DIY Calcium, DOW flake substitutes, whats reef safe?

[Reefer08]

Whats reef safe that can be used as calcium in our reef tanks?? Peladow and Dowflake are both no longer reef safe (bromide issues). What can we use for calcium??


Is All Clear (found at pool supply stores) reef safe?


Thanks....

[maroun.c]

I recently bought Medical Grade Calcium chloride and MG chloride Hexahydrate, in addition to Epsom salt. Their QC was amazing 0.000x for Nitrates nitrites Heavy metals phosphates.... posted the QC for Randy and he said is was excellent to use. Still price was a bit prohibitive (60 usd/1kg Ca 70 for Ca and 15 for Epsom) Still with my current load I'm sure these will last me very long.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The materials sold by the suppliers linked below is likely to be fine, but you may not be able to find any suitable material at a home center or pool store.

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/sh...owspecials=124

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Calciu.../c1/index.html

FWIW, ordinary Dowflake is fine for boosting salt mixes like Instant Ocean, just not for regular daily supplementation.

[falconut]

When did all this happen? I've been using Prestone Driveway Heat.



I researched this about a couple years ago and was told it was safe for our reefs. I managed to find find it at HD about a year ago and stocked up. Is it no longer safe?

[Reefer08]

Yeah its no longer safe since they now include bromide in the mix. Its fine for boosting calcium levels in a fresh batch of salt mix but not for daily supplementation since the bromide would increase in amount daily.

[onano]

I purchased Tetra Flake. Not sure if its ant better than the Dow. I have been using it for over a year and see no ill effects.

[virginiadiver69]

The thread in the chemistry forum tempers some of the fear of Dow products reef use.
The long and short of it is... as long as you do regular water changes you will be fine.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

as long as you do regular water changes you will be fine.

I don't think that was the conclusion. I think there is some level of risk/experimentation involved.

[virginiadiver69]

Your right....I didn't mean that as a conclusion.
I guess I just got the impression that it wasn't a whole lot to worry about...so I don't.

[Dyraxe]

Hello, I got a question for some of the more experienced guys here (Randy). I called around to a few local distributors and found a few different calcium brands that seem to be a lot better then Dow.
I know that the Tetra FCC food grade is O.K. to use but it is expensive. My question is about the briners Grade. This is a cal that is in fact used for food consumption and is cheaper then the FCC Food grade. To me it seems that tetra briner and fcc food grade is the same cal but I think they have to pay to get it tested and approved so the untested is call briners but its the same thing. Would you agree?
I also found a Lab grade cal by Malinckrodt which is about 5 to 6 times more expensive but this is suppose to be the best there is. Have you or anyone else ever tried the Tetra or Malinckrodt?

[lakee911]

Thanks for the info.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know that the Tetra FCC food grade is O.K. to use but it is expensive. My question is about the briners Grade. This is a cal that is in fact used for food consumption and is cheaper then the FCC Food grade. To me it seems that tetra briner and fcc food grade is the same cal but I think they have to pay to get it tested and approved so the untested is call briners but its the same thing. Would you agree?

Assuming it does not have the bromide in it that Dow has (even in their food grades), then I'd guess that food grades will be OK.

It does appear that the "typical' impurities for briners grade match their FCC grade.

http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Produc...troduction.aqf

You might check this post from the Bulk Reef Supply people about their experiment with Tetra claicum chloride:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2#post13514182

[Dyraxe]

That was Tetra made in China. If you buy Tetra make sure it was made in Louisiana. It will mix clear if it's from US. In China I heard they just pile the Cal right on the floor because their laws are less strict, I am not sure if it was iron or dirt or both but either way I wouldn't put that into my tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do you know that was Tetra made in China?

[Snarkys]

It is my understanding that they do use some Chinese import. When i received my samples I was told the plant here in the US was running again and I was pretty adamant that I wanted material from that plant but I can not guarantee that is what I received. My concern would be that it would be very hard for the average consumer to really know the where it is coming from or the quality from any source for that matter. Most people rely solely on advice they get on forums like this one.

I guess at the very minimum I would mix up any brand calcium in a clear container and evaluate it visually before I'd use it. However visual evaluation doesn't really tell you a whole lot about how reef safe a product is. Some contaminates probably wouldn't have any negative effect right away, they may have to build up over time . After six months of using a product most people would feel pretty confident in their choice and would not suspect this product when their tank starts its gradual decent in health.

I think we all got lucky with Dow but I have to say after looking at tons of different manufactures and getting some pretty strait answers directly from them. I would really think long and hard about using any brand tech grade material. The standards for tech grade and the plant is produced in are almost non existent since the primary role for this product is to spread all over roads for deicing or dust control.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think we all got lucky with Dow

I don't think it was just luck. I did a pretty careful chemical analysis to show that at least the batch I bought was fine and exactly matched brands sold by hobby companies:

Purity of Calcium Chloride
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/chem.htm

That involved way more analysis than is required for any commercial grade of calcium chloride.

FWIW, Peladow and things made from it, like Prestone Driveway heat have shown the brown precipitate and folks have used it OK for years, but there is no telling exactly what it is of what else might be in any of these. Most likely iron oxide, which is no concern.

Copper is among the things I'd be most concerned with, and aside from my analysis for it in the brands I tested, I've not heard of a copper spec for any material sold by anyone, aside from a measure of total heavy metals. Ammonia would be another concern with a similar comment with respec tto specifications.

[Snarkys]

Im sorry, I meant lucky that Dow produced a tech grade that was not only suitable but also widely available. The community was also lucky that someone qualified like yourself took the time to prove it was safe : )

I have also experienced the small amount of material that settles out on the bottom with the dow flake and peladow but this is a small fraction of the residue found in most of the other samples we received from various manufacturers. Certainly there is limited information to be gained from visual information like this but some of the samples i wouldn't use in a million years based on only visual inspection.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, thanks.

[Dyraxe]

I called Tetra and asked them.

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
How do you know that was Tetra made in China?

I talked to a distributor this week again and he is sending me a special data analysis not available on the website of exactly everything that is found in the Briners Grade. I will post it here when I get it. Also after talking to him the Briners Grade is in FACT the exact same thing as the FCC food grade but it has not been tested so it can be sold cheaper because the test and approval costs money.

[Reefer08]

dyraxe where did you buy your tetra? Is there anything anymore thats reef safe over the counter for calcium that we dont have to buy online??

[falconut]

Did the Prestone Driveway Heat always contain bromide or is this something that's been added recently? My batch is over a year old.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dow stop removing it from all its products a couple of years ago. So all Dow products have it now. Whether yours does or not depends on when it was made.

I called Tetra and asked them.

Do you work with the Bulk Reef people? I didn't understand how you would know where they got the material from.

[Dyraxe]

I do not work for any company of the sort. I have seen for myself a batch of Tetra that came out dirty looking and called to find out why. I just assumed Bulk reef got the same batch as me from the looks of that test they did. I can only assume that it was the same stuff due to the fact that when I mixed mine up it looked the same. It really looks like dirt is in it but it is Iron. I also know of a person who is using the dirty stuff that I gave him and so far he has not had any problems yet. I myself would Not use or trust Tetra until I know exactly what is in it. I am waiting on more info from them I will hand it over to you to inspect for yourself as soon as I get it.

as for Bromide the Tetra has less then 25ppm says Larry Williams Tetra sales rep.

[Dyraxe]

double post FTL

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just assumed Bulk reef got the same batch as me from the looks of that test they did.

OK, thanks. That makes sense now.