Help with submersible pump

[Patow]

I finally got my system up and running today. I'm using a submersed Mag Drive 3600gph as my return pump in my sump.

My sump is an AGA 90, and the pump is sitting on the bottom of the tank.

When I turned this pump on for the first time today, it is REALLY loud. When I move the pump off the bottom of the tank, it is significantly better.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to quiet down this pump. Maybe putting some rubber feet on it? Anyone have any experience with this pump that they can share?

If I can't get the noise down to a reasonable level, I may have to look at another pump. Anyone know of a better quiet submersible pump that can move that much water?

Thanks!

[James77]

Thats a lot of pump for a 90- Why do you need that much water for a return? Is that the only flow in the tank, and how is your overflow handling that much?

I would do an Eheim for the return, and a closed loop or powerheads for flow.

[Kdocimo90]

yeah i use 2400 gph for my 210 gallon tank and people said that it was too much

[Cadu]

really a lot of flow for a 90 gal.
something around 900 or 1000 gph will fit a 90 gal better.
i like eheim and tunze pumps, they are quiet and very reliable.

[Patow]

Here is a link to my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ighlight=Patow

I have about 17ft of headloss in this system. I tested the 3600gph today, and without dialing it back at all, my drain was keeping up. It was moving more water than I need, so once I dial it back, this is about the right size of pump for my system. I might go with a slightly smaller pump, but not significant.

This pump is going to be next to a bedroom, so I want it to be as quiet as possible. Ideally something whisper quiet.

I'm not sure the Tunze Master Electric Recirculation Pump will be big enough for this system. Rated at 2100GPH.

Eheim doesn't seem to have anything that big either.

Anyone have a Danner Pro HY-Drive pump?

[weluvfish54]

mine did that before i had a mounting bracket with suction cups.

[jpkboca]

wow what a pump for a 90.

Put some slilicon beads on the bottom of the pum to act as a mount, wont vibrate as much.

[sjm817]

How do you have that Mag36 plumbed? You need very large plumbing like 2" dia to get good flow from it. You should measure how much is coming down the drain and see what the actual GPH is. You can see how long it takes to fill up a 1 or 2 G bucket and do the math. See how much actual flow you have and that will make a pump choice easier.

BTW, you can swap in a mag24 impeller and convert the pump to a mag24.

[Patow]

Here is what the headloss calculator estimates for my system with a Mag 24:

Vertical length in feet : 10ft
Horizontal length in feet : 20ft
Pipe diameter in inches 0.75
Choose your pump: Mag24
Number of 90 degree elbows: 2
Number of 45 degree elbows: 2
Number of ball valves: 2
Number of pipe exits: 1
Number of pipe entrances: 1

Total losses are 15.66 feet of head pressure, or 6.77 PSI. with a flow rate of 511 GPH.

With a 90 display, that's a little better than 5x turnover for my display with the Mag24. I'm probably closer to 6-8x turnover with the Mag 36. Probably overkill.

Here is the setup. Using 3/4" spaflex hose to connect to the pump with a 1" fitting. Line is then connected to a 3/4" bulkhead on the sump tank.





Really want to avoid using an external pump if possible.

Even with the Quiet One 4000 (high head), the calculator says I'd get: Total losses are 11.82 feet of head pressure, or 5.11 PSI. with a flow rate of 278 GPH. That's 3x turnover.

The key is to find a submersible pump that is quiet. I don't mind spending a few bucks for a quiet system.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!

[KRASHPD]

The Magdrive is a fine pump. You do have a lot of headloss so if your drain is keeping up then it sounds like it will work. To quiet the pump, go to petsmart and get some of the blue filter material that people use in between baffles all the time. Cut a sheet of it to fit exactly under the footprint of the pump. If it is still too noisy, cut another sheet and put it under as well. The filter material is not harmful to the tank and can be changed out if necessary pretty easily.

[Patow]

I just got back from my LFS, and they suggested a similar approach. Either foam or rubber (reef safe), under the pump.

I got some rubber feet to put under the pump to see if that helps.

If that doesn't work, I'll try the blue filter foam from petsmart.

Thanks!

[sjm817]

The 3/4" plumbing is putting an enormous amount of back pressure on the pump and reducing the flow to a small fraction of its capacity. 3/4" is a big restriction even on a Mag9. You could use a smaller pump with a better plumbing setup and get the same or better flow rate. Since you have the Mag36 already, I would try the Mag24 impeller and see if it makes it any quieter.

[Montezuma]

Im using an Eheim 1262 (900+) GPH on my tank, and I sometimes feel like its too much flow. I plan to going with around 400 GPH.

[sdc19982002]

I cut a piece of 1" plastic hose in half long ways and layed 2 pieces on the sump floor and set the pump on it. It worked really well for me.

