Do I have ich?

[skimmer247]

I have a 20 gallon long with a small ocellaris and a royal gramma. They have both been in the tank for 2 weeks and are eating well. Today, all of a sudden I noticed them both start rubbing up against the rock and my powerjet as if they were scratching. I see a few tiny white dots on them (almost looks like tiny specs of salt) and don't know what to do. My few soft corals are doing perfect, and the only problem with my water parameters is a small battle with high nitrates (20-25ppm.)

I started plumbing a sump yesterday but stopped (my DIY overflow wasnt cutting it so I ordered on online today) and had a theory that me fiddling with the tank caused stress...

Will a blood (fire) shrimp clean off my fish, will my nitrates cause a shrimp problems? What medication can I use that won't kill my cuc or corals (xenia, shrooms, zoas.)

I feed frozen brine shrimp, I read somewhere about soaking in garlic would help... What can you tell me about this?

Any other suggestions?

[ILoveReefer]

It sounds like you have ich but I can't be to certain without pictures.

Stress is a big factor with ich. Holding off on the sump is a good idea. I would add a cave or two for the fish to hide if you dont already have any hiding spots. The less stress the fish are subjected to the better.

Blood shrimp will not remove ich from the fish. No shrimp will rid the fish from ich.

Consider switching your frozen food to frozen mysis. There are alot of other good food choices out there also. Brine shrimp have little nutritional value.

Soaking the food in garlic isn't proven to help the fish fend off illness or aid in it's recovery. It's also not disproven. I treat my fish food with garlic whenever there's any sign of illness in any of the fish. It doesn't hurt anything in the tank, Fish, coral, or inverts. So it's worth trying IMO.

Their are 2 common treatment's for ich and both require the fish to be removed from the display tank to a quarantine tank.
Do a search here on RC for "copper treatment" and "hyposalinity."

[areze]

garlic has a main benefit of encouraging appetite. often getting a sick fish to eat is half the battle, hopefully the hard half. if they eat, they atleast have a chance to fight it. no eat, no chance.

if garlic does happen to promote a slime coat and boost immune system, thats cool too.

[nikon187]

i use garlic every time i feed for the past 2yrs.(selcon too)

[Ehaze]

Get a bare bottom tank running (10gal with old tank water), toss some copper in, they should all live (put ALL your fish into it). you can use hypo, but I like the for sure thing.

Leave them in copper for 2 week, then do a good water change (more main tank water there will still be 50% copper left) leave them in for another two weeks. By this time the life cycle of ick should be over (no host, = death).

I have saved MANY tangs (even deathCO tangs.) doing this before hand, if it is a new fish, two weeks for QT, then into the display.

[skimmer247]

So I should buy a 10 gallon, fill it with water from my current tank, then add the fish and correct amount of copper and let it sit for 2 weeks, while feeding frozen mysis that has been "marinated" in garlic. Then after 2 weeks, change 5 gallons of quarantine tank water with current tank water and discard the water i took out of the QT and let sit for 2 more weeks and fish/tank will be ich free? How much copepr do I add, or does it vary from brand to brand and indicate on the bottle?

Parts left out...

I should probably put some pvc hideouts in the QT and run it with a powerhead for flow right?

After taking 10 gallons of current tank water out, I add newly mixed saltwater into my current tank to fill it back up, right? Then after the first 2 weeks do the same with the 5 gallon water change?

I can be adding corals/inverts/getting my sump up to par with my current tank while this process is happening with no problems right?

Hmmm....

[ILoveReefer]

Originally posted by Ehaze
Get a bare bottom tank running (10gal with old tank water), toss some copper in, they should all live (put ALL your fish into it). you can use hypo, but I like the for sure thing.

Leave them in copper for 2 week, then do a good water change (more main tank water there will still be 50% copper left) leave them in for another two weeks. By this time the life cycle of ick should be over (no host, = death).

I have saved MANY tangs (even deathCO tangs.) doing this before hand, if it is a new fish, two weeks for QT, then into the display.

I agree with everything stated except the time period. Marine ich can last in an aquarium for 6 to 8 weeks without a host. 6 weeks is minimum.

[Ehaze]

Well, I use cupramine, It states.. 16 drops or 1ML, the first 48hrs, then after that 48 hrs is up, then dose again. I normaly do 16 drops, then 5 more 48hrs later (on a 10gal tank), because copper test kits suck.

I like Cuprimine because... you can remove it with just carbon! so it works very well, and you can still use your equip(in a reef/inverts), used for heating/powerheads in the barebottom 10gal qt tank.

Ya, sorry for not telling you that. (you can / will need PVC hideouts) and a powerhead (I use a power head that you can put a little tube in so it can defuse bubbles for more 02.)

Ya, your display you can add more invets/corals. just make sure you do a dip with the corals, to help not getting any coral STDs

Yep, take 10 out for the QT, so there will be less shock/stess on the fish. mix 10gals of fresh saltwater. then after two weeks toss 5 gals of QT water out, and put 5gals of tankwater in the QT, mix 5 gals more fresh saltwater for the main tank.

[Beach Magnolia]

I may be mistaken, but isn't part of the life cycle of the ich in the water column? If that's correct, then wouldn't taking 5 gallons of tank water out of the main display for the QT tank open the door to the possibility of re-introducing ich? Granted there's still copper in there, but it's at 50%. Would that be enough to take care of it?

I've done the copper route and the natural route with a couple bad bouts of ich. The QT tank, copper route, in my opinion, further stressed an already stressed fish and I lost him. Second time I left the fish in the display tank, fed really good food to try to increase his health/immune system, added a cleaner shrimp, did BIG water changes once a week, and added a natural supplement I got at a LFS to increase slime coat. The fish recovered much faster, no stress, no problems. I continued with that strategy for several weeks past the time the ich appeared to be gone. No problems with any of the other fish. No further outbreaks in the past year. Just my experience.

[cdness]

I understand the additional stress that can be caused by adding copper right away. If ich shows it's face in my tank (or when I should say) I will use copper, but I'll give the fish a day with very dim light to get used to the new surroundings. Then add the copper to treat the ich.

I think both Hypo and Copper have their downfalls and risks. They are both able to work. Hypo is just more difficult to maintain and you need to be VERY precise. That's why I'll try copper if/when it does show up.

Just remember, if you treat with copper, don't ever put an invert in that tank. I have heard the copper will stick around and can kill them very quickly...