:32 PM	#25
72884 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tyndall AFB, FL Posts: 145	Going to empty the tank and moved it and finally go close loop. I vote close loop since I'm tired of powerheads now. __________________ ----- Current Tank Info: 72" 125gallon reef tank & 60" 30gallon reef tank