[Patow]

I just took the Mag36 back, and decided to try the Quiet One 4000 (high head).

Just hooked it up, and am getting some flow, but not a whole lot. Probably 1-2x turnover. A little bit more would be good, but not a lot.

In terms of noise, this pump is 100x better. I can't even hear it from the bedroom, so we're getting close.

I was thinking of possibly running 2 Quiet One 4000 (high head) pumps like this:



I would think this would get me a little more flow, as well as add redundancy to my system in case of pump failure.

Anyone tried this before? Am I off base in assuming I'll get a bit more flow with dual pumps running up the same return line?


Thanks for all the help!

[sjm817]

That small 3/4" line is killing you. How hard would it be to run new line?

That QO "High Head" is still only rated for 13' which is not much different than any other submersible of that range. I would bet an Eheim 1262 would outflow it. Can you get an Ocean Runner 6500? It is rated for 1700 GPH.

[Patow]

I ran 3/4" line because the AGA 90 with overflow came with a 3/4" bulkhead for the return (pre-drilled). I don't think increasing the line between the sump and the display will help, unless I increase the bulkhead size into the display tank. That's really where the bottleneck would be I think. Correct me if I'm wrong?



I'm not looking for a ton of turnover in the display. I'll be supplementing flow in the display with 4 powerheads on the RKE wavemaker, so I'm not too worried about flow. Even if I had 2-3x turnover, I think I'd be okay. I'm very close with the QO 4000.

I'm not sure I can get the OR6500 or Eheim 1262 locally. Maybe I'll take a zip over to the LFS and see what they have.

[sjm817]

Increasing the diameter of the return leading up to the tank will help a ton. The resistance in flow is cumulative. Having larger diameter plumbing for most of the run would be a huge improvement. Instead of trying to use a big pump to force water through a small pipe, a smaller pump can be used on larger pipe. I'd use 1" at a minimum.

[Patow]

Okay, actually changing the return line is a bit of a pain, but not a huge ordeal. Just have to pull out the old hose, and run a new line.

I have a 3/4" bulkhead on my sump as well. I'd prefer not to have to re-drill the tank to fit a larger bulkhead. I'll need to find fittings to reduce the line at each bulkhead to 3/4", and I'd end up with a 3/4" bottleneck at the sump bulkhead, and another at the display bulkhead. I could run any diameter pipe in between (assuming I can find the proper bulkhead connections).

My drain is 1.25", would it make sense to make the return the same, or would 1" suffice? Most pumps I'd be using have a 1" fitting, so I would assume that should be sufficient.

With a 1" line, and the QO4000 pump, I'm getting close to 4x turnover in the display. I think that should be more than enough.

I would assume that going to 1" return would also help eliminate pump noise due to less back-pressure as well?

Thanks for all the advice Scott. Wish I had of asked this question a month ago. That's the way it goes though....

[Patow]

Going to need some help with the plumbing for a 1" line.



Not quite sure what fitting I can use to connect this 1" hose to the 3/4" bulkhead. Do I need to attach a length of 3/4" hose, and then use a 3/4" - 1" adapter?

Thanks!

[sjm817]

I'm a bit lost. If you have a bulkhead in the sump, why are you using a submersible pump? Where is the bulkhead?

For plumbing size, the short answer is the bigger the better. Bigger plumbing allows more flow, less restriction. You would use bulkheads that dont have built in hose barbs. Fit the size hose barb to the bulkhead that is needed.

[Patow]

You can see where the return bulkhead on the sump is in this pic:





Not really in a position to allow me to use an external pump (that I can think of), so I'm trying to stick with a submersible. I could bypass the bulkhead all together and just attach the return line right to the pump in the sump. Not ideal, but would eliminate 2 90 degree elbows. I just thought this would make for a cleaner install.

[sjm817]

Honestly, I still dont get it. I look at the pics and cant tell what is what.

[Patow]

Sorry man, not the greatest pictures.

See if these help:

Entire Sump:



Return section:



I originally had a 90 degree elbow (3/4") attached to the inside of the of bulkhead in the return section, and the pump was sitting on the bottom of the tank right below the bulkhead (about 1" off the side of the tank). I found this was rattling the sides of the tank a bit, so I then attached a straight section of hose to the bulkhead, and moved the 90 degree elbow so that it was now right in the middle of the return section. This way, the pump would sit exactly in the middle of the return section.

My 1.25" drain line is t'd so that it runs to both my skimmer and fuge, with ball valves to control flow.







Does this help?

[sjm817]

Yes. That helps. I would just connect the tubing to the pump without the extra bulkheads. This would make it easier to run the larger tubing as well. Use the 1.25" stuff if you have it. Keep the plumbing as smooth, simple, unrestricted as you can. Use connection points when necessary, but no more that you have to.